Sorry, but this bad behavior is not a High Crime

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slander
Libel
Witness tampering
Bribery
Election tampering
Tax fraud
Racketeering


Shall I go on?

First two are unlikely, but they can sue him. Unpresidential but not a high crime.

Third, unmm no. That's not how that works. Again obviously unpresidential.

Fourth is a real stretch, but it's an interesting case. If not bribery, certainly is some version of abuse of power. Personally I don't find it enough to be impeached over.

Fifth is just dumb.

Sixth is likely given his business history. I'd think THAT is impeachable if recent and bad enough.

Seventh also dumb.

My four year old at bath time: "No, that's dumb."
You at impeachment time: "No, that's dumb."

Racketeering is dumb, come on. "Bribery", in this context, is not dumb but not impeachable on these facts.

To the contrary, the thing Trump has been doing is EXACTLY what the framers had in mind when they added the impeachment process and bribery specifically to the impeachment process.

“So they agreed that Congress should have the power to impeach a president—but on what grounds? The initial impeachment clause borrowed from established concepts in English law and state constitutions, allowing impeachment for “maladministration”—basically incompetence, akin to a vote of no confidence.

James Madison and others argued this was too vague a standard. They changed it to “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.”

But what did this mean?

One of the biggest fears of the founding fathers was that the new nation might fall under the sway of foreign powers. That’s what had happened in Europe over the years, where one nation or another had fallen prey to bribes, treaties and ill-advised royal marriages from other nations.

So those who gathered in Philadelphia to write the Constitution included a number of provisions to guard against foreign intrusion in American democracy. One was the emoluments clause, barring international payments or gifts to a president or other federal elected official. The framers of the Constitution worried that without this provision, a president might be bribed by a foreign power to betray America.

The delegates to the Convention were also concerned that a foreign power might influence the outcome of an election.

They wanted to protect the new United States from what Alexander Hamilton called the “desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.“ Or as James Madison put it, protect the new country from a president who’d "betray his trust to foreign powers.” Gouverneur Morris of Pennsylvania, who initially had opposed including an impeachment clause, agreed to include it in order to avoid “the danger of seeing the first Magistrate in foreign pay.”
https://prospect.org/impeachment/would-the-founding-fathers-impeach-trump/

Original PP. ^^ +1

I'd agree that a president getting paid by a foreign government would be bad.

Hmmmm.

“Bolton told the gathering of Morgan Stanley’s largest hedge fund clients that he was most frustrated with Trump over his handling of Turkey, people who were present said. Noting the broad bipartisan support in Congress to sanction Turkey after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan purchased a Russian missile defense system, Bolton said Trump’s resistance to the move was unreasonable, four people present for his speech said. Bolton said he believes there is a personal or business relationship dictating Trump’s position on Turkey because none of his advisers are aligned with him on the issue, the people present said.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/private-speech-bolton-suggests-some-trump-s-foreign-policy-decisions-n1080651

No doubt Trump is an idiot who disagrees with his key advisers. But he is the President, thus his views are US foreign policy and not theirs. Obviously this is dysfunctional and crazy to keep recycling through key staff, but it is where we are unless he quits/dies or someone else beats him in 2020.

Nope

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No doubt Trump is an idiot who disagrees with his key advisers. But he is the President, thus his views are US foreign policy and not theirs. Obviously this is dysfunctional and crazy to keep recycling through key staff, but it is where we are unless he quits/dies or someone else beats him in 2020.

The US Congress, in accordance with years of precedent, supported Ukraine and authorized funds to that end. That was the policy being carried out by the people who swore an oath to the rule of law and the Constitution. Donald Trump and Rudy Guiliani were executing a rogue foreign policy that was counter to the US foreign policy in an attempt to shakedown a vulnerable foreign country for personal gain.

the President CANNOT pursue a "rouge foreign policy that was counter to the US foreign policy"! Jesus, this is not hard. "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."

[Anonymous]

Executive power does not mean or imply sole authority to decide and conduct U.S. foreign policy. Where in the constitution do you get that idea? The constitution assigns roles to both the executive and the legislative branch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Executive power does not mean or imply sole authority to decide and conduct U.S. foreign policy. Where in the constitution do you get that idea? The constitution assigns roles to both the executive and the legislative branch.

Correct. In this case Trump’s assigned role was to execute the appropriation by Congress. If he wanted a totally different foreign policy vis a vis Ukraine, the time to discuss that was before he signed the bill appropriating its aid money.

[Anonymous]

NP here.

I agree with the OP on one point: there aren’t enough votes in the senate to remove him from office.

What is the end game in the impeachment process? Exposing the information and doing their jobs are both important, but I worry it’s going to backfire next November.

[Anonymous]

He is acting exactly the way the voters knew he was going to act. Are you telling me that calling the president of Ukraine and bringing up dumb stuff and then withholding aid for a few weeks is the WORST action by an American president ever? Or tied with Nixon? Again, its horrible behavior but not worth the death penalty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He is acting exactly the way the voters knew he was going to act. Are you telling me that calling the president of Ukraine and bringing up dumb stuff and then withholding aid for a few weeks is the WORST action by an American president ever? Or tied with Nixon? Again, its horrible behavior but not worth the death penalty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He is acting exactly the way the voters knew he was going to act. Are you telling me that calling the president of Ukraine and bringing up dumb stuff and then withholding aid for a few weeks is the WORST action by an American president ever? Or tied with Nixon? Again, its horrible behavior but not worth the death penalty.

No one is suggesting the death penalty. We are suggesting his immediate removal from office. He is unfortunately unfit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He is acting exactly the way the voters knew he was going to act. Are you telling me that calling the president of Ukraine and bringing up dumb stuff and then withholding aid for a few weeks is the WORST action by an American president ever? Or tied with Nixon? Again, its horrible behavior but not worth the death penalty.

Are you posting from a country where there are a lot of assassinations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

I agree with the OP on one point: there aren’t enough votes in the senate to remove him from office.

What is the end game in the impeachment process? Exposing the information and doing their jobs are both important, but I worry it’s going to backfire next November.

The purpose of the impeachment hearings is to establish the proper rules and articles for impeachment, should it occur.
This is more about the constitution than it is about Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He is acting exactly the way the voters knew he was going to act. Are you telling me that calling the president of Ukraine and bringing up dumb stuff and then withholding aid for a few weeks is the WORST action by an American president ever? Or tied with Nixon? Again, its horrible behavior but not worth the death penalty.

Stop being hyperbolic if you want to be taken seriously. Bill Clinton was impeached over a blow job. Is this worse than that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

I agree with the OP on one point: there aren’t enough votes in the senate to remove him from office.

What is the end game in the impeachment process? Exposing the information and doing their jobs are both important, but I worry it’s going to backfire next November.

It's not going to backfire in November.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. Clinton was impeached for far less.

And how did that end??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

I agree with the OP on one point: there aren’t enough votes in the senate to remove him from office.

What is the end game in the impeachment process? Exposing the information and doing their jobs are both important, but I worry it’s going to backfire next November.

It's not going to backfire in November.

They are now investigating if he lied to Mueller and trying to go back 8 years on tax records=the Ukraine thing is over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

I agree with the OP on one point: there aren’t enough votes in the senate to remove him from office.

What is the end game in the impeachment process? Exposing the information and doing their jobs are both important, but I worry it’s going to backfire next November.

It's not going to backfire in November.

They are now investigating if he lied to Mueller and trying to go back 8 years on tax records=the Ukraine thing is over

Uh, no, sorry. Stop lying. It equals multiple "high crimes". Not surprising.