Middle and high school on Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jefferson aside, if you're planning to return to Brent for 5th, it behooves you to let the school know ASAP. The school needs to know whether to lobby for another 5th grade teacher and figure out what to do for another classroom. That is the major impetus for the pestering. Jefferson is very secondary.

The major impetus for the pestering is the Jefferson situation. The boosters are claiming that most of the 4th grade families aren't even applying to Latin and BASIS this year. They're planning to return for 5th to make the jump to Jefferson en mass the following year. Many of us have doubts, but we're keeping this to ourselves to avoid tangling with the boosters. It doesn't behoove you to let the school know anything until after the Latin and BASIS lottery results are in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way their "quick" solution works is if a bunch of 4th grade parents return for 5th, then send their children to a ms with proficiency pass rates in the low 20s. It's a hard sell, and the boosters really want to recruit your family, so 4th grade parents get pestered to jump on board. Can't count how many times I've been asked if we're coming back for 5th if the last few weeks. We have zero interest in Jeff Ac, but aren't talking about what we're planning. Being left alone would rock.

I didn't say it would be easy, but sounds like these parents are working hard on the most feasible option. good for them. I am zoned for EH (Maury) and would probably consider it if there were an organized group of parents planning to try it.

I'm a social worker by training who's served families in SW housing projects over the years. Privately, I'm not seeing a "feasible option" at Jefferson Academy, given the awful conditions many of the students face in nearby housing projects. I see well-intentioned Brent parents determined to stay in their neighborhood dramatically over-estimating how OK the demographics and academics of Jefferson Academy will be because they don't spend time in the projects...

Could you please explain what you are foreseeing in terms of challenges with demographics and academics given your work as a social worker? I've heard lots of people speculate but none of them seem to have real-world experience for their beliefs. It sounds like you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jefferson aside, if you're planning to return to Brent for 5th, it behooves you to let the school know ASAP. The school needs to know whether to lobby for another 5th grade teacher and figure out what to do for another classroom. That is the major impetus for the pestering. Jefferson is very secondary.

The major impetus for the pestering is the Jefferson situation. The boosters are claiming that most of the 4th grade families aren't even applying to Latin and BASIS this year. They're planning to return for 5th to make the jump to Jefferson en mass the following year. Many of us have doubts, but we're keeping this to ourselves to avoid tangling with the boosters. It doesn't behoove you to let the school know anything until after the Latin and BASIS lottery results are in.

The school will know soon enough. MSDC tells principals how many of their school's current students have entered the lottery, but not the names of those students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way their "quick" solution works is if a bunch of 4th grade parents return for 5th, then send their children to a ms with proficiency pass rates in the low 20s. It's a hard sell, and the boosters really want to recruit your family, so 4th grade parents get pestered to jump on board. Can't count how many times I've been asked if we're coming back for 5th if the last few weeks. We have zero interest in Jeff Ac, but aren't talking about what we're planning. Being left alone would rock.

I didn't say it would be easy, but sounds like these parents are working hard on the most feasible option. good for them. I am zoned for EH (Maury) and would probably consider it if there were an organized group of parents planning to try it.

I'm a social worker by training who's served families in SW housing projects over the years. Privately, I'm not seeing a "feasible option" at Jefferson Academy, given the awful conditions many of the students face in nearby housing projects. I see well-intentioned Brent parents determined to stay in their neighborhood dramatically over-estimating how OK the demographics and academics of Jefferson Academy will be because they don't spend time in the projects...

Could you please explain what you are foreseeing in terms of challenges with demographics and academics given your work as a social worker? I've heard lots of people speculate but none of them seem to have real-world experience for their beliefs. It sounds like you do.

Jefferson's dismal 6th grade PARCC scores tell the story. Many of the SW project kids come from multi-generational families in which all the adults--great-grandparents, grandparents and parents- are functionally illiterate. The adults in the home didn't read to the kids as toddlers because they couldn't. Public preschool programs help fill the gap, but they can only do so much for families without books in the home (I've seen this many times). Sexual, verbal and physical abuse of preteens is rife in the SW housing projects despite aggressive intervention by the city, though not to the same extent as in the projects in Wards 7 and 8. At least two-thirds of middle school-age kids in the SW projects do not live with a father, and at least a third don't have a father in the picture. It's common for grandmothers in their early to mid 30s to be raising middle school-age kids in local projects. If the kids arriving at MS working two or three years below grade level (very common) were put into remedial classes, while the Brent graduates were put in different classes, I'd say OK, maybe Jefferson could work for Brent. But academic tracking at the MS level isn't DCPS policy. Even at Stuart Hobson, where there are "honors" (grade level) classes in several subjects, kids are not separated into higher and lower classes across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way their "quick" solution works is if a bunch of 4th grade parents return for 5th, then send their children to a ms with proficiency pass rates in the low 20s. It's a hard sell, and the boosters really want to recruit your family, so 4th grade parents get pestered to jump on board. Can't count how many times I've been asked if we're coming back for 5th if the last few weeks. We have zero interest in Jeff Ac, but aren't talking about what we're planning. Being left alone would rock.

I didn't say it would be easy, but sounds like these parents are working hard on the most feasible option. good for them. I am zoned for EH (Maury) and would probably consider it if there were an organized group of parents planning to try it.

I'm a social worker by training who's served families in SW housing projects over the years. Privately, I'm not seeing a "feasible option" at Jefferson Academy, given the awful conditions many of the students face in nearby housing projects. I see well-intentioned Brent parents determined to stay in their neighborhood dramatically over-estimating how OK the demographics and academics of Jefferson Academy will be because they don't spend time in the projects...

Could you please explain what you are foreseeing in terms of challenges with demographics and academics given your work as a social worker? I've heard lots of people speculate but none of them seem to have real-world experience for their beliefs. It sounds like you do.

Jefferson's dismal 6th grade PARCC scores tell the story. Many of the SW project kids come from multi-generational families in which all the adults--great-grandparents, grandparents and parents- are functionally illiterate. The adults in the home didn't read to the kids as toddlers because they couldn't. Public preschool programs help fill the gap, but they can only do so much for families without books in the home (I've seen this many times). Sexual, verbal and physical abuse of preteens is rife in the SW housing projects despite aggressive intervention by the city, though not to the same extent as in the projects in Wards 7 and 8. At least two-thirds of middle school-age kids in the SW projects do not live with a father, and at least a third don't have a father in the picture. It's common for grandmothers in their early to mid 30s to be raising middle school-age kids in local projects. If the kids arriving at MS working two or three years below grade level (very common) were put into remedial classes, while the Brent graduates were put in different classes, I'd say OK, maybe Jefferson could work for Brent. But academic tracking at the MS level isn't DCPS policy. Even at Stuart Hobson, where there are "honors" (grade level) classes in several subjects, kids are not separated into higher and lower classes across the board.

So these are kids that "our" kids could just never mix with? Kind of shocked at your openly segregationalist mentality, but glad that you're putting it out there for all to see. Newsflash: white and high SES kids are ALREADY going to schools with kids who live in public housing at myriad charters, Tyler, Van Ness, Payne, etc etc.

[Anonymous]

The boosters like to say that "everything will get worked out" with DCPS in regards to academic challenge for Brenties at Jefferson.

I find this very hard to believe. The only way things seem to get worked out with DCPS at the middle school level are when demographic changes create conditions favorable for learning for high SES families (at Deal, and maybe Hardy and SH).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The boosters like to say that "everything will get worked out" with DCPS in regards to academic challenge for Brenties at Jefferson.

I find this very hard to believe. The only way things seem to get worked out with DCPS at the middle school level are when demographic changes create conditions favorable for learning for high SES families (at Deal, and maybe Hardy and SH).

You answered your own question. There are 90 6th graders at Jefferson. If all 50 of Brent's current 4th graders enrolled at Jefferson for 6th, that would be more than half the class and voila, demographic change. In that scenario, 6th grade would probably be a little easy for them -- but by 7th the principal would be able to plan for what they need.

But more likely maybe 10 will go, and the other 40 won't want to 'be the first.' And it will be a few years before things change much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way their "quick" solution works is if a bunch of 4th grade parents return for 5th, then send their children to a ms with proficiency pass rates in the low 20s. It's a hard sell, and the boosters really want to recruit your family, so 4th grade parents get pestered to jump on board. Can't count how many times I've been asked if we're coming back for 5th if the last few weeks. We have zero interest in Jeff Ac, but aren't talking about what we're planning. Being left alone would rock.

I didn't say it would be easy, but sounds like these parents are working hard on the most feasible option. good for them. I am zoned for EH (Maury) and would probably consider it if there were an organized group of parents planning to try it.

I'm a social worker by training who's served families in SW housing projects over the years. Privately, I'm not seeing a "feasible option" at Jefferson Academy, given the awful conditions many of the students face in nearby housing projects. I see well-intentioned Brent parents determined to stay in their neighborhood dramatically over-estimating how OK the demographics and academics of Jefferson Academy will be because they don't spend time in the projects...

Could you please explain what you are foreseeing in terms of challenges with demographics and academics given your work as a social worker? I've heard lots of people speculate but none of them seem to have real-world experience for their beliefs. It sounds like you do.

Jefferson's dismal 6th grade PARCC scores tell the story. Many of the SW project kids come from multi-generational families in which all the adults--great-grandparents, grandparents and parents- are functionally illiterate. The adults in the home didn't read to the kids as toddlers because they couldn't. Public preschool programs help fill the gap, but they can only do so much for families without books in the home (I've seen this many times). Sexual, verbal and physical abuse of preteens is rife in the SW housing projects despite aggressive intervention by the city, though not to the same extent as in the projects in Wards 7 and 8. At least two-thirds of middle school-age kids in the SW projects do not live with a father, and at least a third don't have a father in the picture. It's common for grandmothers in their early to mid 30s to be raising middle school-age kids in local projects. If the kids arriving at MS working two or three years below grade level (very common) were put into remedial classes, while the Brent graduates were put in different classes, I'd say OK, maybe Jefferson could work for Brent. But academic tracking at the MS level isn't DCPS policy. Even at Stuart Hobson, where there are "honors" (grade level) classes in several subjects, kids are not separated into higher and lower classes across the board.

So these are kids that "our" kids could just never mix with? Kind of shocked at your openly segregationalist mentality, but glad that you're putting it out there for all to see. Newsflash: white and high SES kids are ALREADY going to schools with kids who live in public housing at myriad charters, Tyler, Van Ness, Payne, etc etc.

When is the last time you visited a family living in multi-generational poverty in a SW project, which no family member has managed to exit since the 60s? I did that on Monday. Be shocked, because these are the realities our urban communities face in public education. They explain why many other American cities offer test-in MS programs/full-fledged honors programs, as the lesser of the evils (near total segregation in schools when high SES parents collectively vote with their feet).

Newsflash: there aren't in fact white and high SES kids in the Tyler Traditional program past 2nd grade, there are none at Payne past K, and Van Ness only goes up to 2nd grade this year. This is true even though the achievement gap is smaller and far more manageable at the ES level than the MS level. The most motivated project families tend to head to charter middle schools, just like their high SES peers. The Hill hasn't had a miserable SW scale housing project since the Ellen Wilson project came down in '98. I remember its demolition well. Trust me, Potomac Gardens pales by comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way their "quick" solution works is if a bunch of 4th grade parents return for 5th, then send their children to a ms with proficiency pass rates in the low 20s. It's a hard sell, and the boosters really want to recruit your family, so 4th grade parents get pestered to jump on board. Can't count how many times I've been asked if we're coming back for 5th if the last few weeks. We have zero interest in Jeff Ac, but aren't talking about what we're planning. Being left alone would rock.

I didn't say it would be easy, but sounds like these parents are working hard on the most feasible option. good for them. I am zoned for EH (Maury) and would probably consider it if there were an organized group of parents planning to try it.

I'm a social worker by training who's served families in SW housing projects over the years. Privately, I'm not seeing a "feasible option" at Jefferson Academy, given the awful conditions many of the students face in nearby housing projects. I see well-intentioned Brent parents determined to stay in their neighborhood dramatically over-estimating how OK the demographics and academics of Jefferson Academy will be because they don't spend time in the projects...

Could you please explain what you are foreseeing in terms of challenges with demographics and academics given your work as a social worker? I've heard lots of people speculate but none of them seem to have real-world experience for their beliefs. It sounds like you do.

Jefferson's dismal 6th grade PARCC scores tell the story. Many of the SW project kids come from multi-generational families in which all the adults--great-grandparents, grandparents and parents- are functionally illiterate. The adults in the home didn't read to the kids as toddlers because they couldn't. Public preschool programs help fill the gap, but they can only do so much for families without books in the home (I've seen this many times). Sexual, verbal and physical abuse of preteens is rife in the SW housing projects despite aggressive intervention by the city, though not to the same extent as in the projects in Wards 7 and 8. At least two-thirds of middle school-age kids in the SW projects do not live with a father, and at least a third don't have a father in the picture. It's common for grandmothers in their early to mid 30s to be raising middle school-age kids in local projects. If the kids arriving at MS working two or three years below grade level (very common) were put into remedial classes, while the Brent graduates were put in different classes, I'd say OK, maybe Jefferson could work for Brent. But academic tracking at the MS level isn't DCPS policy. Even at Stuart Hobson, where there are "honors" (grade level) classes in several subjects, kids are not separated into higher and lower classes across the board.

So these are kids that "our" kids could just never mix with? Kind of shocked at your openly segregationalist mentality, but glad that you're putting it out there for all to see. Newsflash: white and high SES kids are ALREADY going to schools with kids who live in public housing at myriad charters, Tyler, Van Ness, Payne, etc etc.

When is the last time you visited a family living in multi-generational poverty in a SW project, which no family member has managed to exit since the 60s? I did that on Monday. Be shocked, because these are the realities our urban communities face in public education. They explain why many other American cities offer test-in MS programs/full-fledged honors programs, as the lesser of the evils (near total segregation in schools when high SES parents collectively vote with their feet).

Newsflash: there aren't in fact white and high SES kids in the Tyler Traditional program past 2nd grade, there are none at Payne past K, and Van Ness only goes up to 2nd grade this year. This is true even though the achievement gap is smaller and far more manageable at the ES level than the MS level. The most motivated project families tend to head to charter middle schools, just like their high SES peers. The Hill hasn't had a miserable SW scale housing project since the Ellen Wilson project came down in '98. I remember its demolition well. Trust me, Potomac Gardens pales by comparison.

I'm not saying it would be easy. I am saying that it's offensive to claim that "project kids" can never be educated successfully alongside kids from Brent. People on the Hill chose to live in a city. They don't have the right to demand segregation from the city. And anyway, you've pointed out yourself that some of these kids go to charters. We all know how tough charter lotteries are, so that implies that there are plenty of kids in the projects who could have gone to the charter with little Emerson and Becket, and been just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In MoCo, "soft" test-in MS options are scattered around the county in ordinary neighborhood schools, e.g. 7th grade algebra and advanced English classes at schools with high low SES populations, to keep high SES parents onboard. Silver Spring International is a good example.

I get the sense that most Cap Hill high SES parents would be satisfied with BASIS or Wash Latin level academics at a by-right school in a decent facility. They aren't asking for the sun, the moon and the stars on a test in program, just a quality MS program where kids behave featuring appropriate academic rigor for all students. It's very difficult to convince parents that appropriate rigor awaits at a program where most of the kids don't test proficient and grade-level classes aren't are offered, let alone above-grade level courses.

The drumbeat to move families onto to Jefferson Academy and Eliot-Hine has been driving down PTA attendance at Brent and Maury. Improving these schools has become a focus of PTA work, yet few parents are onboard. The conversation is so awkward that many avoid it to avoid causing offense, or knocking heads with movement leaders. The thinking is that, once a bunch of parents make the jump in 2018, the good news will come back to Brent and Maury, motivating many others to jump. I won't be surprised if the opposite proves true.

Can you tell more about Silver Spring International? I understand that it's trended towards more high SES kids enrolling over the past few years and that people are relatively happy. I agree with you that most of us Hill parents would be happy with 7th grade Algebra and advanced English; we don't need a whole test-in program or got forbid to duplicate the craziness that is Fairfax County. I'm a parent who would probably be willing to try SH on that basis, but we are zoned for EH. Guessing that there are probably a lot like me.

I attended a SSI open house in the fall and recommend the experience. I learned that their high SES/white population is climbing steadily year on year (they've gone from around 10-40% high SES in five years). They offer a bunch of honors classes, and French and Spanish immersion for students with the language background. Yes, obviously, droves of parents like you on the Hill.

SH doesn't offer 7th grade algebra or other above grade-level classes, after 30 years of the Cluster. This helps explain BASIS' popularity.

Someone without the facts keeps trying to make claims about SH -- they do offer Algebra I and Geometry, both considered essential to qualify for test-in programs. Above statement is demonstrably false

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Threads like this one reassure me of the wisdom of selling my Capitol Hill home and moving my kids to private last year.

Aw couldn't handle it? Some of us don't want to dump our children in an inferior private school and instead got lucky with charters. Sorry you were a lottery loser that still trolls the board. Sad!

I find you both gross for crowing about how far you will go to make sure your snowflakes don't have to share a classroom with poor, black and brown children.

Hysterical. My family is brown. I find you revolting for assuming I am white. Racist!

You can be a minority and still a racist.

It doesn't make PP classist either, but that's sure sounds that way based on above thread. The integrated charters are considered a better option to some because the lower SES families enrolled are looking beyond default and sometimes inferior neighborhood options.

[Anonymous]

I feel like people are looking at the MS thing wrong, declaring anything that doesn't work for 100% of the kids a failure. If you are raising the next Doogie Howser or Bill Gates, a DCPS middle school may not work for you. If you can afford private, have at it.

Success in my mind 40% to 50% of the kids who start off in K at the local ES, end up in middle school. For Brent, that would be 25 to 30 students a class. By all accounts, Deal is a great school that everyone would love to have in Ward 6. But they don't get 100% of their elementary school students.

My understanding is that the numbers of 4th grade families at Brent that entered the lottery is down significantly from previous years. Does that mean these people have all committed to Jefferson? NO, not even close. But if 10 or 15 of those families go forward, that should give us a better idea of how this could work.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PP who is the SW. Many of you probably can't begin to imagine the struggles some kids face. I also work with families who live in poverty, have experienced trauma, etc. I love my work and I like the families who are very nice. However, most of the kids are performing well below grade level and the parents, who have the best of intentions, just don't know how to support them at home. No way would I put my kid in the same class with kids facing these struggles and neither would a lot of the jefferson boosters if they worked closely with famililes in SW. The teacher would need to devote most of her time addressing the educational deficits and providing the emotional/social support these kids need. By the time you have finished supplementing work, you might as well home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who is the SW. Many of you probably can't begin to imagine the struggles some kids face. I also work with families who live in poverty, have experienced trauma, etc. I love my work and I like the families who are very nice. However, most of the kids are performing well below grade level and the parents, who have the best of intentions, just don't know how to support them at home. No way would I put my kid in the same class with kids facing these struggles and neither would a lot of the jefferson boosters if they worked closely with famililes in SW. The teacher would need to devote most of her time addressing the educational deficits and providing the emotional/social support these kids need. By the time you have finished supplementing work, you might as well home school.

Ok fine, but if you truly believe your child cannot be educated alongside other DC children, then don't go protesting about how DC "ignores the needs of the middle class." It's your choice and your belief that is keeping you from using the school to which you are assigned. I don't think DCPS has a responsibility to cater to you, if you believe you must be segregated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people are looking at the MS thing wrong, declaring anything that doesn't work for 100% of the kids a failure. If you are raising the next Doogie Howser or Bill Gates, a DCPS middle school may not work for you. If you can afford private, have at it.

Success in my mind 40% to 50% of the kids who start off in K at the local ES, end up in middle school. For Brent, that would be 25 to 30 students a class. By all accounts, Deal is a great school that everyone would love to have in Ward 6. But they don't get 100% of their elementary school students.

My understanding is that the numbers of 4th grade families at Brent that entered the lottery is down significantly from previous years. Does that mean these people have all committed to Jefferson? NO, not even close. But if 10 or 15 of those families go forward, that should give us a better idea of how this could work.

Is Jefferson failing the 46 kids who are on grade level? Are they holding back the 5 who are advanced? Those numbers may not be collectively impressive but Jefferson has been afforded little opportunity to prove/disprove that it can meet the needs of the Brent community. Jefferson has already demonstrated that it can handle a range of learning abilities and make progress with the students they have.