Time for a mutiny yet? MCPS = crummy math, no grammar, poor writing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach older students and the grammatical and spelling errors that occur early in the writing process are often a part of the struggle writers experience as they try to figure out exactly what they want to say and how to say it. As they go through prewriting and drafting, often these issues are cleared up.

It's important NOT to focus on editing until the very end of the writing process. If a writer feels writing is all about good grammar and spelling s/he will fixate on writing correct and safe and boring sentences because sentences with complex and new ideas are HARDER to write, and s/he will avoid that out of the fear of making mistakes. You will set your child up to be a very average writer if this is what you obsess over.

Elementary students should be taught spelling and grammar, but it should not be their primary focus.

I don't know where you teach, but many of the 9th graders I've had in the past in my SS schools couldn't identify parts of speech, nor did they know the difference between a fragment and a sentence.

but when you're reading below level . . .

So I disagree with your philosophy. As someone who's seen the pendulum swing back and forth over the past two decades, you can't substitute one thing for another. There is the need to both MEMORIZE and free write w/o being "burdened" by errors. But drafts riddled with errors of which students are UNAWARE are drafts that remain drafts.

I don't teach for MCPS.

Even many of the "gifted" 9th graders I teach struggle with sentence fragments and can't always name the parts of speech. I always mark these things, and I did not mean to suggest that these issues magically go away, nor that you should be substituting one thing for another. Rather there is a stage to focus on grammar and spelling, and it's not at the beginning of the writing process.

And when would that be?

Elementary schools used to be called 'grammar' schools for a reason. Yes, you can't expect a first grader to understand the concept of irregular verbs, but 4th and 5th graders are developmentally advanced to be able to learn grammar and spelling. Why do you think your 'gifted' 9th graders can't name the parts of speech? Because they haven't been properly taught in upper ES/MS.

When it's time to go back and edit their work.

I do think there should be grammar/spelling lessons in elementary school. That is the appropriate time to teach these terms and skills. I don't think their writing should get marked up when they're drafting, until the end of the writing process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Even if the posters who claim their kids don’t have spelling or cursive are being truthful, they are all W cluster parents. So it’s only instructive insomuch as it shows what W schools are like. It doesn’t represent mcps as a whole.

Not true. My kids aren't in a W school. We are upcounty.

Me too. My kid's school had spelling tests and taught cursive.

(Though I, personally, think that spelling tests are not very useful for learning how to spell, and cursive is unimportant.)

+1 In RM cluster, but I do like that they learn cursive. I would probably teach it at home if they didn't learn it in school. Spelling is important to a point, but it's not something I would make a big stink about as some PPs have been doing. Grammar, oth, is important, but again, not something to focus on necessarily in the early years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And when would that be?

Elementary schools used to be called 'grammar' schools for a reason. Yes, you can't expect a first grader to understand the concept of irregular verbs, but 4th and 5th graders are developmentally advanced to be able to learn grammar and spelling. Why do you think your 'gifted' 9th graders can't name the parts of speech? Because they haven't been properly taught in upper ES/MS.

What was the reason?

There was a lot of emphasis on grammar. They had no spell checkers at the time.

I don't think that's why they were called grammar schools. There was a lot of emphasis on arithmetic too, in schools in the US, but they weren't called arithmetic schools.

Wikipedia (yes, I know) suggests that they were called grammar schools because they taught Latin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And when would that be?

Elementary schools used to be called 'grammar' schools for a reason. Yes, you can't expect a first grader to understand the concept of irregular verbs, but 4th and 5th graders are developmentally advanced to be able to learn grammar and spelling. Why do you think your 'gifted' 9th graders can't name the parts of speech? Because they haven't been properly taught in upper ES/MS.

What was the reason?

There was a lot of emphasis on grammar. They had no spell checkers at the time.

I don't think that's why they were called grammar schools. There was a lot of emphasis on arithmetic too, in schools in the US, but they weren't called arithmetic schools.

Wikipedia (yes, I know) suggests that they were called grammar schools because they taught Latin.

Now that makes more sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS but these complaints are the reason my son now goes to a Catholic MS. Now he is getting his butt kicked since he is behind in all 3 of these areas but he is learning. I am a teacher and have the same issues with my own students. By 4th and 5th grade, a student should be able to explain why the "sentence" they wrote, "In the car." is not a sentence. None of them could explain why it is not a sentence. "But it has a capital letter and a period!" Yeah, nope. Very sad indeed. When admin comes in and sees me teaching the basics, they are not happy. They like the "higher level thinking skills" but the kids don't even have the basics. Sad.

Can my Jewish Kid go to your Catholic school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my kids are getting a better education in MCPS than I received, in a small college-town school district in the Midwest in the 1970s and 1980s. I am satisfied with their MCPS education. It's not perfect, but I don't expect perfection.

However, if you are not happy with the education your children are receiving, then here are some things you can do, in increasing order of involvement and effort:

1. Go to candidate fora for the upcoming Board of Education elections
2. Work for a candidate who is running for a seat on the Board of Education
3. Run for a seat on the Board of Education

4. Send your kid to private if you don’t like your tuition-free choices

Nice life if you can afford it. We can't.

We make over 150K and get 66% financial aid. It is affordable if you apply into the top schools with huge endowments.

[Anonymous]

What is the obsession with spelling? When was the last time you had to write a doc on a piece of paper instead of a word processor? I spelled "obssessed" on this forum, and it underlined it in red so I knew I spelled it incorrectly. My spelling has always sucked, and we had spelling tests growing up, as do my MCPS ES kids. My spelling still sucks. Thank goodness for spell checker, yet I still got a good paying job (six figures) where I use my analytical, critical thinking and tech skills. Even when I write an email at work, it spell checks for me. My grammar is fine, good enough to get my point across without people misunderstanding. Spelling? No one cares that much, especially because we have spellchecker.



OK. I can't even believe someone actually believes this. Scary Sh*t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS but these complaints are the reason my son now goes to a Catholic MS. Now he is getting his butt kicked since he is behind in all 3 of these areas but he is learning. I am a teacher and have the same issues with my own students. By 4th and 5th grade, a student should be able to explain why the "sentence" they wrote, "In the car." is not a sentence. None of them could explain why it is not a sentence. "But it has a capital letter and a period!" Yeah, nope. Very sad indeed. When admin comes in and sees me teaching the basics, they are not happy. They like the "higher level thinking skills" but the kids don't even have the basics. Sad.

OH man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the obsession with spelling? When was the last time you had to write a doc on a piece of paper instead of a word processor? I spelled "obssessed" on this forum, and it underlined it in red so I knew I spelled it incorrectly. My spelling has always sucked, and we had spelling tests growing up, as do my MCPS ES kids. My spelling still sucks. Thank goodness for spell checker, yet I still got a good paying job (six figures) where I use my analytical, critical thinking and tech skills. Even when I write an email at work, it spell checks for me. My grammar is fine, good enough to get my point across without people misunderstanding. Spelling? No one cares that much, especially because we have spellchecker.



OK. I can't even believe someone actually believes this. Scary Sh*t.

On the same line of thinking: "If I don't use math, nobody should care about it because we have calculators."

[Anonymous]

I GT kid (that's what it was called then), 1 home school kid. GT kid had a cursive packet, due in 2 weeks, and that was the end of MCPS cursive for DC1. Homeschool for DC#2, W schools, no cursive.

Neither has had to do any research papers at home (now in 8th and 10th). They assure me they do them in class, but I have yet to see a paper other than the repetitive, ridiculous Literature Profiles (in my day we called them book reports). They are formulaic "hamburger models," so the kids just use the same paper but change the name of the book, characters and page numbers). Such a waste of time....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the obsession with spelling? When was the last time you had to write a doc on a piece of paper instead of a word processor? I spelled "obssessed" on this forum, and it underlined it in red so I knew I spelled it incorrectly. My spelling has always sucked, and we had spelling tests growing up, as do my MCPS ES kids. My spelling still sucks. Thank goodness for spell checker, yet I still got a good paying job (six figures) where I use my analytical, critical thinking and tech skills. Even when I write an email at work, it spell checks for me. My grammar is fine, good enough to get my point across without people misunderstanding. Spelling? No one cares that much, especially because we have spellchecker.



OK. I can't even believe someone actually believes this. Scary Sh*t.

On the same line of thinking: "If I don't use math, nobody should care about it because we have calculators."

I don't understand your disbelief. Here is somebody who says that they spell badly, are successful, and are grateful for spell-checker. Do you think they're lying? Or that bad spelling skills inescapably lead to failure in life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the obsession with spelling? When was the last time you had to write a doc on a piece of paper instead of a word processor? I spelled "obssessed" on this forum, and it underlined it in red so I knew I spelled it incorrectly. My spelling has always sucked, and we had spelling tests growing up, as do my MCPS ES kids. My spelling still sucks. Thank goodness for spell checker, yet I still got a good paying job (six figures) where I use my analytical, critical thinking and tech skills. Even when I write an email at work, it spell checks for me. My grammar is fine, good enough to get my point across without people misunderstanding. Spelling? No one cares that much, especially because we have spellchecker.



OK. I can't even believe someone actually believes this. Scary Sh*t.

On the same line of thinking: "If I don't use math, nobody should care about it because we have calculators."

I don't understand your disbelief. Here is somebody who says that they spell badly, are successful, and are grateful for spell-checker. Do you think they're lying? Or that bad spelling skills inescapably lead to failure in life?

Do you know the difference between evidence and anecdotal evidence? Him being successful without being able to spell doesn't mean that spelling is useless and should be neglected in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the obsession with spelling? When was the last time you had to write a doc on a piece of paper instead of a word processor? I spelled "obssessed" on this forum, and it underlined it in red so I knew I spelled it incorrectly. My spelling has always sucked, and we had spelling tests growing up, as do my MCPS ES kids. My spelling still sucks. Thank goodness for spell checker, yet I still got a good paying job (six figures) where I use my analytical, critical thinking and tech skills. Even when I write an email at work, it spell checks for me. My grammar is fine, good enough to get my point across without people misunderstanding. Spelling? No one cares that much, especially because we have spellchecker.



OK. I can't even believe someone actually believes this. Scary Sh*t.

On the same line of thinking: "If I don't use math, nobody should care about it because we have calculators."

I don't understand your disbelief. Here is somebody who says that they spell badly, are successful, and are grateful for spell-checker. Do you think they're lying? Or that bad spelling skills inescapably lead to failure in life?

Do you know the difference between evidence and anecdotal evidence? Him being successful without being able to spell doesn't mean that spelling is useless and should be neglected in school.

It certainly suggests that ability to spell correctly in English isn't necessary for success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS but these complaints are the reason my son now goes to a Catholic MS. Now he is getting his butt kicked since he is behind in all 3 of these areas but he is learning. I am a teacher and have the same issues with my own students. By 4th and 5th grade, a student should be able to explain why the "sentence" they wrote, "In the car." is not a sentence. None of them could explain why it is not a sentence. "But it has a capital letter and a period!" Yeah, nope. Very sad indeed. When admin comes in and sees me teaching the basics, they are not happy. They like the "higher level thinking skills" but the kids don't even have the basics. Sad.

OH man.

This really resonates with me!

When DC was in 4th grade, I realized that was true. She couldn’t identify why that was not a sentence! Huge wake up call to get my butt in gear and teach the poor kid some grammar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS but these complaints are the reason my son now goes to a Catholic MS. Now he is getting his butt kicked since he is behind in all 3 of these areas but he is learning. I am a teacher and have the same issues with my own students. By 4th and 5th grade, a student should be able to explain why the "sentence" they wrote, "In the car." is not a sentence. None of them could explain why it is not a sentence. "But it has a capital letter and a period!" Yeah, nope. Very sad indeed. When admin comes in and sees me teaching the basics, they are not happy. They like the "higher level thinking skills" but the kids don't even have the basics. Sad.

OH man.

This really resonates with me!

When DC was in 4th grade, I realized that was true. She couldn’t identify why that was not a sentence! Huge wake up call to get my butt in gear and teach the poor kid some grammar.

"In a car." is a sentence. What it isn't, is a complete sentence.