FAQ: What is the "Big 3"? (or "Big 5", or "Big 10", etc)

[Anonymous]

Thank you 10/49 (followed by the pits provided actual published data on schools)! This is the most useful and informative reply thus far. It actually provided information to help me choose. Don't care about "Big" whatever; just want the right match for my child and family as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Correction: ...post providing actual published data...

[Anonymous]

Love the poem... Well done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow! I am so glad I am not going to send my kid to private school with the kids of everyone on this trail.....

Funny, I'm glad I did, as they are critical enough thinkers to know that anonymous posters on the internet could be ... anyone!

[Anonymous]

As a current St.Albans student, let me clear some things up:
1)Sidwell' and St. Albans' college matriculation is practically equal. Like any school, some classes are slightly stronger in terms of college admissions than others are, but the overall aura of the schools are essentially the same.
2) I was accepted into both of those schools, and have no doubt that either of them is a top academic private school in the country. After coming from a large public school, I found the atmosphere at STA to be much different from there. Both these schools will push you to your limit academically, as I know this from having many friends at Sidwell/GDS who can confirm this.

[Anonymous]

Does WIS make the list?

[Anonymous]

Has anyone heard of or looked at Blyth Templeton? It's more affordable but not sure what it will be like since it's new...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone heard of or looked at Blyth Templeton? It's more affordable but not sure what it will be like since it's new...

You should start a new thread on this school instead of discussing it here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not see what is so funny about putting Potomac on the list. I do not have a child at this school but, I know it to be a great school and very competitive. Many of you are so close minded. If the school is not in DC you do not deem it worthy of a high ranking. Only DC parents obsess over this shit because your optons (DCPS) are the worst and many MD an VA parents are not betting the horses with their child's education and have decent options in the instance their DC does not get in,can not, or choose not to go private. These schools are most sought after because of location and demand. GDS used to be a not so fabulous school, in fact it was where students went who could not get into other schools! Now it is considered a TT school! Please! If Potomac was located in DC many of you would be running to this school. along with many other schools located outside of DC. Worry about your child. Help them to be succesful, you determine that, not a school!

Absolute bullshit about GDS historically - now many alums consider it has sold out. GDS was the first integrated private school and was only founded in 1953 which is why it does not have the cachet or the name recognition of St Alban's, which in my father's day was not even considered good enough to stay for high school so all 3 boys went to Groton. The population of GDS was originally, and still when I went there, composed of children of the intelligentsia, whom because they were either minorities or Jewish, or just wanted to keep their children away from all the snobby children in DC (where merit is based on who your Daddy or Mommy is or who they work for (whereas in NYC it is based on how much money mommy or daddy or grandaddy made (not sure which is worse)). All had no interest in social climbing for themselves or through their children but rather education, sent their kids to a high school still in a converted office building in the late 80s up the road from the lower school (where the River School is now, but without the conversions the money the River school could put into it.) For most students and their parents, it was their top choice. And they had come from the lower school. For some refugees like me from NCS, it was our top choice but not our parents. I flat out begged the head of Sidwell at the time, Earl Harrison, not to accept me because I wanted to go to GDS. He honored my request. Madeira didn't, but I won anyway because at that time GDS college acceptances were better than Sidwell's, and on par with STA. NCS was not on par with either, but there was still this insane idea that it did not matter for the girls of the social elite.

Our teachers were mostly from the 60s, talked a lot about respecting personal space (because we had none), we had an open campus by default because we had no cafeteria, and our kids did not shoplift from the drugstore or the safeway like the kids from Alban Towers. We bought lunch or brown bagged it, and ate anywhere we wanted to. We did not have a regulation size gym, we did have a smoking lounge (but only for cigarettes), and as for playing fields, our Grasshoppers used the Palisades tennis courts (which at the time were dumpy) and our cross country team used Battery Kemble. And no one ever talked about how we did.

As usual, my grandparents didn't give a shit about the girl, who was supposed to get a MRS degree. So she stayed at NCS while the boys went to Groton and went to Radcliffe anyway - at a time when "Radcliffe girls" were still only allowed in the main library for certain limited hours. As my mother says now "I don't know why we didn't throw rocks through the windows." She got the best scholarship to Radcliffe but did not want to go because Harvard boys did not want to date Radcliffe girls and she thought at 17 it meant she would never get married!!!!!!! What she did not realize was that the Harvard men who were there on their own merit (at a time when there was still a quota for Jews) did actually come to their senses at some point and marry Radcliffe women because they wanted to produce babies with brains. At least that was true of some Harvard men like my father. They did not overlap - missed each other by one year - and now go to reunions together, it is kind of cute.

My husband and I met at Princeton (we sent 5 kids that year but it was NOT a popular choice for GDSers), sent a load to Harvard, and oddly enough, the most to Yale. But I guess it varies from class to class (this year Sidwell had the most NMSF and GDS blew it.) Doesn't matter to most of us, who think GDS changed with the move and would never send our kids there. I met the most arrogant man who is a GDS parent who was intoxicated and hosting a party at his house in Kent on Halloween, which I have attended since I was a young child (when it was under different ownership). But he kept talking about how GDS kids were the future leaders of America and he had other (mostly minority parents from GDS which REALLY pissed me off in his thrall) talking about how he was on good terms with the principal and how "money talks" and how he could manipulate the poor SOB if everyone just agreed they would only donate for one thing. He wanted some exchange program in Beijjing - great, go send your young kids into danger, and many other things. But there was at least one thing he did NOT want, and I wish I could remember what it was. I thought I was talking to some random person after I was so upset (the first person after the first time WAS random and said everyone knows he is insane) but the second who was dressed as a witch (how apropos) posed as an impartial observer to the conversation after he told me and my Latino husband that we had HIM to thank for CHARTER SCHOOLS (this was apropos of the Bowser sign on his lawn - we almost, but resisted, putting Catania signs all over HIS lawn in the middle of the night as a good natured prank.) He finally said something condescending and outright racist and my husband had the good grace and the proper perspective to walk away. Money did not talk, matter or pressure at the old GDS. But apparently he is on his 3rd or so marriage and everyone in the neighborhood knows it (at least the woman whose kids I used to babysit for who sent two kids to Princeton who opened the door when I rang her bell, shell shocked). So I hope he does not have the influence he claims.

Oh and one other thing. Almost everyone there in the late 80's thought Oberlin was the bomb, and even if they had to go to more prestigious colleges, many, like me, wished in our heart of hearts we could have gone to Oberlin. Except it was too cold for me, just like Harvard. And for me for many reasons going to Princeton made me a rebel and an outcast just like GDS. Except it was Princeton. The witch on the lawn (who turned out to be his SIL and said (after she had revealed her true identity and I blew up, saying you have just made me doubt myself do you see how my hands are shaking?) and I had already told her I was going to talk to Kevin Barr about this, she said "good luck with that - if you don't donate every year" (which I still do but I wonder why) "he won't listen to you." Well I haven't bothered to talk to him yet, but this thread (which I looked at to figure out which schools are the "Big 3" because I cared about a post where someone was talking about it and thought I would find an easy answer here) and the upcoming of Halloween (which made me remember all of this) have reminded me to contact Kevin. Who was my 9th grade English teacher and our college guidance counselor and really just a great person all around. I was amazed when he recognized me after 30 years when we went to the lower school thing they always do around Halloween when we first moved back with our two year old, but I think he will probably listen to me - because he cared about the old GDS and I'm sure he cares about the new GDS and the idea that anyone is giving an impromptu lecture to other GDS parents who really seemed to be in his thrall about how he has got the head of the lower school wrapped around his little finger because "money talks" would deeply offend the Kevin Barr that I know, as I hope it offends all GDS alums.

But aside from the social climbers, who are ascending ladders that I did not even know existed, or am ineligible for (and apparently I can be found in the Green Book as if I give a flying you know what about that), who went to no name colleges and now are on the Alumni Committee or whatever (somehow involved in the moving and shaking to a degree for GDS now, no doubt for the sake of getting their kids into better colleges than they went to and because they can afford it), all the smart GDS alums I know in this area are sending their kids to public schools - either neighborhood or charters in DC, or bought houses strategically in Arlington or other parts of VA, or are in the great parts of Md, where we almost bought a perfect house until we realized that our children would not thank us for it because their dream charter was coming the following year to DC, and apparently we owe it all to this to this GDS Great White Hope blowhard, with whom I would never care to have another conversation, for what he views as singlehandedly bringing charter schools to DC. [b] But this started with his assumption that our kids went to private school and that I was a racist and a hypocrite... and then my very obviously non white husband got into the mix......... and he called me a racist again, and when we told him our kids went to a predominantly poor predominantly black at the time charter school he said we had him to thank and when we asked where his kids went to school with his Bowser sign on his front lawn he said it was irrelevant. But to me it is very relevant because his kids go to GDS and he is one of a whole crop of parents that have made alums like me decide not to send our kids to the school (my parents would pay full freight for the GDS of today).

To the few AA and AA looking folk in DC at GDS or in his clearly "political circle" (he said slanderous things about David Catania, and he has probably repeated them often enough so they have become gospel) to those who do not recognize this man's delusions of grandeur, from his pretty new young wife to his large house to his goals for GDS that connect with Beijjing and how he will pay for "this" but not for "that" because "money talks and these kids "are the future leaders of America" (he seems to think he is a partial leader of DC), and any minority parents with GDS kids who are insecure enough or dumb enough to listen to him, including the Asian father who was there who specifically sought him out for advice, beware and be wary. Every sensible person left in my neighborhood realizes he is bonkers, but you apparently do not. And this was a "private party" even though for years all neighbors have shown up and I and my children were neither invited nor welcome so I made sure that everyone who came down the sidewalk was aware of that before they even thought about stepping on his grass (undoubtedly cut by people from El Salvador) or jumping in his rented moonbounces (also set up and taken down by people from El Salvador. And we have been Bowsered.

And we have been Bowsered. GDS used to be full of intellectual snobs (they had that in common with my family) and many of the graduates of the classes (mine and those immediately before and after have become tenured professors at prominent universities (of creative writing after publishing obscure hard to parse books of poetry, or law after clerking for the Supreme Court) and are engaged in intellectual pursuits that our teachers would be proud of. My first boyfriend teaches high school English. But I am sure this man is oh so proud that we elected a woman as dumb as a rock and is still trying to strongarm (and pretending he does not even have to) various people in positions of influence and authority at GDS. I just ask you to examine his motives and his morals and think about what would be good for the school and all kids not just for his kids. Because he is obviously a narcissist who probably views the achievements of his children as an extension of his own, or has found a new little pond he can splash around in and wield power and cause chaos and controversy, and that also appears to be something he likes to do

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not see what is so funny about putting Potomac on the list. I do not have a child at this school but, I know it to be a great school and very competitive. Many of you are so close minded. If the school is not in DC you do not deem it worthy of a high ranking. Only DC parents obsess over this shit because your optons (DCPS) are the worst and many MD an VA parents are not betting the horses with their child's education and have decent options in the instance their DC does not get in,can not, or choose not to go private. These schools are most sought after because of location and demand. GDS used to be a not so fabulous school, in fact it was where students went who could not get into other schools! Now it is considered a TT school! Please! If Potomac was located in DC many of you would be running to this school. along with many other schools located outside of DC. Worry about your child. Help them to be succesful, you determine that, not a school!

Absolute bullshit about GDS historically - now many alums consider it has sold out. GDS was the first integrated private school and was only founded in 1953 which is why it does not have the cachet or the name recognition of St Alban's, which in my father's day was not even considered good enough to stay for high school so all 3 boys went to Groton. The population of GDS was originally, and still when I went there, composed of children of the intelligentsia, whom because they were either minorities or Jewish, or just wanted to keep their children away from all the snobby children in DC (where merit is based on who your Daddy or Mommy is or who they work for (whereas in NYC it is based on how much money mommy or daddy or grandaddy made (not sure which is worse)). All had no interest in social climbing for themselves or through their children but rather education, sent their kids to a high school still in a converted office building in the late 80s up the road from the lower school (where the River School is now, but without the conversions the money the River school could put into it.) For most students and their parents, it was their top choice. And they had come from the lower school. For some refugees like me from NCS, it was our top choice but not our parents. I flat out begged the head of Sidwell at the time, Earl Harrison, not to accept me because I wanted to go to GDS. He honored my request. Madeira didn't, but I won anyway because at that time GDS college acceptances were better than Sidwell's, and on par with STA. NCS was not on par with either, but there was still this insane idea that it did not matter for the girls of the social elite.

Our teachers were mostly from the 60s, talked a lot about respecting personal space (because we had none), we had an open campus by default because we had no cafeteria, and our kids did not shoplift from the drugstore or the safeway like the kids from Alban Towers. We bought lunch or brown bagged it, and ate anywhere we wanted to. We did not have a regulation size gym, we did have a smoking lounge (but only for cigarettes), and as for playing fields, our Grasshoppers used the Palisades tennis courts (which at the time were dumpy) and our cross country team used Battery Kemble. And no one ever talked about how we did.

As usual, my grandparents didn't give a shit about the girl, who was supposed to get a MRS degree. So she stayed at NCS while the boys went to Groton and went to Radcliffe anyway - at a time when "Radcliffe girls" were still only allowed in the main library for certain limited hours. As my mother says now "I don't know why we didn't throw rocks through the windows." She got the best scholarship to Radcliffe but did not want to go because Harvard boys did not want to date Radcliffe girls and she thought at 17 it meant she would never get married!!!!!!! What she did not realize was that the Harvard men who were there on their own merit (at a time when there was still a quota for Jews) did actually come to their senses at some point and marry Radcliffe women because they wanted to produce babies with brains. At least that was true of some Harvard men like my father. They did not overlap - missed each other by one year - and now go to reunions together, it is kind of cute.

My husband and I met at Princeton (we sent 5 kids that year but it was NOT a popular choice for GDSers), sent a load to Harvard, and oddly enough, the most to Yale. But I guess it varies from class to class (this year Sidwell had the most NMSF and GDS blew it.) Doesn't matter to most of us, who think GDS changed with the move and would never send our kids there. I met the most arrogant man who is a GDS parent who was intoxicated and hosting a party at his house in Kent on Halloween, which I have attended since I was a young child (when it was under different ownership). But he kept talking about how GDS kids were the future leaders of America and he had other (mostly minority parents from GDS which REALLY pissed me off in his thrall) talking about how he was on good terms with the principal and how "money talks" and how he could manipulate the poor SOB if everyone just agreed they would only donate for one thing. He wanted some exchange program in Beijjing - great, go send your young kids into danger, and many other things. But there was at least one thing he did NOT want, and I wish I could remember what it was. I thought I was talking to some random person after I was so upset (the first person after the first time WAS random and said everyone knows he is insane) but the second who was dressed as a witch (how apropos) posed as an impartial observer to the conversation after he told me and my Latino husband that we had HIM to thank for CHARTER SCHOOLS (this was apropos of the Bowser sign on his lawn - we almost, but resisted, putting Catania signs all over HIS lawn in the middle of the night as a good natured prank.) He finally said something condescending and outright racist and my husband had the good grace and the proper perspective to walk away. Money did not talk, matter or pressure at the old GDS. But apparently he is on his 3rd or so marriage and everyone in the neighborhood knows it (at least the woman whose kids I used to babysit for who sent two kids to Princeton who opened the door when I rang her bell, shell shocked). So I hope he does not have the influence he claims.

Oh and one other thing. Almost everyone there in the late 80's thought Oberlin was the bomb, and even if they had to go to more prestigious colleges, many, like me, wished in our heart of hearts we could have gone to Oberlin. Except it was too cold for me, just like Harvard. And for me for many reasons going to Princeton made me a rebel and an outcast just like GDS. Except it was Princeton. The witch on the lawn (who turned out to be his SIL and said (after she had revealed her true identity and I blew up, saying you have just made me doubt myself do you see how my hands are shaking?) and I had already told her I was going to talk to Kevin Barr about this, she said "good luck with that - if you don't donate every year" (which I still do but I wonder why) "he won't listen to you." Well I haven't bothered to talk to him yet, but this thread (which I looked at to figure out which schools are the "Big 3" because I cared about a post where someone was talking about it and thought I would find an easy answer here) and the upcoming of Halloween (which made me remember all of this) have reminded me to contact Kevin. Who was my 9th grade English teacher and our college guidance counselor and really just a great person all around. I was amazed when he recognized me after 30 years when we went to the lower school thing they always do around Halloween when we first moved back with our two year old, but I think he will probably listen to me - because he cared about the old GDS and I'm sure he cares about the new GDS and the idea that anyone is giving an impromptu lecture to other GDS parents who really seemed to be in his thrall about how he has got the head of the lower school wrapped around his little finger because "money talks" would deeply offend the Kevin Barr that I know, as I hope it offends all GDS alums.

But aside from the social climbers, who are ascending ladders that I did not even know existed, or am ineligible for (and apparently I can be found in the Green Book as if I give a flying you know what about that), who went to no name colleges and now are on the Alumni Committee or whatever (somehow involved in the moving and shaking to a degree for GDS now, no doubt for the sake of getting their kids into better colleges than they went to and because they can afford it), all the smart GDS alums I know in this area are sending their kids to public schools - either neighborhood or charters in DC, or bought houses strategically in Arlington or other parts of VA, or are in the great parts of Md, where we almost bought a perfect house until we realized that our children would not thank us for it because their dream charter was coming the following year to DC, and apparently we owe it all to this to this GDS Great White Hope blowhard, with whom I would never care to have another conversation, for what he views as singlehandedly bringing charter schools to DC. [b] But this started with his assumption that our kids went to private school and that I was a racist and a hypocrite... and then my very obviously non white husband got into the mix......... and he called me a racist again, and when we told him our kids went to a predominantly poor predominantly black at the time charter school he said we had him to thank and when we asked where his kids went to school with his Bowser sign on his front lawn he said it was irrelevant. But to me it is very relevant because his kids go to GDS and he is one of a whole crop of parents that have made alums like me decide not to send our kids to the school (my parents would pay full freight for the GDS of today).

To the few AA and AA looking folk in DC at GDS or in his clearly "political circle" (he said slanderous things about David Catania, and he has probably repeated them often enough so they have become gospel) to those who do not recognize this man's delusions of grandeur, from his pretty new young wife to his large house to his goals for GDS that connect with Beijjing and how he will pay for "this" but not for "that" because "money talks and these kids "are the future leaders of America" (he seems to think he is a partial leader of DC), and any minority parents with GDS kids who are insecure enough or dumb enough to listen to him, including the Asian father who was there who specifically sought him out for advice, beware and be wary. Every sensible person left in my neighborhood realizes he is bonkers, but you apparently do not. And this was a "private party" even though for years all neighbors have shown up and I and my children were neither invited nor welcome so I made sure that everyone who came down the sidewalk was aware of that before they even thought about stepping on his grass (undoubtedly cut by people from El Salvador) or jumping in his rented moonbounces (also set up and taken down by people from El Salvador. And we have been Bowsered.

And we have been Bowsered. GDS used to be full of intellectual snobs (they had that in common with my family) and many of the graduates of the classes (mine and those immediately before and after have become tenured professors at prominent universities (of creative writing after publishing obscure hard to parse books of poetry, or law after clerking for the Supreme Court) and are engaged in intellectual pursuits that our teachers would be proud of. My first boyfriend teaches high school English. But I am sure this man is oh so proud that we elected a woman as dumb as a rock and is still trying to strongarm (and pretending he does not even have to) various people in positions of influence and authority at GDS. I just ask you to examine his motives and his morals and think about what would be good for the school and all kids not just for his kids. Because he is obviously a narcissist who probably views the achievements of his children as an extension of his own, or has found a new little pond he can splash around in and wield power and cause chaos and controversy, and that also appears to be something he likes to do

News at 11: Downwardly-mobile intellectual leftist who came from privilege but is not providing her children with the same opportunity, mad at upwardly mobile immigrant strivers.

[Anonymous]

GDS rocks now more than ever, IMHO. GDS was compelling enough for it to be the Obamas' first choice for their daughters. Too bad the Secret Service veteoed it because they had concerns about the flow of the Palisades campus driveway. That's why the Obamas finally wound up at Sidwell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WHO CARES!!!!!!!!

No doubt a rhetorical question, but . . . All the people who hijacked the FAQ sticky and demanded their own "Big Blah Blah Blah" sticky.

A poem:

I was happy, oh yes, carefree,
When I first moved to DC,
Until I found out
And was crippled with doubt,
About something called "the Big Three"!

These schools of wonder and grace,
Each one a magnificent place,
My child would adore
To go through the door,
And emerge an Ivy League Ace.

But, alas! I learned of the debate
Which tangles DCUM forums with hate
Which ARE the big three?
Are they only in DC?
Or in a neighboring state?

Sidwell, Cathedral and St. Albans too
Will argue their "Big Three" status to you
Potomac, Maret, Georgetown Day
And the girls of Holton should have their say,
The laxers of Landon, the Georgetown Prep boys,
St. Stephens St. Agnes is making some noise . . .

Every child shouts: "My school is Big Three!"
. . . OH wait, that's their PARENTS . . .do pardon me!

Always thought until I moved here that the big 3 were Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Love your poem

While funny, there is a lot of truth here. The students who actually attend these schools (as opposed to the DCUM moms) have a VERY different view. STA boys don't consider GDS boys their peers - they are in a different orbit (not saying better or worse, just different). Coed schools are very different from single gender schools. Students in coed schools rarely interact with kids from other schools. The socially adept students at single gender schools interact with students from all the other single gender schools. The net net is that if your DC is socially adept ("cool") they'll thrive in the single gender schools. If not, the coed private schools are a better choice.

I would observe the opposite. GDS boys (and girls) are simply amazing and accomplished -- and among DC private students they are seemingly without peer.

It's been my experience with students from this school that they are woefully ignorant of the world around them and have zero street smarts.

Nothing could be further from the truth. GDS was founded as an urban school for social justice, and the students totally reflect the vibe and diversity of DC.

[Anonymous]

GDS' plan for its new campus and its ambitious neighborhood renewal program to re-energize Tenleytown will enhance the vibe and diversity of DC.

[Anonymous]

The big three are traditionally STA, NCS, Sidwell and GDS. Other top schools are Maret and Potomac, Landon and Holton.

Other great schools that have terrific offerings: Bullis, Georgetown Prep, St Andrews, WIS, Norwood, Field, St Anselms, Visitation, St Johns

Lots to choose from!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The big three are traditionally STA, NCS, Sidwell and GDS. Other top schools are Maret and Potomac, Landon and Holton.

Other great schools that have terrific offerings: Bullis, Georgetown Prep, St Andrews, WIS, Norwood, Field, St Anselms, Visitation, St Johns

Lots to choose from!

Which is the rapey school again?