what have Hill parents demanded of middle schools?

[Anonymous]

How is allowing a low-income or low-performing student to attend SH serve as an escape route? Seriously. In sll liklihood they will continue to live with a single parent in poverty, require multiple family supports, and ultimately drop out before graduating from HS. Very few will ever attend college. The odds are stacked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think for Brent it was that Jefferson does a great job remediating the outrageously dismal test scores of Amidon. If Amidon students went to JEfferson with the a higher level of proficiency, Brent parents would be more likely to give Jefferson a shot. But is is galling that Stuart-Hobson is actually closer to Brent and more part of Captiol hill neighborhood, yet S-H is not an option.

So, a simplier option is to make S-H a middle school option for those that live in the S-H area. They could do this by stopping the automatic feed to S-H for those that attend certain elementary schools that feed into S-H out of boundary.

Stopping the automatic feed into a middle school based upon what elementary school you attended for 5th grade would actually reduce many DCPS problems.

The problem with this, from DCPS's point of view, is that it shuts down an escape route for lower-SES families from dismal neighborhood schools. When >50% of DCPS students can't perform at grade level, that's a more glaring, demanding, urgent issue than satisfying the Brent parents. It's already a given that the majority of those parents will choose Latin or Basis over SH even if it were an option.

I get it now. More than half of DCPS students are not able to obtain proficiency by fifth grade so the answer is to simply push them along to middle school with fingers crossed they will magically be able to catch up, but not hold back those who are already proficient and above. That still sounds like social promotion not an "escape route.". The glaring, demanding, urgent issue that DCPS needs to fix is elementary schools at which the majority of children are not learning. The Rhee/Henderson regime, with support from tbe anti-union foundations runs by the like of the Koch and Walton families, and enabled by Fenty and Gray, have perpetrated a fraud on DC residents. Unfortunately it is too late for anyone to do anything for most lower-SES families in terms of education reform. Despite all the ballyhoo about change test scores across LEAs are overwhelming stagnant, even in spite of a ham-fisted effort to fudge the numbers. Let's just watch what happens when a new breed stops blaming teachers and unions. Schools alone cannot ameliorate entrenched societal inequities.

But you can't let the principals and teachers entirely off the hook, either. I used to do research in low-performing public schools in PGCPS. When I would interview teachers, some would say things like, "If I just reach one student, then I will consider my work this year a success." These teachers viewed themselves as martyred social workers doing charity work, not teachers paid to instruct children. Basic literacy and numeracy is a low bar that is achievable for most children, even poor ones. If what you're doing isn't working, try something else. Don't just throw your hands up and tell yourself your doing "God's work."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The charters aren't test-in or selective. Why does public need to be?

I think the poster who mentioned the power of "word of mouth" marketing hit the nail on the head. Some of these schools which have excellent potential and already impressive programs (such as Eastern) have a real marketing problem when it comes to a lot of Hill families.

We need a public test-in middle school in order to stop the flight to the charters. DCPS is heading in a direction where it will only be able to fill 2-3 high schools, even though we have overflowing elementaries. College-educated families worry that their children will arrive at college unprepared for the work, due to the need for the schools to teach to the middle of extreme high and lows in DCPS. They bail out around middle school when they realize that their child will never really be taught grammar, spelling, a foreign language or higher math at the rate they are going. Charters currently stand in for magnet-type schools. Fight fire with fire and there will be space for lots of bright students in DCPS and DCPCS.

Kaya will never see it that way unless the Council gives DCPS it's own chartering authority, leaving DC with three underperforming systems. Look at the millions DCPS has thrown at modernizing high schools. It is not going to walk away from institutions that are historically held in high regard by the AA community. Baby steps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think for Brent it was that Jefferson does a great job remediating the outrageously dismal test scores of Amidon. If Amidon students went to JEfferson with the a higher level of proficiency, Brent parents would be more likely to give Jefferson a shot. But is is galling that Stuart-Hobson is actually closer to Brent and more part of Captiol hill neighborhood, yet S-H is not an option.

So, a simplier option is to make S-H a middle school option for those that live in the S-H area. They could do this by stopping the automatic feed to S-H for those that attend certain elementary schools that feed into S-H out of boundary.

Stopping the automatic feed into a middle school based upon what elementary school you attended for 5th grade would actually reduce many DCPS problems.

The problem with this, from DCPS's point of view, is that it shuts down an escape route for lower-SES families from dismal neighborhood schools. When >50% of DCPS students can't perform at grade level, that's a more glaring, demanding, urgent issue than satisfying the Brent parents. It's already a given that the majority of those parents will choose Latin or Basis over SH even if it were an option.

I get it now. More than half of DCPS students are not able to obtain proficiency by fifth grade so the answer is to simply push them along to middle school with fingers crossed they will magically be able to catch up, but not hold back those who are already proficient and above. That still sounds like social promotion not an "escape route.". The glaring, demanding, urgent issue that DCPS needs to fix is elementary schools at which the majority of children are not learning. The Rhee/Henderson regime, with support from tbe anti-union foundations runs by the like of the Koch and Walton families, and enabled by Fenty and Gray, have perpetrated a fraud on DC residents. Unfortunately it is too late for anyone to do anything for most lower-SES families in terms of education reform. Despite all the ballyhoo about change test scores across LEAs are overwhelming stagnant, even in spite of a ham-fisted effort to fudge the numbers. Let's just watch what happens when a new breed stops blaming teachers and unions. Schools alone cannot ameliorate entrenched societal inequities.

But you can't let the principals and teachers entirely off the hook, either. I used to do research in low-performing public schools in PGCPS. When I would interview teachers, some would say things like, "If I just reach one student, then I will consider my work this year a success." These teachers viewed themselves as martyred social workers doing charity work, not teachers paid to instruct children. Basic literacy and numeracy is a low bar that is achievable for most children, even poor ones. If what you're doing isn't working, try something else. Don't just throw your hands up and tell yourself your doing "God's work."

To be clear, I am not advocating to let anyone off the hook. Are there teachers who should no longer be in the classroom? Absolutely. Have I advocated for my child to be assigned to a teacher who I consider to be the strongest? Absolutely. Do I want more academic rigor for my children so that they are comtinually challenged? Absolutely. But I have those luxuries. In far too many instances teachers have to devote substantial effort simply establishing order in a classroom of students who have no respect for teachers and do not value education. What exactly are they supposed to do when most of their students show up without the ability to read, write a sentence using proper grammar, or do basic math? Raising the bar without more is not a solution.

[Anonymous]

They are supposed to teach basic grammar, reading and math that was missed earlier. It is the only right thing to do. And a hard thing to do. And almost impossible to do while also taking the properly educated students to the next level

[Anonymous]

Easier said than done.

[Anonymous]

How many of these teachers were recruited through TFA and have only a couple of years of classroom experience? This is not to say they cannot become great teachers but the learning curve is precipitous and consequences dire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't agree. Demanding something of DCPS doesn't really get results. It is a messed up inequitable system. Generations of parents have dealt with this by putting students in Ward 3 schools and now charter schools.

DC owes it to its citizens to correct decades of poor management. Parents have a role to play as well. But it is the system that is rotten.

The problem is endemic, concentrated poverty. When the demographics of DCPS schools are such that 3/4 of students are middle class, they succeed. If not, they fail. It's that simple. No school system has been able to change that fundamental fact.

[Anonymous]

The the answer needs to be economic integration in schools. The new bussing?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
The problem with this, from DCPS's point of view, is that it shuts down an escape route for lower-SES families from dismal neighborhood schools. When >50% of DCPS students can't perform at grade level, that's a more glaring, demanding, urgent issue than satisfying the Brent parents. It's already a given that the majority of those parents will choose Latin or Basis over SH even if it were an option.[/quote]

The disparities need to be addressed, but I wouldn't want my kids in a school where 100% of kids are simply at grade level. Proficiency needs to be the floor, not the ceiling. If DCPS feels its mission is straight mediocrity that's the trade-off, because Latin and Basis aim higher. The Ward 3 schools aim higher.[/quote]



Yes, if only those students in Ward 7 would wake up tomorrow and be just like the students in Palisades? Why, they could have Key in their own neighborhood by next week! Thanks for the useful suggestion!

It's easier to aim higher when you're starting from a launchpad instead of a sand trap. [/quote]

You make a lot of assumptions. DCPS doesn't retain enough advance MS students to bring up the floor. The baseline expections are woefully low, and they fail to meet even that. They fail the Ward 7 kids as much as they are failed by circumstance. Even success comes with a big question mark. And why is KIPP so successful at educating these Ward 7 kids where DCPS fails miserably?[/quote]

Combination of self-selection and aggressive expulsion policies. I tend to think that DCPS should follow suit. Create 3-4 schools that are essentially "remedial/reform" schools, and if a student can't hack it in the mainstream they get transferred to the "special" school.

Meanwhile, the kids who are prepared and ready to behave stay in the mainstream school.

Of course, there's no way on earth that would fly, because the "reform" schools would be overwhelmingly AA (because poor). Also, you'd fall afoul of special ed regulations because most of the special ed cases in DCPS are not cognitive (e.g. autism) but behavioral (e.g. uncontrollable impulse to stab authority figures in the neck)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The the answer needs to be economic integration in schools. The new bussing?

Problem is you need to get poor, below proficient students down to about 30% of a given school. That's the exact opposite of busing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The the answer needs to be economic integration in schools. The new bussing?

Except there aren't enough high-SES families with school aged to make the numbers work. It's an easy proposition if the city were roughly divided among high-, middle- and low-SES. Oh, and it would result in white flight part deux.

[Anonymous]

^^^ school aged children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think for Brent it was that Jefferson does a great job remediating the outrageously dismal test scores of Amidon. If Amidon students went to JEfferson with the a higher level of proficiency, Brent parents would be more likely to give Jefferson a shot. But is is galling that Stuart-Hobson is actually closer to Brent and more part of Captiol hill neighborhood, yet S-H is not an option.

So, a simplier option is to make S-H a middle school option for those that live in the S-H area. They could do this by stopping the automatic feed to S-H for those that attend certain elementary schools that feed into S-H out of boundary.

Stopping the automatic feed into a middle school based upon what elementary school you attended for 5th grade would actually reduce many DCPS problems.

The problem with this, from DCPS's point of view, is that it shuts down an escape route for lower-SES families from dismal neighborhood schools. When >50% of DCPS students can't perform at grade level, that's a more glaring, demanding, urgent issue than satisfying the Brent parents. It's already a given that the majority of those parents will choose Latin or Basis over SH even if it were an option.

I get it now. More than half of DCPS students are not able to obtain proficiency by fifth grade so the answer is to simply push them along to middle school with fingers crossed they will magically be able to catch up, but not hold back those who are already proficient and above. That still sounds like social promotion not an "escape route.". The glaring, demanding, urgent issue that DCPS needs to fix is elementary schools at which the majority of children are not learning. The Rhee/Henderson regime, with support from tbe anti-union foundations runs by the like of the Koch and Walton families, and enabled by Fenty and Gray, have perpetrated a fraud on DC residents. Unfortunately it is too late for anyone to do anything for most lower-SES families in terms of education reform. Despite all the ballyhoo about change test scores across LEAs are overwhelming stagnant, even in spite of a ham-fisted effort to fudge the numbers. Let's just watch what happens when a new breed stops blaming teachers and unions. Schools alone cannot ameliorate entrenched societal inequities.

Since this is a conversation about schools, it seems the height of defeatism to say "schools alone cannot ameliorate entrenched societal inequities."

The equation goes something like this:

a) Without dramatic changes to the support and social welfare society provides to the very poor their children are doomed to failure.

b) DCPS (or DC government in general) is not going to dramatically enhance the social welfare programs for the very poor, since DC already spends a massive amount of revenues on ameliorating poverty.

c) Therefore poor children are doomed to failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think for Brent it was that Jefferson does a great job remediating the outrageously dismal test scores of Amidon. If Amidon students went to JEfferson with the a higher level of proficiency, Brent parents would be more likely to give Jefferson a shot. But is is galling that Stuart-Hobson is actually closer to Brent and more part of Captiol hill neighborhood, yet S-H is not an option.

So, a simplier option is to make S-H a middle school option for those that live in the S-H area. They could do this by stopping the automatic feed to S-H for those that attend certain elementary schools that feed into S-H out of boundary.

Stopping the automatic feed into a middle school based upon what elementary school you attended for 5th grade would actually reduce many DCPS problems.

The problem with this, from DCPS's point of view, is that it shuts down an escape route for lower-SES families from dismal neighborhood schools. When >50% of DCPS students can't perform at grade level, that's a more glaring, demanding, urgent issue than satisfying the Brent parents. It's already a given that the majority of those parents will choose Latin or Basis over SH even if it were an option.

I get it now. More than half of DCPS students are not able to obtain proficiency by fifth grade so the answer is to simply push them along to middle school with fingers crossed they will magically be able to catch up, but not hold back those who are already proficient and above. That still sounds like social promotion not an "escape route.". The glaring, demanding, urgent issue that DCPS needs to fix is elementary schools at which the majority of children are not learning. The Rhee/Henderson regime, with support from tbe anti-union foundations runs by the like of the Koch and Walton families, and enabled by Fenty and Gray, have perpetrated a fraud on DC residents. Unfortunately it is too late for anyone to do anything for most lower-SES families in terms of education reform. Despite all the ballyhoo about change test scores across LEAs are overwhelming stagnant, even in spite of a ham-fisted effort to fudge the numbers. Let's just watch what happens when a new breed stops blaming teachers and unions. Schools alone cannot ameliorate entrenched societal inequities.

But you can't let the principals and teachers entirely off the hook, either. I used to do research in low-performing public schools in PGCPS. When I would interview teachers, some would say things like, "If I just reach one student, then I will consider my work this year a success." These teachers viewed themselves as martyred social workers doing charity work, not teachers paid to instruct children. Basic literacy and numeracy is a low bar that is achievable for most children, even poor ones. If what you're doing isn't working, try something else. Don't just throw your hands up and tell yourself your doing "God's work."

To be clear, I am not advocating to let anyone off the hook. Are there teachers who should no longer be in the classroom? Absolutely. Have I advocated for my child to be assigned to a teacher who I consider to be the strongest? Absolutely. Do I want more academic rigor for my children so that they are comtinually challenged? Absolutely. But I have those luxuries. In far too many instances teachers have to devote substantial effort simply establishing order in a classroom of students who have no respect for teachers and do not value education. What exactly are they supposed to do when most of their students show up without the ability to read, write a sentence using proper grammar, or do basic math? Raising the bar without more is not a solution.

Basically it is incumbent upon elementary schools to develop classroom configurations and pedagogical strategies that address low levels of literacy and numeracy as well as behavioral issues in the earliest grades. Getting the overwhelming majority of children from high poverty schools to read by third grade is not asking too much. Passing them on when they can't is unconscionable. I am hopeful that the district's PS3/PK4 programs will help to address some of these issues but my larger point is that elementary schools in high poverty areas can't just shrug off the fact that the strategies and programs they are currently implementing aren't meeting with much success. They have to work with the kids they have, not the ones they wish they had.