mcps. sounds about right. (GT admissions changes)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such sour grapes!

lol I don't even have kids. Overall quality and rigor has gone down

I teach in a MCPS MS Magnet and disagree. Give me specific examples from the Magnet classes you are teaching this year to support your argument.

It's great to hear from a magnet teacher. I suspect that there aren't enough magnet seats in MCPS and there are probably many students who could be magnet students without lowering the overall quality and rigor? What do you think?

Also, do you have any opinion on the programs being installed in local middle schools so that those with a gifted local peer group don't need the magnet?

Thanks for the great work you do. Both my kids went through a magnet middle school (don't know if it's yours) and had a fantastic experience. It challenged them and gave them an excellent foundation. I'm often a critic of MCPS, but the magnet program was great.

I’m uncertain about adding another 20-25 students to my current load. Whether that would be a fifth class or simply four larger classes, I’m sure it would change some instruction and assessment options currently very doable. I would be happy to see at least two more Magnet programs open. This would allow many more seats (200) and ease the burden of the long bus ride for some families. However, to recruit the Magnet teachers needed, MCPS needs to do a better job in how it treats its professional staff, especially new hires.

I attended the summer training for the enriched course in my subject area and continue to follow developing lessons. I think that if executed faithfully by the selected teachers, it will be both fun and rigorous for students in schools with a large gifted cohort. I question a school deciding to offer it to the entire sixth grade. That seems a parent-pleasing move rather than having carefully assessed student needs. I will definitely touch base with relevant people next week to see if this is truly what is happening. I suspect the poster may have confused the Advanced course with the enriched one.

Thank you. I’m glad it was a worthwhile experience for your children. The past two weeks, I’ve carefully watched the students that some posters here don’t think deserve to be in my classroom. These kids are not just holding their own, they are excited and already greatly contributing to our learning community. They are as curious, hard-working, delightfully smart, and quirky as the present-seventh graders who were admitted under the old system. The only sixth grade student I have concerns about handling the rigor is one who would have come from the traditional pool.

wow, after such extensive and intensive search, MCPS still placed kid who aroused teacher’s concern. How good is that selection?

Obviously, I can’t comment in detail on this child, but the concern is not based on intellectual talent, but emotional temperament under increased academic pressure. I’m still holding out hope for this particular student. Middle school environments require adjustment for all sixth graders. Some have a rockier transition than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have it on good authority that the peer groups in the magnets this year are the strongest ever largely because of universal screening. In the past the only kids in the program were the ones whose parents recommended them and that bar was much lower.

This is baseless with the exception of the universal screening info. Yes, the universal screening may identify more highly qualified students, but the regional requirements (peer group etc) may eliminate more highly qualified students. I know one MS magnet seemed frustrated & concerned w/ the new admissions process. We'll see how it goes this year and how the students get on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have it on good authority that the peer groups in the magnets this year are the strongest ever largely because of universal screening. In the past the only kids in the program were the ones whose parents recommended them and that bar was much lower.

+1

[Anonymous]

? I'm talking about how the change in selection (using peer cohort, which is also used in ES selection) has changed the caliber of students in the magnet programs.

Again, the changes didn't just affect MS. The article referenced a teacher in an ES, not MS.

The article didn't do anyone any favors by confusing these two issues, and by conflating the reaction from a teacher at a newly formed LOCAL CES with changes to admissions at the middle school.

Of course the standards are going to be lower at a local CES than a regional one. Of course they are. But is that a bad thing? People keep saying there aren't enough spots for all the gifted kids in MCPS, and moving from the "top" 3 percent to the "top" 20 percent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have it on good authority that the peer groups in the magnets this year are the strongest ever largely because of universal screening. In the past the only kids in the program were the ones whose parents recommended them and that bar was much lower.

This is baseless with the exception of the universal screening info. Yes, the universal screening may identify more highly qualified students, but the regional requirements (peer group etc) may eliminate more highly qualified students. I know one MS magnet seemed frustrated & concerned w/ the new admissions process. We'll see how it goes this year and how the students get on.

Speaking for my Magnet, there was concern last spring and over the summer. Then the students showed up two weeks ago and, in getting to know them a bit, we all relaxed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you need the assigned middle school? It's really spread out this year and releasing that information would be a violation of privacy for much of the student population since it could easily lead to student/score discovery.
Then again, this is about you and your "sour grapes"--not the process.

DP.. don't need the assigned MS information. All they have to do is release the median scores of accepted students, like they used to do. Why did they stop releasing these test scores?

More than likely, it was because it become obvious that some students who were not admitted because of "peer cohort" scored much higher than the admitted students without peer cohort.

Using peer cohort was the only way to increase other groups. No one is against universal screening. It's the peer cohort nonsense that some people are upset about.

No dog in this fight. My DC#1 already went through HGC and opted out of MS magnet due to the long commute. I knew DC#2 was not qualified for magnet.

As the teacher in the article stated, the peer group now in those magnets are not as high achieving so they are going to have to lower the expectations now. Shame.

I like how MCPS is reducing the need to buy in to a cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

? I'm talking about how the change in selection (using peer cohort, which is also used in ES selection) has changed the caliber of students in the magnet programs.

Again, the changes didn't just affect MS. The article referenced a teacher in an ES, not MS.

The article didn't do anyone any favors by confusing these two issues, and by conflating the reaction from a teacher at a newly formed LOCAL CES with changes to admissions at the middle school.

Of course the standards are going to be lower at a local CES than a regional one. Of course they are. But is that a bad thing? People keep saying there aren't enough spots for all the gifted kids in MCPS, and moving from the "top" 3 percent to the "top" 20 percent.

No, it is not a bad thing! If MCPS moved from 'top' 3 to 'top' 10 even, it would have given so many more kids much needed enrichment.
I'd rather my 'top 5' percent child was getting lower grades in a more challenging program a CES than sitting in a regular classroom with all As bored to death that is the case at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Look at the twins who were profiled in the article, their father is an engineer. Just like the father who is angry that his daughter was "de-selected". One difference is the twins' family suggests they would not have sent their girls if the girls were going to be racially isolated. So these are examples of students who would not have applied without universal screening. They self-selected out of the application process, the other family self-selected in. We have no reason to believe there's anything else that separates these two families. There was definitely new competition this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

? I'm talking about how the change in selection (using peer cohort, which is also used in ES selection) has changed the caliber of students in the magnet programs.

Again, the changes didn't just affect MS. The article referenced a teacher in an ES, not MS.

The article didn't do anyone any favors by confusing these two issues, and by conflating the reaction from a teacher at a newly formed LOCAL CES with changes to admissions at the middle school.

Of course the standards are going to be lower at a local CES than a regional one. Of course they are. But is that a bad thing? People keep saying there aren't enough spots for all the gifted kids in MCPS, and moving from the "top" 3 percent to the "top" 20 percent.

No, Fox Chapel is not a new local center. It's been a regional center for years. It (along with Drew) was one of the centers to do a field-test of the universal screening process in 2016 (for this year's fifth graders when they were in third grade).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

? I'm talking about how the change in selection (using peer cohort, which is also used in ES selection) has changed the caliber of students in the magnet programs.

Again, the changes didn't just affect MS. The article referenced a teacher in an ES, not MS.

The article didn't do anyone any favors by confusing these two issues, and by conflating the reaction from a teacher at a newly formed LOCAL CES with changes to admissions at the middle school.

Of course the standards are going to be lower at a local CES than a regional one. Of course they are. But is that a bad thing? People keep saying there aren't enough spots for all the gifted kids in MCPS, and moving from the "top" 3 percent to the "top" 20 percent.

No, it is not a bad thing! If MCPS moved from 'top' 3 to 'top' 10 even, it would have given so many more kids much needed enrichment.
I'd rather my 'top 5' percent child was getting lower grades in a more challenging program a CES than sitting in a regular classroom with all As bored to death that is the case at the moment.

in the past they took the top 3% of the kids whose parents nominated them to the program. That l’ like the top 3% of the 10% sample that applied or a random 10% sample of the top 30%. With Universal screening the program identifies the most qualified students. This was never done before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

? I'm talking about how the change in selection (using peer cohort, which is also used in ES selection) has changed the caliber of students in the magnet programs.

Again, the changes didn't just affect MS. The article referenced a teacher in an ES, not MS.

The article didn't do anyone any favors by confusing these two issues, and by conflating the reaction from a teacher at a newly formed LOCAL CES with changes to admissions at the middle school.

Of course the standards are going to be lower at a local CES than a regional one. Of course they are. But is that a bad thing? People keep saying there aren't enough spots for all the gifted kids in MCPS, and moving from the "top" 3 percent to the "top" 20 percent.

No, it is not a bad thing! If MCPS moved from 'top' 3 to 'top' 10 even, it would have given so many more kids much needed enrichment.
I'd rather my 'top 5' percent child was getting lower grades in a more challenging program a CES than sitting in a regular classroom with all As bored to death that is the case at the moment.

in the past they took the top 3% of the kids whose parents nominated them to the program. That l’ like the top 3% of the 10% sample that applied or a random 10% sample of the top 30%. With Universal screening the program identifies the most qualified students. This was never done before. [/quot

Wwithout any screen, you can easiler find the top 3% students in MCPS. There are data from MAP test, PARCC test as well as PSAT and SaT results.
MCPS would never disclise the magnet test results from last year because they unfairly targetted Asian students because where they live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with universal screening, but using the cohort criteria really does exclude the brighter kids.

But don’t they get the advanced classes at their home school? I thought they send the kids who are advanced but there’s not enough (20?) other advanced kids at their school, and where there are enough kids to form a class they keep them at their home school? I’d prefer my kid be at the home school, unless the magnet is close.

No. If it was the exact same curriculum, then yes, but it's not the same curriculum, so no.. those one or two classes does not make a magnet program.

Oh, but three classes does?!?! The magnets only have three magnet classes, others magnet students take with "regular" students from that school. So, if they have two magnet classes at their home school and now have the time they would have had to spend on the bus to participate in an extra curricular activity or club, win/win for everyone... seems like a move in the right direction.

i

You don’t understand the middle school magnet program. Not only is the curriculum for each class more advanced, but the curriculum for the magnet classes is coordinated across magnet subjects and between magnet teachers. So for example an “enriched” 6th grade social studies class at a home school will not come close to replicating the 6th grade magnet social studies class at a humanities magnet MS, which will be informed by and complement the work the students are doing in their magnet English, reading, and media classes (4 magnet classes in 6th grade). Those four advanced classes do not I include the math class, which is taken with home school students but for most magnet kids is IM, because they did compacted math in 4th and 5th.

I’ve had kids Inc both the magnet and home middle school programs. The difference is night and day. The home middle school was a snooze fest and the “honors” classes were a joke. I have no objections to universal screening, but I strongly object to the “peer cohort”rationale. Instructional need is a question of individual students’ capability and not whether there are other capable students in the same home school,when they are already being held back by an inadequate curriculum. The presence of other smart students does nothing to solve the fundamental inadequacies of the curriculum. The only solution is for MCPS to expand the magnet programs to home schools to meet the needs of all qualified students, not just rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic to reach a different set of qualified students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with universal screening, but using the cohort criteria really does exclude the brighter kids.

But don’t they get the advanced classes at their home school? I thought they send the kids who are advanced but there’s not enough (20?) other advanced kids at their school, and where there are enough kids to form a class they keep them at their home school? I’d prefer my kid be at the home school, unless the magnet is close.

No. If it was the exact same curriculum, then yes, but it's not the same curriculum, so no.. those one or two classes does not make a magnet program.

Oh, but three classes does?!?! The magnets only have three magnet classes, others magnet students take with "regular" students from that school. So, if they have two magnet classes at their home school and now have the time they would have had to spend on the bus to participate in an extra curricular activity or club, win/win for everyone... seems like a move in the right direction.

i

You don’t understand the middle school magnet program. Not only is the curriculum for each class more advanced, but the curriculum for the magnet classes is coordinated across magnet subjects and between magnet teachers. So for example an “enriched” 6th grade social studies class at a home school will not come close to replicating the 6th grade magnet social studies class at a humanities magnet MS, which will be informed by and complement the work the students are doing in their magnet English, reading, and media classes (4 magnet classes in 6th grade). Those four advanced classes do not I include the math class, which is taken with home school students but for most magnet kids is IM, because they did compacted math in 4th and 5th.

I’ve had kids Inc both the magnet and home middle school programs. The difference is night and day. The home middle school was a snooze fest and the “honors” classes were a joke. I have no objections to universal screening, but I strongly object to the “peer cohort”rationale. Instructional need is a question of individual students’ capability and not whether there are other capable students in the same home school,when they are already being held back by an inadequate curriculum. The presence of other smart students does nothing to solve the fundamental inadequacies of the curriculum. The only solution is for MCPS to expand the magnet programs to home schools to meet the needs of all qualified students, not just rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic to reach a different set of qualified students.

Yes, this does seem like the best solution. Hopefully, MCPS will expand the classes in the pilot MS schools.

[Anonymous]

I'm so thankful for the peer cohort changes. My DD is spared a long bus ride across the county and gets enriched studies. It's a win win!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have it on good authority that the peer groups in the magnets this year are the strongest ever largely because of universal screening. In the past the only kids in the program were the ones whose parents recommended them and that bar was much lower.

+1

MCPS could easily confirm this by releasing admitted students' stats, no? Yet they won't. Why do you think that is?

Since the vast majority of the most competitive CES students were declined admission to the MS magnets, how could the new cohorts be as strong? They didn't have the advantage of the very advanced CES curriculum, so of course are well behind the students who did. MS magnet teachers will have to adjust accordingly.