Talk to me about McKinley

[Anonymous]

I know you believe it is mediocre, but what should we do about the applicant pool? McKinley Tech does seem reasonably aligned with the student body that it is likely to get. It feels like the "it should be Bronx Science" people wouldn't send their kids there anyway, since it's not close enough to Ward 3 anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m a DCPS HS teacher and no way would I send my kid to McKinley over Walls. Walls has a much higher performing student cohort

Which is great if you are part of that higher-performing student cohort. But what if you're not? If you come to Walls, take Algebra 1 as freshman, and don't score proficient, that puts you in like the bottom 10%. Does the school know what to do with you? Are you getting the opportunities that Walls is helpful for? At McKinley, that's three-quarters of the freshman class. No one is going to write you off, they will work with you, and you will have a peer group and classes being taught at an appropriate level.

A student taking Algebra 1 as a freshman should know he's at least year (really, 2) behind the curve already at Walls or JR. It would be advisable to take the course in summer school before freshman year to prepare, and depending on summer school results take be well prepared for Algebra 1 as a freshman or push on to Geometry.



McKinley does have honors sections for the higher performing kids entering. My understanding is 1-2 of the 8-10 9th grade science, English etc classes are honors level based on summer placement tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We toured McKinley and I think it would be a good fit for my white kid. He wouldn't be the only, and the currently available statistics are a bit behind.

My son's generation of kids was one of the first much larger classes of charter schools to come online. The kids in his class have been in public schools since PK3. Also, this generation of parents has been and will be open to trying out unknown quantities. To be realistic, since test scores are no longer a factor for SWW. Banneker is getting harder to get into and there's more demand.

As more white kids stay in DC for high school, mark my words, McKinley Tech (which is a good school getting even better) will get more and more diverse every year until it reflects the diversity of DC students attending high schools.

I had a very good feeling touring there.

I would suggest that parents who have no actual experience with it beyond looking at the test scores zip it.

How old is your kid and what grade? I think my experience thus far in a DCPS MS is at least as relevant as yours. I have zero doubt that there are many great kids, administrators and teachers at McKinley. But you’re fooling yourself to think that the education is on par for college-bound kids. Test scores matter unless the school tracks, which DCPS does not do (except math). I may have no actual experience with McKinley but I think the notion that we should be happy with “unknown quantities” for our kids’ high school education is just frankly astonishing.

Once you're in high school, tracking vs non tracking is not an issue. Students are sorted by academic achievement and performance. Kids who can handle them go into AP classes and kids who can't don't.

Dream on. It’s AP for all and the classes are not rigorous. There is absolutely no academic requirement or threshold to take an AP class and it’s watered down because many of the kids should not be in the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know you believe it is mediocre, but what should we do about the applicant pool? McKinley Tech does seem reasonably aligned with the student body that it is likely to get. It feels like the "it should be Bronx Science" people wouldn't send their kids there anyway, since it's not close enough to Ward 3 anyway.

I think parents actually would send them for the “Bronx Science” equivalent…but you have to start from scratch.

You can’t transition the current McKinley to that type of school because you won’t get the first Bronx Science class filled if there is still 3 years of the old McKinley.

So…how you actually make it happen is quite tricky.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you’re talking about a charter or a new themed DCPS. If you were really interested it would have to seem like you aren’t replicating McKinley. Hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just agree that McKinley is a good choice for many students. Is it the best school in the city right now? I don't think anyone has said that. But our city needs good choices for High School. McKinley Tech is one of them.

In previous years, many white students would make a point to find their way into Jackson Reed or School Without Walls. Given the change in admission for SWW and the fact that it's much harder to find a spot in Jackson Reed than it was, things are changing. Another change is that many charter middle schools are decent and even good. More white students are looking for a place to attend high school and won't be attending SWW or Jackson Reed. If your kid has a spot in those schools, great! If they don't why can't you find a way to be glad that there are more spaces available in other schools around this city? Why does that feel like a threat to you? I'm glad that there are students going to good schools and getting 3s 4s and 5s from McKinley Tech. That means it is a good option for some students and has the foundation to be a good option for even more high achieving schools down the road. I just don't get why anyone would see this reality (and it is a reality, not a delusion) as a problem.

Because it is a mediocre school and DCPS can and should do better. If you want to cheer on a mediocre school that is supposedly our science application school, then yay for you I guess. I would like to see higher quality not just for my kids but for all kids in this city.

So… you’re mad about a DCPS school that does a great job of meeting students where they are and helping them learn STEM topics (and that students and teachers love ) because… it doesn’t match YOUR ideal of what a magnet school should be? You seem insane.

[Anonymous]

What are McKinley’s college admissions like? If it’s actually solid would expect a good cohort of UMD-CP, UVA, plus top HBCUs.

[Anonymous]

Funny how in every other DCUM thread like this one, PARCC scores are trotted out to prove a school’s worth, but McKinley’s PARCC scores are apparently worthless even though they are higher than JR’s. Yes, I KNOW there are other factors than PARCC, but my point is that DCUM loves a higher PARCC score except for when it comes to McKinley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we just agree that McKinley is a good choice for many students. Is it the best school in the city right now? I don't think anyone has said that. But our city needs good choices for High School. McKinley Tech is one of them.

In previous years, many white students would make a point to find their way into Jackson Reed or School Without Walls. Given the change in admission for SWW and the fact that it's much harder to find a spot in Jackson Reed than it was, things are changing. Another change is that many charter middle schools are decent and even good. More white students are looking for a place to attend high school and won't be attending SWW or Jackson Reed. If your kid has a spot in those schools, great! If they don't why can't you find a way to be glad that there are more spaces available in other schools around this city? Why does that feel like a threat to you? I'm glad that there are students going to good schools and getting 3s 4s and 5s from McKinley Tech. That means it is a good option for some students and has the foundation to be a good option for even more high achieving schools down the road. I just don't get why anyone would see this reality (and it is a reality, not a delusion) as a problem.

Because it is a mediocre school and DCPS can and should do better. If you want to cheer on a mediocre school that is supposedly our science application school, then yay for you I guess. I would like to see higher quality not just for my kids but for all kids in this city.

So… you’re mad about a DCPS school that does a great job of meeting students where they are and helping them learn STEM topics (and that students and teachers love ) because… it doesn’t match YOUR ideal of what a magnet school should be? You seem insane.

+1 The argument that the school should be ”higher quality” is completely tone deaf. First of all, McKinley is a title 1 school—overall, kids going there will have fewer resources than kids going to JR, or SWW, for example. Kids with a team of tutors and other paid for extracurriculars will almost always outperform a school with kids who do not have those things. That doesn’t mean what the school offers is subpar, or that the teaching is subpar. It means that the school is a real life mirror of one part of our world—there are smart and motivated kids who have not had the kinds of opportunities as some others, but they still want to go to a good school. McKinley accomplishes a lot with these kids, and very motivated kids can do incredibly well there. As many do. Arguing that the school should be better makes no sense in this context. How about let’s erase all systemic inequities, and then let’s see if schools seem so different? Or let’s not let rich parents in higher tax brackets raise hundreds of thousands for their schools while parents in lower tax brackets can barely raise a few hundred. If you really cared about better schools for all, you’d be working on those issues rather than mindlessly and ignorantly trashing a very good school with hard working teachers and kids. As others have pointed out—not all kids will thrive in an environment like SWW or Banneker. Many aren’t ready, and they’d probably be counseled out, if they even made it in the door. But maybe they can thrive at a good school with more leeway that is prepared to give them more support. (McKinley will take kids with a 3.0 average—not that all have a GPA as low as 3.0 coming in, but some will.) Not every kid is going to be a 4.0 student (shocker), but that doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be a place for them. It’s like ya’ll want the Ivy leagues of H.S., and the schools for the failing kids, but heaven forbid there is an in between. If you don’t think the school is for your kid, great, don’t send them. No need to try to make a good school seem terrible. Ya’ll are like the Harvard grads who think all state colleges are trash by default.

[Anonymous]

Test scores are irrefutable until they contrast with white people’s choice hierarchy. Might make one think about what test scores mean to you. But that would require some reflection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you believe it is mediocre, but what should we do about the applicant pool? McKinley Tech does seem reasonably aligned with the student body that it is likely to get. It feels like the "it should be Bronx Science" people wouldn't send their kids there anyway, since it's not close enough to Ward 3 anyway.

I think parents actually would send them for the “Bronx Science” equivalent…but you have to start from scratch.

You can’t transition the current McKinley to that type of school because you won’t get the first Bronx Science class filled if there is still 3 years of the old McKinley.

So…how you actually make it happen is quite tricky.

Hear me out, what if little by little more high performing students start attending, pulled by the excellent teaching and atmosphere, and pushed by the fact that it's getting harder and harder to get into J.R., SWW and Banneker. The percentage of high performing students goes from 5% to 10% to 15%, etc. over the course of say, 10 years and then within a decade you have school with 50% high performing students. I think that would be a good outcome, don't you?

That's what the Magnet high school I attended did. We never had more than a cohort of, say 50% high performing kids. It may even have been 30%. And it was plenty to serve as a critical mass and it even served as a pressure cooker environment. Which, from my perspective, isn't a great thing but it did push me to perform to get a higher rank. To me, this kind of school would serve our school and our city well. And it's quite possible that this is where McKinley is headed if it keeps attracting good leadership, teachers and students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you believe it is mediocre, but what should we do about the applicant pool? McKinley Tech does seem reasonably aligned with the student body that it is likely to get. It feels like the "it should be Bronx Science" people wouldn't send their kids there anyway, since it's not close enough to Ward 3 anyway.

I think parents actually would send them for the “Bronx Science” equivalent…but you have to start from scratch.

You can’t transition the current McKinley to that type of school because you won’t get the first Bronx Science class filled if there is still 3 years of the old McKinley.

So…how you actually make it happen is quite tricky.

Hear me out, what if little by little more high performing students start attending, pulled by the excellent teaching and atmosphere, and pushed by the fact that it's getting harder and harder to get into J.R., SWW and Banneker. The percentage of high performing students goes from 5% to 10% to 15%, etc. over the course of say, 10 years and then within a decade you have school with 50% high performing students. I think that would be a good outcome, don't you?

That's what the Magnet high school I attended did. We never had more than a cohort of, say 50% high performing kids. It may even have been 30%. And it was plenty to serve as a critical mass and it even served as a pressure cooker environment. Which, from my perspective, isn't a great thing but it did push me to perform to get a higher rank. To me, this kind of school would serve our school and our city well. And it's quite possible that this is where McKinley is headed if it keeps attracting good leadership, teachers and students.

Good luck with that. People have been making the same argument for the last 25 years or longer. And here we are—

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know you believe it is mediocre, but what should we do about the applicant pool? McKinley Tech does seem reasonably aligned with the student body that it is likely to get. It feels like the "it should be Bronx Science" people wouldn't send their kids there anyway, since it's not close enough to Ward 3 anyway.

The student body served by McKinley Tech would do just fine at reasonable quality comprehensive high schools that offer strong math and science electives. But DCPS prefers to create a whole bunch of programs that it does a terrible job of managing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you believe it is mediocre, but what should we do about the applicant pool? McKinley Tech does seem reasonably aligned with the student body that it is likely to get. It feels like the "it should be Bronx Science" people wouldn't send their kids there anyway, since it's not close enough to Ward 3 anyway.

I think parents actually would send them for the “Bronx Science” equivalent…but you have to start from scratch.

You can’t transition the current McKinley to that type of school because you won’t get the first Bronx Science class filled if there is still 3 years of the old McKinley.

So…how you actually make it happen is quite tricky.

Hear me out, what if little by little more high performing students start attending, pulled by the excellent teaching and atmosphere, and pushed by the fact that it's getting harder and harder to get into J.R., SWW and Banneker. The percentage of high performing students goes from 5% to 10% to 15%, etc. over the course of say, 10 years and then within a decade you have school with 50% high performing students. I think that would be a good outcome, don't you?

That's what the Magnet high school I attended did. We never had more than a cohort of, say 50% high performing kids. It may even have been 30%. And it was plenty to serve as a critical mass and it even served as a pressure cooker environment. Which, from my perspective, isn't a great thing but it did push me to perform to get a higher rank. To me, this kind of school would serve our school and our city well. And it's quite possible that this is where McKinley is headed if it keeps attracting good leadership, teachers and students.

Good luck with that. People have been making the same argument for the last 25 years or longer. And here we are—

It's interesting that you would argue that DC schools haven't changed in 25 years. I would argue that they have changed quite a bit. In 2002, 15% of the District's students attended Charter Schools. Now, that number is more than double the number it was at in 2007. The number of students in the school system as a whole has grown by about that same number. Charter schools are "growing the pie" of students who stay in DC for education.

That can be seen clearly in the district's own statistics.
https://osse.dc.gov/release/osse-announces-audited-dc-enrollment-numbers-2022-23-school-year

It makes sense that as charter high schools are now basically impossible to get into after 5th grade, (DCI was once an option to enter into at High School), and as SWW no longer considers test scores, some students will have made it all the way through middle school in public schools in DC but find their zoned high school to be unacceptable. To be honest, unless you're attending JR, who wouldn't find their zoned high school unacceptable?

The conversation around both Banneker and SWW has changed significantly in the last few years. Both are seen as good options and competitive.

I'm just saying that, when you've been reading this board for over a decade like I have, you notice that how schools are talked about changes. I think it's more likely than not that McKinley Tech will attract more high performing students. And if they can educate them well (which I believe they can) then that's a good thing.

Whether or not the word on the street or conversation on this board will change is another matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m a DCPS HS teacher and no way would I send my kid to McKinley over Walls. Walls has a much higher performing student cohort

Which is great if you are part of that higher-performing student cohort. But what if you're not? If you come to Walls, take Algebra 1 as freshman, and don't score proficient, that puts you in like the bottom 10%. Does the school know what to do with you? Are you getting the opportunities that Walls is helpful for? At McKinley, that's three-quarters of the freshman class. No one is going to write you off, they will work with you, and you will have a peer group and classes being taught at an appropriate level.

A student taking Algebra 1 as a freshman should know he's at least year (really, 2) behind the curve already at Walls or JR. It would be advisable to take the course in summer school before freshman year to prepare, and depending on summer school results take be well prepared for Algebra 1 as a freshman or push on to Geometry.



I have been a teacher my entire life, and my kid is a very high achiever: 4.0, extracurriculars, etc. I prefer McKinley over Walls for what they offer and for the culture of the school. I’m sure the kids at Walls are great, but the school culture comes off as a little toxic (I get that from a teacher there I’ve spoken to who told me a little about how the kids interact on a daily basis.) We are also black, and I’ve heard SWW leans toward being self-segregated. I also know that even “the best” schools and “the best” teachers can show unfair treatment to black kids. I’m not saying Walls does this, but I am saying that there are a lot of factors involved than just test scores when considering schools for our family. We also like Banneker, but McKinley is high on our list. And Banneker cannot rival McKinley’s engineering program (nor can Walls), and my kid is interested in that program. So I’m not clutching my pearls that McKinley will let in some kids with a 3.0. Some parents need to get real. That’s just dumb. The kids there are serious, the teachers are dedicated, and it’s an all around solid school. If my kid got to study with Ken Lesley, I’d be very happy. I went to the open house last night, and I couldn’t believe what these kids do or the opportunities they get. Too much to list here. I’m aware that not all the kids at McKinley are performing at the highest level as the kids at the open house, but many are doing spectacular things. My kid is excited to potentially join that cohort, and I have no doubt he’d thrive at McKinley. If someone’s knee jerk reaction is that it’s not a good school without having actually investigated by going to open houses, STEM Fests, talking to students, teachers, admins, fellow parents, etc., then I’m glad they are staying away. I don’t think McKinley is interested in parents like them either. Win Win all around.