Canceling $10k of student loan debt is stupid.

[Anonymous]

There needs to be some sort of collateral for the debt or it needs to be dischargeable in bankruptcy. This would drastically reduce the amount people could borrow and help force college costs down. Otherwise, it’s just kicking the can down the road. Avid Democrat who went to college & grad school and see this as Biden buying votes, so I can’t imagine what non college educated folks think.

[Anonymous]

It's very interesting they don't mention a tax year for forgiveness. They just say "during the pandemic".

[Anonymous]

Fascinating how no one complains when all PPP loans were forgiven. Every right wing conservative organization currently complaining about this action got $$$ in PPP loans forgiven and it’s remarkable that they never complained about that.

Fascinating how no one complains when Congress uses your tax dollars to buy another Coast Guard cutter that the Coast Guard says they don’t need and don’t want and can’t use. Or fighter jets we can’t use. Or bailing out Wall Street. Or any other way our collective money is used to help filthy rich companies or for senators to pass out your money to get themselves re-elected.

Nope, in this country we’re just fine letting that happen every day. But if we spend a dime on SNAP for our most struggling citizens or try to help unbury a generation from debt, then we go online and complain about it. Pathetic.

For the record I was a desperately poor first generation college student who relied on loans, paid them off, and have no problem with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fascinating how no one complains when all PPP loans were forgiven. Every right wing conservative organization currently complaining about this action got $$$ in PPP loans forgiven and it’s remarkable that they never complained about that.

Fascinating how no one complains when Congress uses your tax dollars to buy another Coast Guard cutter that the Coast Guard says they don’t need and don’t want and can’t use. Or fighter jets we can’t use. Or bailing out Wall Street. Or any other way our collective money is used to help filthy rich companies or for senators to pass out your money to get themselves re-elected.

Nope, in this country we’re just fine letting that happen every day. But if we spend a dime on SNAP for our most struggling citizens or try to help unbury a generation from debt, then we go online and complain about it. Pathetic.

For the record I was a desperately poor first generation college student who relied on loans, paid them off, and have no problem with this.

What a bunch of dumbass whataboutisms.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Canceling any new or old measly $10k of student loan debt is the dumbest idea. What is the payment on that, a mere $100/month?

Instead, the struggling folks need help - the ones buried under 75k, 100k, 300k of debt for over 20 years who, because it's been 20 years, obviously they can't pay it! And I mean 20 years since school completion, not 20 years of qualifying payments, huge difference.

my 2 cents

For me, canceling $10k of my debt would have halved my monthly payment. I’m one of the teachers who got screwed over under the last administration. I was supposed to have my debt entirely forgiven.

Why is your student loan my responsibility to pay off?

Because the ballooning of federal student loans was a product of ill-guided federal policy (under both Dems and Republicans), student loan debt is hindering US economic growth, and college graduates are a benefit to an industrial/post-industrial society not just a private benefit. Also, student loans are the product of the divesting of support from state governments for public education that prior generations benefitted from. Think of it as a scholarship for completing college rather than a forgiveness of loan. I don't have student loans--but it was federal and state policies that created the student loan mess and I'm all for having them help clean it up. It will benefit everyone--student loan holders and not.

Bless your heart. If I thought about it as a scholarship for finishing college, I would be wealthy. I finished a PhD with zero debt by working my A$$ off and I am not getting a scholarship for graduating college and grad school. I understood the impact of taking out $100k worth of loans on my future, even at 18.
Explain how it benefits me or my children? I have been saving for their college since before they have been born, not hoping for loan forgiveness. I have worked jobs I don't particularly liked, lived in a house that is less than dcum standards, and driven by many a starbucks to save a dollar so that they can have a college education. Again, how is giving away 10k when there is no other clean up of the college cost mess included benefiting anyone but the people before them? I don't understand the logic.

You are not directly benefitted by many of the ways society gives out tax breaks, credits, benefits etc. but you want to participate in that society. You are getting some benefits somewhere--most PhD programs are subsidized by master's and undergraduate programs to pay for RAships, TAships and their associated benefits such as tuition remission, health insurance credits, stipends. This is because society values having experts and recognizes that PhD programs represent a long investment that may not make financial sense. Government agencies allow that sort of distribution of costs to reflect that--but it's not particularly "fair" on any individual level.

In your savings for your kids, did you benefit from the tax break of a 529 plan? Those tend to privilege those who have a HHI of 100k or higher a year, which is far above the median. Why should all the those making 60k pay for your tax break? (Because whether we call it a credit, a break, forgiveness, etc. it's all coming from the same pot).

I'm sure since you have finished a PhD (as have I) you have had the good fortune of more intelligence than average--I trust you can be aware that not everyone had the same intellectual resources to work with. You likely (though not necessarily) have some family background that helps you (even if your parents didn't go to college, and didn't contribute financially to your undergraduate education, they likely had higher than average intelligence if they have a kid who completed a PhD) I think it is problematic that we have drifted into being a society that encourages families to believe that every kid--regardless of their aptitude--will do better if they go to college, and I have no problem with correcting that. I am glad that the student loan forgiveness is being built on an earlier initiative for far greater investment in community college which makes sense for more students. I see the loan forgiveness as an effort to help clean up some of the mess that the government contributed to around college costs/encouragement of 4 year college for all, and I want it followed up with continued investment in community college, greater support for trade education and on-the-job training, and significant public investment in excellent 4 year colleges rather than treating it primarily as an individual good that people purchase.

Thank you. There are so many ways people are benefiting from government handouts. They are mad about $10k in forgiveness but paid for their kids education with a 529 that they got a tax break for. Ugh make it make sense!!!

Wealthy people somehow dont see tax breaks as handouts. They can bemoan 10k a kid while ignoring how much they aren't paying on not only their 529s, but their IRAs and 401ks not to mention their mortgage deductions.

You get tax breaks for paying student loans in the same way you get a tax break for paying a mortgage dum dum. What you call for would be like a home owner not only being able to write off mortgage interest, but also getting a portion of their mortgage principal reduced. That's not the same like you are trying to equate. Jeez you are really obtuse and willfully ignore the fact that millions of student loan borrowers already get tax breaks for borrowing.

I don't know how you can be this obtuse-- as adults you are also getting all sorts of "layered tax breaks." For having a kid--Maternity/paternity leave, child tax credit + dependent exemption+ 529 education benefit (for education at any level K-graduate)+ public school funding+ many other potential programs and credits that may come into play. The tax breaks for student loans are currently of miniscule value for most people--and a tiny portion of loans are subsidized. No one is getting more money back than they are paying in.

Conversely, the people getting social security/medicare right now get far more than they ever paid into the system--even inflation adjusted and with the time value of money.

This disparity is true on the state level. Connecticut, California, NY, MA, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington all pay vastly more in federal income taxes than they receive in federal funding.

Keep crying and moving the goal posts.

First you tried to claim that everyone who gets tax breaks for 401ks, IRAs, 529s etc. were getting 'handouts' and that that was a reason for student loan forgiveness. Then when it was pointed out that people paying student loans already DO get tax breaks for paying loans, you tried to move the goal posts to claim that upwards of $2500 per year in deduction is 'a miniscule drop in the bucket'.

Stop being a whiny entitled loser and pay your bills. Forgiveness is not the same as tax breaks in other areas. Student loan borrowers already get tax breaks, duh. Now you want to double dip because you are entitled and lazy.

I don't have any student loans! (I had one 8500 graduate student loan that I paid off years ago). Nor do my kids! I just think they make sense for society and think people who don't notice all the preferential treatments they also get in tax breaks just can't see the difference between a federal government deciding to forgive loans it gave out and other forms of debt.

Once again, student loan borrowers DO GET PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT. THEY GET TAX BREAKS OF UP TO $2500 PER YEAR. You want student loan borrowers to double dip in treatment now.

check the income requirements. Once you start making a reasonable income by DC standards, your benefit goes away.

Oh whoop dee doo. So sad borrowers making 6 figures are not eligible for tax deductions on student loans. There will be income caps on loan forgiveness too.

So we reward those that took at debt for worthless degrees that can't pay it back? Wtf

Yup, pretty much. Only the genders studies, philosophy majors, english majors, and all of the crappy degree holders get this free handout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canceling any new or old measly $10k of student loan debt is the dumbest idea. What is the payment on that, a mere $100/month?

Instead, the struggling folks need help - the ones buried under 75k, 100k, 300k of debt for over 20 years who, because it's been 20 years, obviously they can't pay it! And I mean 20 years since school completion, not 20 years of qualifying payments, huge difference.

my 2 cents

For me, canceling $10k of my debt would have halved my monthly payment. I’m one of the teachers who got screwed over under the last administration. I was supposed to have my debt entirely forgiven.

Why is your student loan my responsibility to pay off?

Because the ballooning of federal student loans was a product of ill-guided federal policy (under both Dems and Republicans), student loan debt is hindering US economic growth, and college graduates are a benefit to an industrial/post-industrial society not just a private benefit. Also, student loans are the product of the divesting of support from state governments for public education that prior generations benefitted from. Think of it as a scholarship for completing college rather than a forgiveness of loan. I don't have student loans--but it was federal and state policies that created the student loan mess and I'm all for having them help clean it up. It will benefit everyone--student loan holders and not.

Bless your heart. If I thought about it as a scholarship for finishing college, I would be wealthy. I finished a PhD with zero debt by working my A$$ off and I am not getting a scholarship for graduating college and grad school. I understood the impact of taking out $100k worth of loans on my future, even at 18.
Explain how it benefits me or my children? I have been saving for their college since before they have been born, not hoping for loan forgiveness. I have worked jobs I don't particularly liked, lived in a house that is less than dcum standards, and driven by many a starbucks to save a dollar so that they can have a college education. Again, how is giving away 10k when there is no other clean up of the college cost mess included benefiting anyone but the people before them? I don't understand the logic.

You are not directly benefitted by many of the ways society gives out tax breaks, credits, benefits etc. but you want to participate in that society. You are getting some benefits somewhere--most PhD programs are subsidized by master's and undergraduate programs to pay for RAships, TAships and their associated benefits such as tuition remission, health insurance credits, stipends. This is because society values having experts and recognizes that PhD programs represent a long investment that may not make financial sense. Government agencies allow that sort of distribution of costs to reflect that--but it's not particularly "fair" on any individual level.

In your savings for your kids, did you benefit from the tax break of a 529 plan? Those tend to privilege those who have a HHI of 100k or higher a year, which is far above the median. Why should all the those making 60k pay for your tax break? (Because whether we call it a credit, a break, forgiveness, etc. it's all coming from the same pot).

I'm sure since you have finished a PhD (as have I) you have had the good fortune of more intelligence than average--I trust you can be aware that not everyone had the same intellectual resources to work with. You likely (though not necessarily) have some family background that helps you (even if your parents didn't go to college, and didn't contribute financially to your undergraduate education, they likely had higher than average intelligence if they have a kid who completed a PhD) I think it is problematic that we have drifted into being a society that encourages families to believe that every kid--regardless of their aptitude--will do better if they go to college, and I have no problem with correcting that. I am glad that the student loan forgiveness is being built on an earlier initiative for far greater investment in community college which makes sense for more students. I see the loan forgiveness as an effort to help clean up some of the mess that the government contributed to around college costs/encouragement of 4 year college for all, and I want it followed up with continued investment in community college, greater support for trade education and on-the-job training, and significant public investment in excellent 4 year colleges rather than treating it primarily as an individual good that people purchase.

I finished my PhD in engineering and graduated without any debt. How much I know, the university gets paid for a graduate student - it is your PhD advisor that ended up footing the full bill + your stipend so university is not subsidizing anything. In fact, they add a significant amount of overhead on top.

For TAs, the departments pay grad students and they are much cheaper for them instead of hiring a faculty.

[Anonymous]

This is the dumbest policy imaginable, perfectly calibrated to maximize the divisiveness of this issue while accomplishing little of real benefit: (1) it will greatly alienate huge swathes of people who paid back their loans, often at great personal sacrifice, as it implicitly makes people who chose to do the right thing relatively worse off compared to those who didn’t, and it is likely an illegal giveaway to Biden’s voter base to boot, while (2) the amount is so small that it won’t materially benefit the really sympathetic cases of people with huge loan balances that they can never get out from under, while at the same time allowing debt forgiveness advocates to preen about how people who have a problem with this are really just selfish bastards.

A much more rational approach would simply allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy, as indeed they may actually be as courts take a harder look at that issue. This allows student loan debtors to get a fresh start while not making loan payers feel like chumps for not getting a piece of the action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canceling any new or old measly $10k of student loan debt is the dumbest idea. What is the payment on that, a mere $100/month?

Instead, the struggling folks need help - the ones buried under 75k, 100k, 300k of debt for over 20 years who, because it's been 20 years, obviously they can't pay it! And I mean 20 years since school completion, not 20 years of qualifying payments, huge difference.

my 2 cents

For me, canceling $10k of my debt would have halved my monthly payment. I’m one of the teachers who got screwed over under the last administration. I was supposed to have my debt entirely forgiven.

Why is your student loan my responsibility to pay off?

Because the ballooning of federal student loans was a product of ill-guided federal policy (under both Dems and Republicans), student loan debt is hindering US economic growth, and college graduates are a benefit to an industrial/post-industrial society not just a private benefit. Also, student loans are the product of the divesting of support from state governments for public education that prior generations benefitted from. Think of it as a scholarship for completing college rather than a forgiveness of loan. I don't have student loans--but it was federal and state policies that created the student loan mess and I'm all for having them help clean it up. It will benefit everyone--student loan holders and not.

Bless your heart. If I thought about it as a scholarship for finishing college, I would be wealthy. I finished a PhD with zero debt by working my A$$ off and I am not getting a scholarship for graduating college and grad school. I understood the impact of taking out $100k worth of loans on my future, even at 18.
Explain how it benefits me or my children? I have been saving for their college since before they have been born, not hoping for loan forgiveness. I have worked jobs I don't particularly liked, lived in a house that is less than dcum standards, and driven by many a starbucks to save a dollar so that they can have a college education. Again, how is giving away 10k when there is no other clean up of the college cost mess included benefiting anyone but the people before them? I don't understand the logic.

You are not directly benefitted by many of the ways society gives out tax breaks, credits, benefits etc. but you want to participate in that society. You are getting some benefits somewhere--most PhD programs are subsidized by master's and undergraduate programs to pay for RAships, TAships and their associated benefits such as tuition remission, health insurance credits, stipends. This is because society values having experts and recognizes that PhD programs represent a long investment that may not make financial sense. Government agencies allow that sort of distribution of costs to reflect that--but it's not particularly "fair" on any individual level.

In your savings for your kids, did you benefit from the tax break of a 529 plan? Those tend to privilege those who have a HHI of 100k or higher a year, which is far above the median. Why should all the those making 60k pay for your tax break? (Because whether we call it a credit, a break, forgiveness, etc. it's all coming from the same pot).

I'm sure since you have finished a PhD (as have I) you have had the good fortune of more intelligence than average--I trust you can be aware that not everyone had the same intellectual resources to work with. You likely (though not necessarily) have some family background that helps you (even if your parents didn't go to college, and didn't contribute financially to your undergraduate education, they likely had higher than average intelligence if they have a kid who completed a PhD) I think it is problematic that we have drifted into being a society that encourages families to believe that every kid--regardless of their aptitude--will do better if they go to college, and I have no problem with correcting that. I am glad that the student loan forgiveness is being built on an earlier initiative for far greater investment in community college which makes sense for more students. I see the loan forgiveness as an effort to help clean up some of the mess that the government contributed to around college costs/encouragement of 4 year college for all, and I want it followed up with continued investment in community college, greater support for trade education and on-the-job training, and significant public investment in excellent 4 year colleges rather than treating it primarily as an individual good that people purchase.

I finished my PhD in engineering and graduated without any debt. How much I know, the university gets paid for a graduate student - it is your PhD advisor that ended up footing the full bill + your stipend so university is not subsidizing anything. In fact, they add a significant amount of overhead on top.

For TAs, the departments pay grad students and they are much cheaper for them instead of hiring a faculty.

If your PhD advisor subsidized you then it was likely with a federal research grant. And those are obligated to pay tuition credits and health benefits. It's not like they were paying you out of pocket.

[Anonymous]

I'm really surprised he has the authority to do this via executive order. Not just the debt cancellation but also reducing IBR programs from 20 to 10 years and reducing the percentage of discretionary income paid towards loans from 10% to 5%.

I imagine this will be tied up in court for quite some time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised he has the authority to do this via executive order. Not just the debt cancellation but also reducing IBR programs from 20 to 10 years and reducing the percentage of discretionary income paid towards loans from 10% to 5%.

I imagine this will be tied up in court for quite some time.

Why do you think he doesn't have the authority? It's the federal loan program only--he wouldn't have authority over private loans etc. but it does seem that this is within his purview.

[Anonymous]

So basically the global minimum tax for corporations in the just-passed Inflation Reduction Act is paying for this.

[Anonymous]

Remember, if you want another 10k in handouts, vote Biden in 2024.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember, if you want another 10k in handouts, vote Biden in 2024.

Trump gave farmers 16 BILLION. In direct cash. Cancelling a portion of your federal debt does not equal a cash handout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember, if you want another 10k in handouts, vote Biden in 2024.

Trump gave farmers 16 BILLION. In direct cash. Cancelling a portion of your federal debt does not equal a cash handout.

Way less than what this costs. Plus don’t you want to eat? Do you want to be dependent on imports from china?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised he has the authority to do this via executive order. Not just the debt cancellation but also reducing IBR programs from 20 to 10 years and reducing the percentage of discretionary income paid towards loans from 10% to 5%.

I imagine this will be tied up in court for quite some time.

Why do you think he doesn't have the authority? It's the federal loan program only--he wouldn't have authority over private loans etc. but it does seem that this is within his purview.

PP here and usually the legislative branch has authority over spending measures so I'm somewhat surprised that this can be done this way. BTW, my question was shared by Biden himself maybe a year or so ago during a town hall when he questioned whether he had the authority to do this. That said, I am not an expert on the '65 Higher Education Act.