Yoga is Hindu. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tried yoga years ago because my physio therapist said it was an excellent way to stretch. For me, personally there was nothing more to it.

There was no intent to insult anyone's religion, I just needed to stretch some damn tight muscles.

Fair enough, I have no problem with you tending to your health concerns. It's not about "You have to be Hindu to do yoga" or "Only Hindus can do yoga", it's about, "I'm a non-Hindu benefiting from a Hindu practice" and being mindful of that. Most people say, "Yoga isn't Hindu, so I can practice it without being Hindu." We're saying the attitude should be, "Yoga is Hindu, but I can practice it without being Hindu as long as I'm mindful of what it is I'm doing."

Tight muscles do need to be stretched; nothing wrong with that!

Yoga classes in the US are about as Hindu as the average Chinese restaurant is authentically Chinese or the average Mexican restaurant is authentically Mexican.

Which is the entire point of this thread.

By the way, American Chinese restaurants are still called Chinese restaurants. Same goes for Mexican restaurants. The food is still acknowledged as Chinese or Mexican.

Yoga is Hindu and should be acknowledged as such.

So thats all you want? An acknowledgement that its Hindu? Okay its Hindu. I'm still going to do it though.

Yes. That's the point of this entire thread. People think that in order to do yoga without being Hindu, they have to consciously strip yoga away from Hinduism, which is what has been going on. Hindus don't give a shit if non-Hindus do yoga; we are not an evangelical religion. We do give a shit if you do yoga and then tell us that it's not a part of our religion.

Feel free to do yoga and be a non-Hindu. Just don't tell us that yoga itself isn't Hinduism. It seems simple, but you'd be surprised how much deep resistance there is to even granting that acknowledgement - it's evident in your post about Chinese restaurants and in all the stubborn denial and misplaced, terrible analogies in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You also need to refresh on the outdated and no longer supported theory of the Aryans being some sort of invading group. That has long been debunked.

Oh please, we aren't going to start on that. It has only been debunked by Hindu nationalists. The accepted position among scholars of linguistics, etc is that IE speakers came from outside India.

Here's a paper from the University of West Florida debunking the Aryan invasion theory: http://uwf.edu/lgoel/documents/amythofaryaninvasionsofindia.pdf

Stephen Knapp refuted the Aryan invasion theory in his book, "Advancements of Ancient India's Vedic Culture" (look at that, a non-Hindu nationalist debunking the Aryan theory!). Here's the relevant excerpt: http://www.stephen-knapp.com/aryan_invasion_theory_the_final_nail_in_its_coffin.htm

Here's the BBC admitting that the Aryan invasion theory was a myth: https://web.archive.org/web/20060705184146/http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/history/history5.shtml

Genetic testing on South Indians and North Indians denies a historical migrational split: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms

Here's a Harvard study debunking the Aryan invasion theory and concluding that it was a myth: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/drishtikone/2009/09/aryan-invasion-theory-myth-large-harvard-study/

Doesn't it just suck when you can't justify your appropriation with "science" and can't scapegoat all the Aryan invasion theory dissenters as "Hindu nationalists"?

This is a good one too: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misappropri_b_837376.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tried yoga years ago because my physio therapist said it was an excellent way to stretch. For me, personally there was nothing more to it.

There was no intent to insult anyone's religion, I just needed to stretch some damn tight muscles.

Fair enough, I have no problem with you tending to your health concerns. It's not about "You have to be Hindu to do yoga" or "Only Hindus can do yoga", it's about, "I'm a non-Hindu benefiting from a Hindu practice" and being mindful of that. Most people say, "Yoga isn't Hindu, so I can practice it without being Hindu." We're saying the attitude should be, "Yoga is Hindu, but I can practice it without being Hindu as long as I'm mindful of what it is I'm doing."

Tight muscles do need to be stretched; nothing wrong with that!

Yoga classes in the US are about as Hindu as the average Chinese restaurant is authentically Chinese or the average Mexican restaurant is authentically Mexican.

Which is the entire point of this thread.

By the way, American Chinese restaurants are still called Chinese restaurants. Same goes for Mexican restaurants. The food is still acknowledged as Chinese or Mexican.

Yoga is Hindu and should be acknowledged as such.

So thats all you want? An acknowledgement that its Hindu? Okay its Hindu. I'm still going to do it though.

Yes. That's the point of this entire thread. People think that in order to do yoga without being Hindu, they have to consciously strip yoga away from Hinduism, which is what has been going on. Hindus don't give a shit if non-Hindus do yoga; we are not an evangelical religion. We do give a shit if you do yoga and then tell us that it's not a part of our religion.

Feel free to do yoga and be a non-Hindu. Just don't tell us that yoga itself isn't Hinduism. It seems simple, but you'd be surprised how much deep resistance there is to even granting that acknowledgement - it's evident in your post about Chinese restaurants and in all the stubborn denial and misplaced, terrible analogies in this thread.

First I didn't make the post about Chinese restaurants. Second I have never walked up to a Hindu and told them that Yoga isn't Hindu.

Why would someone even deeply resist acknowledging it? Does this seriously come up a lot in your daily life? This seems like looking for a slight where there isn't one.

[Anonymous]

First I didn't make the post about Chinese restaurants. Second I have never walked up to a Hindu and told them that Yoga isn't Hindu.

Why would someone even deeply resist acknowledging it? Does this seriously come up a lot in your daily life? This seems like looking for a slight where there isn't one

NOBODY has ever walked up to a Hindu and said, "Yoga isn't Hindu." Are you actually in the habit of making cultural appropriation that simplistic and literal, or are you just grasping at straws? I've actually seen this explained in too much detail in this thread already - if you want to actually understand how subtly and consistently and deliberately yoga is appropriated out of Hinduism, I suggest you read the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to share some insights that I learned from my master.

Yoga was brought west slowly by various Hindu monks, in stages, as was meditation. The most famous of these Hindu monks was Paramahamsa Yogananda, the man who founded the Self-Realization Fellowship and wrote "Autobiography of a Yogi", Steve Jobs' favorite book.

Yogananda had a daunting task when he came to America in the early 20th century. He wanted to teach the techniques of self-realization and yoga, but whenever he tried to teach it the authentic way that he had been trained in by his guru Sri Yukteswar, he found he wasn't getting any enthusiasm.

Traditional kriya yoga invokes the Hindu gods, especially Shiva and Shakti. Yogananda's own preferred conception of God was as the Divine Mother Kali.

He found a lot of resistance to this when he tried to bring authentic kriya yoga teachings to the US in the 1920s. He also got physically attacked by hostile fundamentalist Christians.

Slowly, he stripped religion away from his teachings. He stopped wearing saffron robes and rudraksha malas, cut his long hair, and deliberately, consciously, made a calculated effort to change his theological language from Hinduism to Christianity, invoking Jesus Christ as a supreme guru and avatar of God.

In many ways, Yogananda's efforts to "dilute" Hinduism for the West is where modern New Age thinking comes from.

In order to teach yoga, Yogananda even changed the mantras. For kundalini pranayama meditation, for example, the mantra "va-shee" is used to denote Lord Shiva. This had to be changed to "Ah-eee" to avoid offending Christians who viewed Shiva as the devil or whatever. Ancient kriya techniques were boiled down to "self-energizing" exercises, which is a pretty big (and inaccurate) simplification of how prana (or chi, as the Chinese call it) works.

This is kind of how we ended up where we are today.

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had to do the same thing when he taught Transcendental Meditation in the 1960s and 1970s. His method is based on classic Hindu mantra meditation, which I was taught by my parents when I was seven years old. But Maharishi Mahesh Yogi couldn't teach Transcendental Meditation in the West without stripping Hinduism out of it. Even today, TM centers insist that the mantras are "meaningless words" just to be used for concentration. They're not meaningless words, they're tantric seed mantras that invoke the gods. I was taught those exact same mantras by my parents when I was elementary school, and I was taught to invoke the gods in my heart chakra when I mentally do japa (mantra repetition).

[Anonymous]

Op, I am 100% agreement with you. It annoys me to no end. The om wearing, the fake Indian names, the namaste. It makes me cringe. I'm a Hindu FWIW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I am 100% agreement with you. It annoys me to no end. The om wearing, the fake Indian names, the namaste. It makes me cringe. I'm a Hindu FWIW.

Why on earth would that annoy you? You get annoyed when someone honors the divinity in you? That's like a Christian being annoyed by someone wearing a cross or saying Jesus loves you.

It's all love. Can't imagine why you would feel annoyance.

[Anonymous]

Oh hell. It's like saying I can't think without praying. Yes, I can have an internal dialogue without communing with the divine. I *might* do that, some people *might* do that but it doesn't mean they are inextricably interwoven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You also need to refresh on the outdated and no longer supported theory of the Aryans being some sort of invading group. That has long been debunked.

Oh please, we aren't going to start on that. It has only been debunked by Hindu nationalists. The accepted position among scholars of linguistics, etc is that IE speakers came from outside India.

Here's a paper from the University of West Florida debunking the Aryan invasion theory: http://uwf.edu/lgoel/documents/amythofaryaninvasionsofindia.pdf

Stephen Knapp refuted the Aryan invasion theory in his book, "Advancements of Ancient India's Vedic Culture" (look at that, a non-Hindu nationalist debunking the Aryan theory!). Here's the relevant excerpt: http://www.stephen-knapp.com/aryan_invasion_theory_the_final_nail_in_its_coffin.htm

Here's the BBC admitting that the Aryan invasion theory was a myth: https://web.archive.org/web/20060705184146/http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/history/history5.shtml

Genetic testing on South Indians and North Indians denies a historical migrational split: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms

Here's a Harvard study debunking the Aryan invasion theory and concluding that it was a myth: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/drishtikone/2009/09/aryan-invasion-theory-myth-large-harvard-study/

Doesn't it just suck when you can't justify your appropriation with "science" and can't scapegoat all the Aryan invasion theory dissenters as "Hindu nationalists"?

There are way more papers supporting it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I am 100% agreement with you. It annoys me to no end. The om wearing, the fake Indian names, the namaste. It makes me cringe. I'm a Hindu FWIW.

I have bad news for you. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dogfish+head+namaste

[Anonymous]

Of course you are in good company

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sweet+baby+jesus+beer

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=hebrew+messiah+beer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You also need to refresh on the outdated and no longer supported theory of the Aryans being some sort of invading group. That has long been debunked.

Oh please, we aren't going to start on that. It has only been debunked by Hindu nationalists. The accepted position among scholars of linguistics, etc is that IE speakers came from outside India.

Here's a paper from the University of West Florida debunking the Aryan invasion theory: http://uwf.edu/lgoel/documents/amythofaryaninvasionsofindia.pdf

Stephen Knapp refuted the Aryan invasion theory in his book, "Advancements of Ancient India's Vedic Culture" (look at that, a non-Hindu nationalist debunking the Aryan theory!). Here's the relevant excerpt: http://www.stephen-knapp.com/aryan_invasion_theory_the_final_nail_in_its_coffin.htm

Here's the BBC admitting that the Aryan invasion theory was a myth: https://web.archive.org/web/20060705184146/http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/history/history5.shtml

Genetic testing on South Indians and North Indians denies a historical migrational split: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms

Here's a Harvard study debunking the Aryan invasion theory and concluding that it was a myth: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/drishtikone/2009/09/aryan-invasion-theory-myth-large-harvard-study/

Doesn't it just suck when you can't justify your appropriation with "science" and can't scapegoat all the Aryan invasion theory dissenters as "Hindu nationalists"?

There are way more papers supporting it.

Wow. I read all the academic citations that you quoted to refute the long list I provided, and now I am thoroughly impressed by your ability to back up your racist bigotry with "way more papers" and also refute the specific genetic, historical, linguistic and sociological arguments in the academic and scientific studies I listed.

[Anonymous]

Reading this thread, and how stubbornly the white OPs are in blind denial, really brings home how deeply entrenched white privilege and racism is in America. I am shocked by the level of denial in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading this thread, and how stubbornly the white OPs are in blind denial, really brings home how deeply entrenched white privilege and racism is in America. I am shocked by the level of denial in this thread.

The use of yoga for physical exercise is both perfectly acceptable and does nothing to increase enlightenment. It is ridiculous to tell a bunch of people that they are practicing Hinduism because they are using asanas for physical health.

http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/yoga-hindu-origins

[Anonymous]

Western Christianity has a huge amount of sacred music that is used as a pathway to praising God. That is its purpose. Yet you can still sing that music as an atheist and not be engaged in prayer. You are just singing beautiful music.