GDS high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are not missing the point. You’re just not hearing us. Is it suddenly okay to say this word as a white person because you give a warning first? That’s silly.

I can understand this older teacher maybe thought it was okay. For the work! The rules don’t apply in the classroom somehow when a black author wrote the word, and because the author’s point is that language has power!

Okay, but language has power! You are still an old white guy saying this word in a classroom with kids, and you are the one in that room with power as their teacher. The fact that language has power is exactly the point. You reading that word as a white teacher regardless of the wishes of your students is claiming a power over them whether you fully intend it or not.

When folks were railing against wokeness, I didn’t think the issues would be this basic. This is stuff that I as a white person understood at least 15 years ago. Seriously wtf?

Because we have moved beyond this simplistic view from 15 years ago. There are so many problems with this scenario that you outlined, including the one at GDS where there are valid reasons for any teacher to read out-loud certain passages when students are given the proper context for it. What happens when you have a white-passing teacher who is AA read the N-word? Would you rather have an inexperienced Black math teacher read Morrison out loud rather than an experienced Indigenous one? How far does identity politics enter into the classroom? If you really want to press the argument, anything in the humanities ought to be taught only by the people of the same race/gender who created certain works. Universities are changing their tune about all of this because the politics you describe are making students and teachers fearful to think critically about hard topics.

if the impact of hearing a passage spoken aloud is critical to the understanding of the work, then let the author speak. toni morrison narrated the work, it's available on audible. It doesn't need to be read aloud *by the instructor* for the instructor to teach the work.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, this. Not that hard to use Audible if it’s that necessary. Arguing to give the teachers carte blanche when a suitable alternative exists is angels dancing on a pin territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are not missing the point. You’re just not hearing us. Is it suddenly okay to say this word as a white person because you give a warning first? That’s silly.

I can understand this older teacher maybe thought it was okay. For the work! The rules don’t apply in the classroom somehow when a black author wrote the word, and because the author’s point is that language has power!

Okay, but language has power! You are still an old white guy saying this word in a classroom with kids, and you are the one in that room with power as their teacher. The fact that language has power is exactly the point. You reading that word as a white teacher regardless of the wishes of your students is claiming a power over them whether you fully intend it or not.

When folks were railing against wokeness, I didn’t think the issues would be this basic. This is stuff that I as a white person understood at least 15 years ago. Seriously wtf?

Because we have moved beyond this simplistic view from 15 years ago. There are so many problems with this scenario that you outlined, including the one at GDS where there are valid reasons for any teacher to read out-loud certain passages when students are given the proper context for it. What happens when you have a white-passing teacher who is AA read the N-word? Would you rather have an inexperienced Black math teacher read Morrison out loud rather than an experienced Indigenous one? How far does identity politics enter into the classroom? If you really want to press the argument, anything in the humanities ought to be taught only by the people of the same race/gender who created certain works. Universities are changing their tune about all of this because the politics you describe are making students and teachers fearful to think critically about hard topics.

if the impact of hearing a passage spoken aloud is critical to the understanding of the work, then let the author speak. toni morrison narrated the work, it's available on audible. It doesn't need to be read aloud *by the instructor* for the instructor to teach the work.

Fair enough. Doesn't excuse the forced immolation but that is a reasonable solution.

[Anonymous]

Very Entertaining to see non black parents tie themselves in knots to explain how black students should feel about the use of the N word.

The plot has truly been lost. I would not feel comfortable with any white person using the N word in front of my black child in any setting academic or not. So I completely understand the demands for an apology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very Entertaining to see non black parents tie themselves in knots to explain how black students should feel about the use of the N word.

The plot has truly been lost. I would not feel comfortable with any white person using the N word in front of my black child in any setting academic or not. So I completely understand the demands for an apology.

I'm a black GDS parent. I am OK with teachers warning and then reading from a book exactly if that's how authors wrote it. I guess we just have to disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it’s all the truth. Believe every bit of it.

Yeah, it's so "true" that no one in this thread can name the specific contrary opinions that are supposedly being reported to the DEI office.

There was one just a few weeks ago. A long standing teacher reading a very famous author who wrote some charged words in his work. Boom. Teacher turned into DEI office by the form submitted anonymously by a hs student. Forced to ritually self immolate

He read the passage out loud in a book the academic department had assigned. Yes the passage contained a word that is considered deeply offensive in 2024. The teacher even warned the class before he read it.

And yet, teacher was reported. The administrative state began its investigation. Called the teacher in. An apology was forced to be sent in writing to the entire class by the teacher. That apology was sent around the school.

This happens frequently. God forbid you say “slave” in a class about slavery instead of “enslaved person”. You know the form will be used. And the kid who said slave in proper historic context will be called in.

To be clear, there are a very small number of kids who do this. But they are around. And everyone knows them. And the entire DEI apparatus at the school serves to empower these 1-2 kids per classroom

Was the student censoring "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" or "To Kill a Mockingbird"? Will they be banning those books now?

Think it might have been 'Song of Solomon". I honestly think kids at that age often have a level of righteous indignation and are in the process of learning to advocate, yet haven't learned to pick their battles yet. Learning how and when to speak up is a skill that high school students are still mastering. I like that GDS helps students find their voice and situations like this are a learning experience for everyone.

A Toni Morrison book got a DEI warning and the teacher had to immolate themselves in front of their students? That doesn't seem like a positive learning experience for anyone.

Wait, was it the n word then, and not the word slave? I am still trying to figure out what was found objectionable. Can someone please just say?

Song of Solomon. warned students he would be reading a passage in original w n word and did it. Explained why he was doing it. Despite the warning, he got reported and was in trouble.

Thank you!

I feel badly for this teacher, but I also don’t understand why a white person would ever feel the need to say that word. I just think it was a mistake to want to read that passage out loud yourself. Maybe discuss it without reading it? There is still a power dynamic at play with you being the teacher. I am white.

It is just a word. Why give one word so much power? What is the big deal if someone says it while reading it straight from a literary book. Are you allowed to write the word? The word exists whether people like it or not

[Anonymous]

What colleges are now finding out is that if you treat black students with so much fragility and impose all sorts of free speech restrictions around the black experience, you better be prepared to do it for other groups as well. And this quickly becomes unsustainable and soon no one can say anything about anything. GDS has good intentions but the cart has run away from the horse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is just a word. Why give one word so much power? What is the big deal if someone says it while reading it straight from a literary book. Are you allowed to write the word? The word exists whether people like it or not

Do you also disagree with German laws prohibiting use of certain Nazi slogans? I mean, they're just words that exist whether people like it or not.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/germanys-laws-antisemitic-hate-speech-nazi-propaganda-holocaust-denial/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very Entertaining to see non black parents tie themselves in knots to explain how black students should feel about the use of the N word.

The plot has truly been lost. I would not feel comfortable with any white person using the N word in front of my black child in any setting academic or not. So I completely understand the demands for an apology.

Equally entertaining to see some Black parents decide that how they view this situation is the only way any Black parent would view it. All Black people are the same, is that it?

Yes, the plot is lost. On that, we do agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is just a word. Why give one word so much power? What is the big deal if someone says it while reading it straight from a literary book. Are you allowed to write the word? The word exists whether people like it or not

Do you also disagree with German laws prohibiting use of certain Nazi slogans? I mean, they're just words that exist whether people like it or not.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/germanys-laws-antisemitic-hate-speech-nazi-propaganda-holocaust-denial/

But what about…!?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very Entertaining to see non black parents tie themselves in knots to explain how black students should feel about the use of the N word.

The plot has truly been lost. I would not feel comfortable with any white person using the N word in front of my black child in any setting academic or not. So I completely understand the demands for an apology.

Equally entertaining to see some Black parents decide that how they view this situation is the only way any Black parent would view it. All Black people are the same, is that it?

Yes, the plot is lost. On that, we do agree.

It doesn’t matter how ANY black parent would view it. It matters how the black students who sat in that class and their families felt about it.

It’s seems that they took offense…so why are you so hellbent to say that they shouldn’t have felt offended?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is just a word. Why give one word so much power? What is the big deal if someone says it while reading it straight from a literary book. Are you allowed to write the word? The word exists whether people like it or not

Do you also disagree with German laws prohibiting use of certain Nazi slogans? I mean, they're just words that exist whether people like it or not.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/germanys-laws-antisemitic-hate-speech-nazi-propaganda-holocaust-denial/

But what about…!?!

It's a simple question. In your view, should speech always be completely unregulated? Does GDS not have any rights in determining what is permissible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, just say “n-word”. My kid is reading Sing, Unbroken, Sing at SSSAS. The teachers explained to the students that the (Black) author used the word (spoken by both Black and white characters in the book) and that the students themselves should say “n-word” if reading aloud or type “n*****” if quoting the book in a written response.

It’s important to read and discuss books with these themes and topics but it’s also important for teachers and students to understand what language is and isn’t acceptable even in purely academic discussion. There are easy work-arounds that don’t take away from the author’s choices to include certain words, the importance of introducing such words from an academic standpoint, or the importance of the importance of the topic, but still don’t have students or even teachers speaking certain words about loud.

You missed an important point, which is that Toni Morrison, a poet and novelist, deliberately chose to use the n-word in her own writing. Toni Morrison was a staunch supporter of free speech (she even wrote an intro to a recent edition of Huck Finn!), and she chose to use the n-word instead of something less noticeable because it has meaning. If she wanted people to read "n-word," she would have chosen a different word.
In the context of a GDS class taught by a veteran teacher, it's clear that the teacher using the n-word had provided appropriate guidance to the students. GDS admin went too far in admonishing the teacher and letting the student run roughshod over the pedagogical process. From now on, teachers are going to think twice about introducing any literature that could be controversial, much to the detriment of GDS students. It's truly sad to see a paragon of intellectual free thinking devolve into a caricature of knee-jerk liberal politics.

GDS as an example of a “paragon of intellectual free thinking?”

OMG I’m about to wet my pants I’m laughing so hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very Entertaining to see non black parents tie themselves in knots to explain how black students should feel about the use of the N word.

The plot has truly been lost. I would not feel comfortable with any white person using the N word in front of my black child in any setting academic or not. So I completely understand the demands for an apology.

Equally entertaining to see some Black parents decide that how they view this situation is the only way any Black parent would view it. All Black people are the same, is that it?

Yes, the plot is lost. On that, we do agree.

It doesn’t matter how ANY black parent would view it. It matters how the black students who sat in that class and their families felt about it.

It’s seems that they took offense…so why are you so hellbent to say that they shouldn’t have felt offended?

No one can control how a student feels, but a school can determine its policy towards students who claim to feel offended/harmed/traumatized. It would be wise for GDS to examine its own policies after the fallout at Harvard and Penn. The school cannot privilege one racial group’s protests of “harm,” but then ignore other groups.
Teachers who have arguably valid reasons for teaching material with “offensive” content should be allowed to teach as they see fit.
Parents who encourage children to believe that they are intellectually fragile are not doing their kids any favors. Especially given the objective privileged circumstances of most GDS students, these cries of harm and offense at the sound of a word in a careful classroom context are a farce in the face of real world crises.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, just say “n-word”. My kid is reading Sing, Unbroken, Sing at SSSAS. The teachers explained to the students that the (Black) author used the word (spoken by both Black and white characters in the book) and that the students themselves should say “n-word” if reading aloud or type “n*****” if quoting the book in a written response.

It’s important to read and discuss books with these themes and topics but it’s also important for teachers and students to understand what language is and isn’t acceptable even in purely academic discussion. There are easy work-arounds that don’t take away from the author’s choices to include certain words, the importance of introducing such words from an academic standpoint, or the importance of the importance of the topic, but still don’t have students or even teachers speaking certain words about loud.

You missed an important point, which is that Toni Morrison, a poet and novelist, deliberately chose to use the n-word in her own writing. Toni Morrison was a staunch supporter of free speech (she even wrote an intro to a recent edition of Huck Finn!), and she chose to use the n-word instead of something less noticeable because it has meaning. If she wanted people to read "n-word," she would have chosen a different word.
In the context of a GDS class taught by a veteran teacher, it's clear that the teacher using the n-word had provided appropriate guidance to the students. GDS admin went too far in admonishing the teacher and letting the student run roughshod over the pedagogical process. From now on, teachers are going to think twice about introducing any literature that could be controversial, much to the detriment of GDS students. It's truly sad to see a paragon of intellectual free thinking devolve into a caricature of knee-jerk liberal politics.

Hey, maybe you haven’t noticed, but Toni Morrison is black.

Black music artists also choose to use the n word in their songs. White people still can’t sing that word.

Where have you been if you are not aware of this modern reality? This is a small toll on your freedom and really is NOT that big a deal. Get over yourself. Maybe ask yourself why it’s so important to you that white people should be saying that word when there are black people in the classroom that do not want to be subjected to that. Why does your white opinion matter more than theirs?

Hey, maybe you haven't noticed but Toni MOrrison is dead. She died in 2019