s/o - if your 1st-grader's NNAT score isn't in-pool, are you doing anything now?

[Anonymous]

I'm disappointed my DC missed the pool by a few points (looks like by just one or two questions - ugh!! - and my child came home that day and told me the test was easy; I think DC didn't read through all the answers carefully & just picked the first one that looked good without looking at all possible choices - which is not terribly surprising for a 1st-grader who has never taken any type of standardized test before).

Anyway, having an in-pool score would have alleviated a lot of the stress next year so I know I will be on pins & needles waiting for CogAT scores next Jan. I'm not doing anything now, but I do have the WISC in the back of my mind.

Curious if folks are already planning for a WISC, planning to prep for CogAT next year, or thinking about anything else re this process if your DC did not test into the pool on the NNAT. (Flame away if you must!)

[Anonymous]

I expect that you and I are going to get flamed along the way here, but I am having the exact same questions and feelings as you are (I could have written your post). My daughter is just a few points low on NNAT, it seems like everyone else and their cousins are 99%'ers, and I was really hoping my dear girl would make the pool with NNAT to make my life easier next year. To make matters worse, CogAt scores came out this year just days before parent referrals were due . . . if that happens next year, we won't have time to get a WISC if needed to support the initial package. I'm thinking a high WISC in the initial package could actually color the GBRS (wouldn't a teacher be more likely to "see" giftedness if she's looking at an exceptional WISC score in the file when she fills out the GBRS)? So, if I need to get the WISC early next year because I won't know the CogAt score until a few days before parent referrals are due, why not just get the WISC done now so that I know what I'm dealing with?

[Anonymous]

Being in pool means very little. Legally, it means that the child is automatically evaluated, meaning the local AAP screening committee will fill in the GBRS.

The same thing will happen with parental referral. And 130 with a 10 GBRS will probably not get in, but 125 with a 12 GBRS will get it.

Don't worry about the CogAT. Let the kids enjoy the summer.

[Anonymous]

13:09 here. I get what you're saying, but think my DD is more likely to get a GBRS 12 with a higher score in her file. I may not know her CogAt scores when I'm filling out the parent referral. Our base school sucks, I've thankfully got my older 2 in the Center (far better than our base school) and I can't afford private (but can afford the damn WISC). But when should I get the WISC? If it makes sense to have it before I parent refer, why not now?

[Anonymous]

They say iq flattens out at age 7 so that is ideal.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I do not understand, but are you saying the GBRS as done by your school factors in the test scores? Or are you saying you expect DD to get a 12, so you want higher scores?

If you want to WISC, best time is probably when things are quiet -- not after the CogAT comes out but before screening file is due, and not during the time for submitting appeals.

[Anonymous]

The GBRS is not based at all on a child's test scores. It is based on what behaviors the teacher sees in the classroom.

I would wait. A child who is just a couple points outside of the pool should still be in the 98th percentile, and could very likely get in without the need for a WISC. And if you are already set on the WISC, wait until second grade. The committee wants the testing to be recent, and if they see that you jumped the gun and had your child take the WISC in 1st grade they might think you're a bit nutty.

[Anonymous]

So, what score would you all feel confident with? 132+? 140+?

[Anonymous]

And I'd take all of this with a grain of salt. Yes, it appears like everyone is getting 99%, but only the 99%'s are posting. So it's not a valid sample.

[Anonymous]

The bell curve mean is 100. 2 sigma (Standard Deviations) above mean is 97%-98%. NNAT2 SD is 16, while NNAT SD and Cogat SD are 15. So 132 of NNAT2 is same percentile as 130 NNAT. That is national rank. Are FCPS kids scored higher? Maybe, I didn't find the statistic data of FCPS. In the letter from DC school, 105 is the mean. If that is true mean, 137 NNAT would be 98% in FCPS 1st graders.

[Anonymous]

That is a good question. What was the lowest score that was 98 percent? I think 138 or 139 was the lowest of the 99 percent. Anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, what score would you all feel confident with? 132+? 140+?

I think I would feel safe with anything above 140

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bell curve mean is 100. 2 sigma (Standard Deviations) above mean is 97%-98%. NNAT2 SD is 16, while NNAT SD and Cogat SD are 15. So 132 of NNAT2 is same percentile as 130 NNAT. That is national rank. Are FCPS kids scored higher? Maybe, I didn't find the statistic data of FCPS. In the letter from DC school, 105 is the mean. If that is true mean, 137 NNAT would be 98% in FCPS 1st graders.

Mumbo jumbo, Fairfax kids aren't "scored higher", but they do score higher than the national pool (more smart kids live in Fairfax than in other regions of the country).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The GBRS is not based at all on a child's test scores. It is based on what behaviors the teacher sees in the classroom.

I would wait. A child who is just a couple points outside of the pool should still be in the 98th percentile, and could very likely get in without the need for a WISC. And if you are already set on the WISC, wait until second grade. The committee wants the testing to be recent, and if they see that you jumped the gun and had your child take the WISC in 1st grade they might think you're a bit nutty.

You really have no idea what goes on in the thinking process of the evaluator. I know the local committee (teacher, AART, principal) has the kid's whole file in front of them when they assign the GBRS, and human nature would suggest that a kid whose file contains a CogAt composite of 107 will be evaluated differently than a kid whose composite is 140. And I have to decide whether to include WISC scores in the file BEFORE I know my kid's CogAt composite.

[Anonymous]

You really have no idea what goes on in the thinking process of the evaluator. I know the local committee (teacher, AART, principal) has the kid's whole file in front of them when they assign the GBRS, and human nature would suggest that a kid whose file contains a CogAt composite of 107 will be evaluated differently than a kid whose composite is 140. And I have to decide whether to include WISC scores in the file BEFORE I know my kid's CogAt composite.

I don't think you have to make that decision that early. You should know the CogAT score before the school completes the GBRS.

Think about when they will fill out the GBRS. It should be after the school has looked at all the CogAT scores b/c before that, they don't know who is in the pool. (I have read on this forum that at at least one school, they do a GBRS for every child and keep it in the child's file, but I don't know how that works - at our school, I am 99% sure they only do it for AAP screening.) The school gets the scores, determines the pool, mails everything to the parents, and starts assembling screening files for the pool kids. So 2 things can happen: (1) your child's CogAT scores are in the pool, so you get them in the mail along with the in-pool letter around the same time that the school has begun assembling screening files and filling out the GBRS -- BUT your child is IN the pool, so you already have high CogAT scores in the file, or (2) your child is NOT in the pool, which you will find out when you receive the CogAT scores - at this point, the school is NOT filling out the GBRS because you haven't parent-referred, so (assuming you have the WISC in hand), you complete the referral packet and include the WISC scores, and when the school gets it, they will complete a GBRS for your child, having access to everything you submitted, including WISC scores.

I don't disgree with most of what you said, and I also will likely want to have WISC scores in my pocket in case we need them, but I don't know that the school will complete the GBRS before you have a chance to get the WISC scores into the file. The only way I see that happening is if your child is IN the pool and the school starts working on the GBRS before you receive the CogAT scores in the mail. But if your child is in the pool, you may not even need the WISC scores at all. My plan is to have WISC scores at the ready and submit if needed. Just need to decide when I want to have the WISC administered.