Is this a little weird?

[Anonymous]

Okay, people, I'd like your thoughts. Consider the following scenario: (some details changed to ensure there is no personally identifying information in here). One of my best girlfriends recently started dating a divorced man-- call him Sam. He has two children, a thirteen-year-old girl and a sixteen-year-old boy. His ex-wife had serious psychiatric problems, and four years ago-- shortly after their divorce-- she died in a car accident. Despite all this, Sam's children seem happy and well-adjusted, and for the most part things couldn't be peachier (My friend is Sam's first serious girlfriend since his marriage ended, and so far, she and his kids seem to be getting along wonderfully-- she also has a five-year-old son of her own).

But amidst all this peachiness, she reports on one thing that is weirding her out slightly. Sam's adolescent daughter is very affectionate to her dad, and thinks nothing of cuddling up to him, sitting in his lap to watch TV, even sometimes crawling into bed to sleep next to Sam at night if she has a bad dream. Sam mentioned this to my girlfriend without any self-consciousness at all-- it was in the context of, "Oh, my poor [DD], sometimes she still has bad dreams so she comes and sleeps in my bed with me, I wish she didn't have those dreams, poor kid.")

She finds the degree of physical closeness between Sam and his daughter a little disturbing, and I think she's right to be a little disturbed. To be clear: neither of us thinks for one minute that anything inappropriately sexual is going on. Sam's a thoughtful, deeply moral dad, and his daughter's seems like a terrific and affectionate girl; he clearly sees nothing at all wrong and is just still thinking of his daughter as a needy little girl who sometimes needs to snuggle up to a parent. We can all relate to that. But... isn't it a good general principle that a grown man should not be letting his post-pubertal teenage daughter sit on his lap, much less share his bed?

Sam's been a single parent for five years now, so it's easy to imagine how this could have come about: what kind of single parent could turn away a sad nine-year-old girl whose troubled mother first left the family home, then died in a car crash, who just wants to snuggle up? But now maybe he just can't quite see that it's no longer appropriate to maintain the same kinds of physical closeness with girl who's no longer nine, but who now has breasts and uses tampons.

Are we being prudish, or are is my girlfriend right to be a little disturbed by this? And if so, any advice about how she can talk about this with Sam without seeming censorious or mean-spirited about his parenting?

[Anonymous]

You're being prudish definitely. It seems that your friend has not had much experience with young teens. Just on the basis of her (jealous?) reaction to the Dad and daughter interaction, she should probably move on to someone with younger children that have not had such a trauma in their lives.

[Anonymous]

You and your friend are being very prudish. I don't see anything wrong with Sam's closeness to daughter especially in light of her traumatic childhood. Sam sounds like a terrific dad and a keeper.

[Anonymous]

I think Sam's daughter will probably soon be reaching an age where the physical closeness with dad will change. But I think this is an issue between Sam and his kids. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with it, based on your description. And I think your friend shouldn't get involved. If she's uncomfortable with it, she should move on. But I don't think she should do anything to try to change the behavior.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PP. Maybe because of the trauma this girl has suffered she may be less emotionally developed than her peers and for that reason, still feels like she needs that closeness with her Dad. No doubt it will change on its own as she grows up more and becomes more of a woman but I think at 13, given what she has been through, giving her a bit of latitude is a good idea. Especially given her father has a new woman in his life for the first time since her mom left . Give the girl a break I say.

[Anonymous]

Thirteen is an age that is right on the cusp -- while some thirteen-year-olds might be especially precocious, others are still much more immature (and I don't mean that in a bad way). It's still young enough that I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with the behavior that your friend has witnessed, particularly in light of the traumas this young girl has experienced. Even without the trauma of mom's recent death, sitting on dad's lap and occasionally getting into the bed with dad when sick/upset seems pretty normal to me (especially given that there isn't a mother around). At some point, daughter will get more self-conscious and she will probably stop on her own. I'm inclined to think that until that happens, dad should comfort her. Pushing her away would probably make her feel unnecessarily ashamed or uncomfortable.

I'm 30 and I still occasionally curl up on the arm of my dad's chair to hug him -- not sitting directly on his lap, but pretty close.

[Anonymous]

I agree that it is easy to imagine how this situation arose. However, I think any father is doing his daughter a HUGE disservice by allowing it to continue into adolescence. It puts the daughter into the very confusing and awkward position of possibly experience sexual attraction to her own father. She deserves for her father to establish more appropriate boundaries that better reflect her developmental stage.

[Anonymous]

It puts the daughter into the very confusing and awkward position of possibly experience sexual attraction to her own father.

PP here -- totally disagree. An otherwise healthy girl is not going to suddenly develop a sexual attraction to her own father just because she sits on his lap at age thirteen (or, frankly, at fourteen, or sixteen, or 25).

[Anonymous]

I think the level/nature of physical contact between any two people is really personal. I think a warm handshake is an appropriate greeting between husband and wife. No, I'm kidding, but really I don't hug anyone but family, or maybe my friends if they are actively weeping. So I'm definitely not sitting in anyone's lap. However, I don't think the father and daughter in question are weird -- just different from me. I agree with PP that as the daughter matures the situation will evolve naturally.

[Anonymous]

OP here, thanks for these responses and I will draw this thread to my girlfriend's attention. We may just be a little prudish! (We're both on the no co-sleeping side of the parenting world even with babies, so....)

[Anonymous]

I think it's weird, and if I were your friend, it would make me uncomfortable. Personally, I think when teenagers get to the age where they're starting to kiss members of the opposite sex and start having "boyfriends" and "girlfriends", cuddling and excessive touching with parents is a little weird.

That said, I'm not sure how on earth to bring it up...

[Anonymous]

Wish I had answers, but what I can offer is my perspective: when I hit my early teen years, my mom tried to give me the whole, "you're a woman now..." talk but I misunderstood it to mean that my womanly body/monthly periods was something to be ashamed of. It felt like when I was a little girl I was delightful and welcome to snuggle with my daddy but once I started to become a woman, I had to emotionally stand on my own, away from my Daddy because i now had this VERY unwelcome woman's body. Umm...yes, I'm in therapy now because I developed an eating disorder--tried to keep my body as small and undeveloped as possible in order to stay 'childlike'--so I could be close to my dad.
I hope my short story provides some insight as you determine what needs to occur with this Father/Daughter relationship. I'm simply providing some 'insight' into how I was rushed into being an 'adult' before I was emotionally ready...therefore I misunderstood and heaped a whole lot of shame on myself for having a maturing body.
My advice: leave it alone

[Anonymous]

it sounds prudish to me, because it does sound like she has been through a lot and may not be as developmentally independent as others are imagining "typical" 13 year olds to be. there is no typical when it pertains to a specific situation like this, it seems.

now if she were 18 and sleeping in daddy's bed, i might be a little concerned... but 13 really is still in that weird transitional area between little girl and teenaged brat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it is easy to imagine how this situation arose. However, I think any father is doing his daughter a HUGE disservice by allowing it to continue into adolescence. It puts the daughter into the very confusing and awkward position of possibly experience sexual attraction to her own father. She deserves for her father to establish more appropriate boundaries that better reflect her developmental stage.

Even if this were all true (which I completely disagree with), is it the new girlfriend's role to fix? I strongly doubt it.

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP's. His daughter will determine on her own when this no longer feels right and the behavior will end naturally. In the meantime there's nothing wrong with it as long as appropriate boundaries are maintained, and it sounds like they are.