TJ results out

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to understand why the school day is longer. I was told that 8th period is for a club twice a week and the other two days were for intervention with Monday being an anchor day. This is very similar to just a regular base FCPS school which has 7 classes plus an intervention/study hall time as their 8th class twice a week. So I guess the week is extended by these clubs twice a week and the time for each day is slightly longer? There aren't more classes than at the base school. It just seems like being in a club is folded into the school day twice a week rather than after school. How do the lengths of classes differ from the lengths of classes at a base school with block scheduling?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand why the school day is longer. I was told that 8th period is for a club twice a week and the other two days were for intervention with Monday being an anchor day. This is very similar to just a regular base FCPS school which has 7 classes plus an intervention/study hall time as their 8th class twice a week. So I guess the week is extended by these clubs twice a week and the time for each day is slightly longer? There aren't more classes than at the base school. It just seems like being in a club is folded into the school day twice a week rather than after school. How do the lengths of classes differ from the lengths of classes at a base school with block scheduling?

Monday is an anchor day—you have all seven classes.

Tuesday and Thursday you have classes 1-4.

Wednesdays and Fridays you have classes 5-7, plus the 8th period for clubs/activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand why the school day is longer. I was told that 8th period is for a club twice a week and the other two days were for intervention with Monday being an anchor day. This is very similar to just a regular base FCPS school which has 7 classes plus an intervention/study hall time as their 8th class twice a week. So I guess the week is extended by these clubs twice a week and the time for each day is slightly longer? There aren't more classes than at the base school. It just seems like being in a club is folded into the school day twice a week rather than after school. How do the lengths of classes differ from the lengths of classes at a base school with block scheduling?

Monday is an anchor day—you have all seven classes.

Tuesday and Thursday you have classes 1-4.

Wednesdays and Fridays you have classes 5-7, plus the 8th period for clubs/activities.

Understood but many base schools have this schedule. Why is the TJ day longer?

[Anonymous]

It's an extra hour long with only replacing advisory with clubs for the 8th period. There really isn't an extra class offered at TJ unless you count clubs. They do have more semester classes, but even those seem similar to the half year point of most year long classes. Is each class longer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grader is in Algebra 1 and thinks Math would be tough at TJ, especially since calculus is required. How to convince them to accept the offer? Is it that difficult from base school?

If you want to convince them, you could point out that they would likely take calculus at their base school. If you have the money, you could agree to pay for tutoring/afterschooling in math.

Don't FCPS base schools allow graduation with just Algebra 2? No need for calculus at base school, but TJ requires it?

TJ is a magnate school with different expectations. When you apply to TJ, you apply understanding that you will be taking math and science classes that are more intense and involved. A look at the math catalog shows that the math class are mainly one semester long and are not labeled Geometry, Algebra 2, and the like. Talking to the students at TJ points to math classes that are compacted and intense.

If you want to take the same classes you would take at yoru base school, don't apply to TJ, go to your base school. If you want to be challenged in math and science, apply for TJ knowing that the standards are different.

You would not apply to attend MIT and get there and go "But why do I have to take different classes that are harder then UVA?" Same for TJ. You apply for TJ to attend TJ with compacted math, Calculus as a bse requirement for graduation, and more challenging science offerings.

But, they changes their admissions. They should also change their expectations and requirements. It's just unfair to expect the same from kids finishing Alg 1 and kids finishing Alg 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grader is in Algebra 1 and thinks Math would be tough at TJ, especially since calculus is required. How to convince them to accept the offer? Is it that difficult from base school?

If you want to convince them, you could point out that they would likely take calculus at their base school. If you have the money, you could agree to pay for tutoring/afterschooling in math.

Don't FCPS base schools allow graduation with just Algebra 2? No need for calculus at base school, but TJ requires it?

TJ is a magnate school with different expectations. When you apply to TJ, you apply understanding that you will be taking math and science classes that are more intense and involved. A look at the math catalog shows that the math class are mainly one semester long and are not labeled Geometry, Algebra 2, and the like. Talking to the students at TJ points to math classes that are compacted and intense.

If you want to take the same classes you would take at yoru base school, don't apply to TJ, go to your base school. If you want to be challenged in math and science, apply for TJ knowing that the standards are different.

You would not apply to attend MIT and get there and go "But why do I have to take different classes that are harder then UVA?" Same for TJ. You apply for TJ to attend TJ with compacted math, Calculus as a bse requirement for graduation, and more challenging science offerings.

But, they changes their admissions. They should also change their expectations and requirements. It's just unfair to expect the same from kids finishing Alg 1 and kids finishing Alg 2.

No. It's not unfair and they shouldn't change their requirements.

[Anonymous]

It looks like lunch is an extra 10 minutes or so each day. That is part of it. What is JLC? Advisory? Looks like each class is an extra 5 minutes long and there is an extra 15 minute break on 8th period days as well. I don't know why there is a rumor that TJ has an extra class for a grade. It doesn't as far as I can tell. It just has more semester classes, more breaks, and time for clubs within the school day. Do TJ students get more than 7 grades in a semester?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grader is in Algebra 1 and thinks Math would be tough at TJ, especially since calculus is required. How to convince them to accept the offer? Is it that difficult from base school?

If you want to convince them, you could point out that they would likely take calculus at their base school. If you have the money, you could agree to pay for tutoring/afterschooling in math.

Don't FCPS base schools allow graduation with just Algebra 2? No need for calculus at base school, but TJ requires it?

TJ is a magnate school with different expectations. When you apply to TJ, you apply understanding that you will be taking math and science classes that are more intense and involved. A look at the math catalog shows that the math class are mainly one semester long and are not labeled Geometry, Algebra 2, and the like. Talking to the students at TJ points to math classes that are compacted and intense.

If you want to take the same classes you would take at yoru base school, don't apply to TJ, go to your base school. If you want to be challenged in math and science, apply for TJ knowing that the standards are different.

You would not apply to attend MIT and get there and go "But why do I have to take different classes that are harder then UVA?" Same for TJ. You apply for TJ to attend TJ with compacted math, Calculus as a bse requirement for graduation, and more challenging science offerings.

But, they changes their admissions. They should also change their expectations and requirements. It's just unfair to expect the same from kids finishing Alg 1 and kids finishing Alg 2.

You can still take 4 years of math with Algebra I and finish with Calculus. It's not a requirement to take more than 1 math class a year. That was the standard GT schedule back in the day. You took Geometry in 9th grade and finished with Calculus AB or BC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

Teachers would get sued.

I see the value of teacher recommendation, but it cannot be the only thing - too subjective.

Selection processes are and must be subjective. An objective selection process incentivizes parents to narrowly tailor their child's middle school experience to meet the standard and results in homogeneity among the selected population - the former is destructive for kids, and the latter is terrible for school environments.

Parents in this area need to stop wanting an explicit road map for how to get their child into TJ. Such a road map was provided with the old process, and the result was devastating for the health of high-achieving children in Northern Virginia.

It can be a combination. Why not allow essays and a test and experience factors?

Honestly, I think this can work, as long as a few things are the case:

1) The process MUST remain subjective and holistic in nature;
2) The exam, in whatever form it takes, must be one of many factors that is considered and cannot be an absolute gatekeeper in the way that it was with the previous process (i.e. brilliant kids who are poor test-takers must still have a way to get in);
3) The exam scores cannot be made publicly available in any way, so that folks operating in bad faith cannot FOIA the results and use them as evidence to suggest that the standards for one racial group to be admitted are different from another;
4) The exam scores are contextualized against the rest of the academic profile of the student (i.e. a theoretical 90 from a kid in Alg1 would be much more impressive than a 92 from a kid in Alg2).

[Anonymous]

It looks like TJ starts 30 minutes later than the other high schools. Has an extra 10 minutes for lunch and 5 minutes or so more for each class for a total of 20 to 25 minutes longer school day. That's about 30 to 35 minutes more per day but since they start 30 minutes later, they end a full hour later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

Followup- I described the top students statewide who were getting rejected. But TJ has a minimum quota per school and selects from within a school first. By top students I am looking at top MathCounts students who qualify for state, vs your all A students that are just OK at math, taking geometry or maybe algebra 1. Last year- the school had students who didn't accept four algebra 2 kids, one qualified for MathCounts nationals, another was in top 12 at MathCounts State, another was on a top team at state MathCounts and won awards in computer programming, another won lots of awards in chess rated 2000+. The students who were accepted probably had all As but were not known as standout students. One was plausible- an Algebra 2 student who was solid on the MathCounts team but not winning at the chapter level. Almost all accepted were Asian so it not a racial factor as many are suggesting.

The proposal I've had for some time to enhance the present admissions process is to create a standardized teacher recommendation form asking teachers to evaluate applicants against students in their own class.

So essentially, design a form that lets teachers rate the students across a broad spectrum of metrics:
- command of the material
- academic integrity
- commitment to learning for its own sake
- contributions to the overall class environment
- intellectual curiosity in STEM
-
- etc.

... using a rating scale including "Poor", "Below Average", "Average", "Above Average", "Superior", and "One of the best I've seen". But the key is that the teacher should be evaluating the students more or less against each other, so that when an application evaluator is reviewing a batch from, say, a Geometry teacher at Carson, they should be seeing ratings across the spectrum. If that teacher is rating every student as "Superior" or higher, it becomes clear that that teacher's evaluations aren't to be taken seriously.

A recommendation form of this type should take no more than 5 minutes to fill out at most. I'd also invite the opportunity for each teacher recommender to select a maximum of 3-5 students to write more expansively about if they so chose - whether to encourage the admissions personnel to admit the student or, perhaps equally importantly, to let them know to avoid a student who, for example, cheated on an assignment or would otherwise contribute negatively to the TJ environment.

PP, would you agree that a process like the above would enhance the likelihood that the right 45 students or so were selected from places like Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, etc?

NO. What if the teacher does not like a child even if that child is exceptional. I rather have my kids taking tests, but no to any teacher's opinion!

Why doesn't the teacher like your child? And do you honestly think that teachers have an agenda to punish children that they just "don't like"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean when you say top students? All As or something else.

Someone posted on here there were rejections of kids who qualified for USAJMO in 7th grade. This is a contest that takes around the top 100 math students in the country. And that is among 10th graders and below.
7th or 8th grader to make this in Virginia is rare, but they couldn't find room in a class of 500. They also reject5 winners of MathCounts, Science Olympiad, and other contests.
Really anyone who qualifies for the earlier round AIME should be accepted.

"I want to go to TJ because I'm better than everyone else and if you send me to my base school I'll be bored to tears"?

TJ would be great for this student. They won't be bored to tears at TJ and they'll learn that they're not the smartest person in the region.

TJ might be great for that student, but that student would be awful for TJ. And in the end, the job is to create the best possible learning environment for the students who are there, to maximize the products coming from each class of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know this kid but he might have bombed the essays.

And it just happens that TJ's attrition rate has increased 10x despite the new Algebra review sessions and new no-fail policy for freshmen.

This is completely false. In a typical year pre-covid, you would see attrition of 25-35 students in each freshmen class. It's essentially the same under the new admissions policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know this kid but he might have bombed the essays.

And it just happens that TJ's attrition rate has increased 10x despite the new Algebra review sessions and new no-fail policy for freshmen.

This is completely false. In a typical year pre-covid, you would see attrition of 25-35 students in each freshmen class. It's essentially the same under the new admissions policy.

You're just wrong. On average, there was 1 freshman goes back to base school each year pre-covid. Now, it's 15-20 a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grader is in Algebra 1 and thinks Math would be tough at TJ, especially since calculus is required. How to convince them to accept the offer? Is it that difficult from base school?

If you want to convince them, you could point out that they would likely take calculus at their base school. If you have the money, you could agree to pay for tutoring/afterschooling in math.

Don't FCPS base schools allow graduation with just Algebra 2? No need for calculus at base school, but TJ requires it?

TJ is a magnate school with different expectations. When you apply to TJ, you apply understanding that you will be taking math and science classes that are more intense and involved. A look at the math catalog shows that the math class are mainly one semester long and are not labeled Geometry, Algebra 2, and the like. Talking to the students at TJ points to math classes that are compacted and intense.

If you want to take the same classes you would take at yoru base school, don't apply to TJ, go to your base school. If you want to be challenged in math and science, apply for TJ knowing that the standards are different.

You would not apply to attend MIT and get there and go "But why do I have to take different classes that are harder then UVA?" Same for TJ. You apply for TJ to attend TJ with compacted math, Calculus as a bse requirement for graduation, and more challenging science offerings.

But, TJ is a public HS not an elite college. The current system basically setups the non-AAP and Alp 1 students to fail. Why take them in and keep them at the bottom?