Program analysis webinars

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is visual arts and performing arts usually bundled together in HSs? I can see a lot of reasons to bundle them together, for example, stage design is a great practice opportunity for visual arts students.

There has never been a criteria-based performing arts magnet in MCPS, so we honestly don't have a lot of draw from. Within the DCC, it was a little confusing because Einstein ostensibly had a focus on "Visual and Performing Arts" while Northwood had a focus on "Music, Theatre, and Dance."

In reality, both schools drew kids who were interested in the performing arts, plus there was/is a lot of overlap between kids who were drawn to CAP at Blair and kids who are active in theater/film acting.

VAPA's had a banner couple of years, but the theater program is in the midst of a leadership change, as well as losing (to graduation) one of the best student actors to come out of the DMV in a decade.

It sounds like Blair is also in the middle of some changes to the theater program, and Northwood is a question mark because their program has been hindered by the lack of rehearsal/performance space at the holding school.

Basically, it's all up the air right now and anyone claiming an entire school is going to be "ruined" is engaged in (the wrong kind of) dramatics.

The better music, theater, arts kids are doing it privately. I’m not sure how many kids they will actually get from Northwood and some of the surrounding schools if the W schools already have strong arts programs due to the kids doing things privately and private lessons. It wouldn’t make sense to leave a stronger school academically as many of the kids are very bright and academic on top of being talented. And, would the better music teachers be willing.

It’s going to ruin the school as without the arts or strong academics there is zero draw to Einstein beyond VAC. vAPA is the overall arts and it will still exist but I would assume there will be even few teachers supporting the arts if there is a reduction in students as it doesn’t seem to be a priority to the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is visual arts and performing arts usually bundled together in HSs? I can see a lot of reasons to bundle them together, for example, stage design is a great practice opportunity for visual arts students.

There has never been a criteria-based performing arts magnet in MCPS, so we honestly don't have a lot of draw from. Within the DCC, it was a little confusing because Einstein ostensibly had a focus on "Visual and Performing Arts" while Northwood had a focus on "Music, Theatre, and Dance."

In reality, both schools drew kids who were interested in the performing arts, plus there was/is a lot of overlap between kids who were drawn to CAP at Blair and kids who are active in theater/film acting.

VAPA's had a banner couple of years, but the theater program is in the midst of a leadership change, as well as losing (to graduation) one of the best student actors to come out of the DMV in a decade.

It sounds like Blair is also in the middle of some changes to the theater program, and Northwood is a question mark because their program has been hindered by the lack of rehearsal/performance space at the holding school.

Basically, it's all up the air right now and anyone claiming an entire school is going to be "ruined" is engaged in (the wrong kind of) dramatics.

💯

There are still talented kids in theater and the new theater teacher seems to really be trying hard. The cohort and teachers are far more important than a fancy new space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight- we're in region 6; but why can't they swap out Education at Einstein with Performing Arts at Northwood since Einstein already has a well-regarded and established performing arts program? I can see why Einstein parents would be pissed. On the other hand, Einstein isn't the only one in this predicament. At Region 6, they're ripping out the popular medical program at Seneca and putting it at Clarksburg.

BCC has a better education program than Einstein (they have an ion-site lab preschool). They should put education there and Humanities at Einstein.

That’s a good point about the preschool. They should put stem at Einstein.

They're not going to take STEM from Blair

[Anonymous]

I predict that the BOE will rubber-stamp this garbage proposal in December with no oversight whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight- we're in region 6; but why can't they swap out Education at Einstein with Performing Arts at Northwood since Einstein already has a well-regarded and established performing arts program? I can see why Einstein parents would be pissed. On the other hand, Einstein isn't the only one in this predicament. At Region 6, they're ripping out the popular medical program at Seneca and putting it at Clarksburg.

BCC has a better education program than Einstein (they have an ion-site lab preschool). They should put education there and Humanities at Einstein.

That’s a good point about the preschool. They should put stem at Einstein.

They're not going to take STEM from Blair

They can do both. Kids are not going to have school choice and there will only be a few slots open so the kids left at their home schools are up a creek. If this happens we’ll pull our kid as it’s already watered down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I predict that the BOE will rubber-stamp this garbage proposal in December with no oversight whatsoever.

Agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Einstein parents taking over every single program analysis thread? There is plenty of hate to go around about the prigram analysis from every single school. Yet Einstein parents feel the need to dominate all these threads.

There are a lot of Einstein parents here because there is a lot of concern at Einstein. It feels like we are being uniquely screwed over. I don’t understand moving a well established program that is extremely popular with the students to another school altogether, perhaps because they are getting nicer facilities. My older child came to Einstein not really caring much about VAPA yet it quickly became the highlight of his high school experience. I want the same for my younger kid.

But they're not moving VAPA to Northwood. Northwood has a performing arts-focused academy already, just like Einstein does. The new program will be criteria-based, unlike either current program.

You may have missed the earlier thoughts on the matter:

Northwood's magnet will draw performing arts students from Einstein who, under the current system, almost certainly would stay at Einstein.

Students from the rest of the DCC (Northwood included) who, under the current paradigm, typically would choose Einstein for its performing arts program no longer will be able to do so.

Each of these factors will reduce Einstein's VAPA program enrollment, with nothing in the offing to bolster that enrollment.

When a program's enrollment declines, MCPS's custom is to reduce class offerings within that program or eliminate the program, altogether.

This predictable outcome is not good for the Einstein community.

The PP stated "I don’t understand moving a well established program that is extremely popular with the students to another school altogether" - this is patently false. VAPA isn't being moved. A new program is being placed at Northwood, and PP wishes it would be placed at Einstein instead.

Yes, creating lots of magnet programs has the potential to move motivated and well resourced kids out of their home schools. This is a bigger problem for schools with lower income student populations. 7 magnet programs for 5 schools is a little bonkers. I don't think Einstein is really being uniquely screwed over. It has the lowest FARMS rate in the DCC so I can see the basis for putting more magnets in Blair and Northwood. I don't think BCC really "needs" a magnet, much less two of them, but this is more questioning of the magnets themselves rather than their location. I assume it is a way to have a couple of programs that are reasonably close to Whitman to make it seem "fair"/reduce travel times for kids in the west. But based on current data there isn't much demand from Whitman for IB anyway.

It looks like this analysis accounted only for special programs and not the availability of advanced courses at wealthier schools. For example, in the program asset map, Whitman is listed as not having "advanced science/math" but it seems from people here that it does have more advanced math and science courses than say Einstein. This entire process assumes all students and schools have the same needs for special programs, but they don't.

On their not "moving" VAPA:

If VAPA declines, as might be relatively predictable given the outline of conditions/effects noted in the prior post, it may well be shut (also noted in the prior post). I think you argue semantics, rather than substance, with the "moving" poster in this case.

On their not "uniquely screwing over" Einstein:

Einstein loses the tug of war with Northwood over Performing Arts. (criteria-based)
Einstein loses the tug of war with B-CC over IB. (criteria-based)
Einstein loses the tug of war with Whitman over Languages. (interest-based, but with promise of some academic heft)
The new Humanities magnet is placed at B-CC. (criteria-based)
Not that it is likely for Einstein, but the Engineering magnet goes to Blair. (interest-based, but also with promise of academic heft)
Einstein treads water with VAC.
Einstein "wins" the interest-based magnet for its Education program (extant at each of the 5 schools) and gets an interest-based Design magnet -- neither likely to draw with heft.

It may not be unique across the entire system, but it clearly is getting the short stick -- and by far -- across this region, with the needle veering toward each of the other schools when comparing.

Why say they are "moving VAPA" when they aren't? It makes no sense. There is currently a performing arts program at Northwood and "moving it" implies there isn't one, which is kind of disrespectful to the Northwood community, don't you think?

It's certainly fair to say the existing program at Einstein might be diluted or even eliminated. That seems like a larger problem with having so many criteria based programs. They are proposing moving a ton of the most motivated and well resourced kids out of their home schools. That just seems like a bad idea overall.

Again, I think it is a matter of semantics in evaluating the intent of that poster who, erroneously from a literal perspective, said they were "moving" VAPA. As you agree, the program might be eliminated, and has a high likelihood of being diluted. That's the substance, with the specific application to Einstein being somewhat unique in that a concentrated Arts magnet that might make the school an equitable draw has been selected against while other magnet assignments (e.g., Humanities) that alternately might achieve some semblance of equity likewise have been ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is visual arts and performing arts usually bundled together in HSs? I can see a lot of reasons to bundle them together, for example, stage design is a great practice opportunity for visual arts students.

There has never been a criteria-based performing arts magnet in MCPS, so we honestly don't have a lot of draw from. Within the DCC, it was a little confusing because Einstein ostensibly had a focus on "Visual and Performing Arts" while Northwood had a focus on "Music, Theatre, and Dance."

In reality, both schools drew kids who were interested in the performing arts, plus there was/is a lot of overlap between kids who were drawn to CAP at Blair and kids who are active in theater/film acting.

VAPA's had a banner couple of years, but the theater program is in the midst of a leadership change, as well as losing (to graduation) one of the best student actors to come out of the DMV in a decade.

It sounds like Blair is also in the middle of some changes to the theater program, and Northwood is a question mark because their program has been hindered by the lack of rehearsal/performance space at the holding school.

Basically, it's all up the air right now and anyone claiming an entire school is going to be "ruined" is engaged in (the wrong kind of) dramatics.

The better music, theater, arts kids are doing it privately. I’m not sure how many kids they will actually get from Northwood and some of the surrounding schools if the W schools already have strong arts programs due to the kids doing things privately and private lessons. It wouldn’t make sense to leave a stronger school academically as many of the kids are very bright and academic on top of being talented. And, would the better music teachers be willing.

It’s going to ruin the school as without the arts or strong academics there is zero draw to Einstein beyond VAC. vAPA is the overall arts and it will still exist but I would assume there will be even few teachers supporting the arts if there is a reduction in students as it doesn’t seem to be a priority to the principal.

Clearly BOE a priority for Mr Brown if they hired an unverified teacher for chorus coming from being a homeroom elementary teacher. Embarrassing that she uses her personal Instagram to share audition sign ups.

[Anonymous]

I meant uncertified and clearly not a priority. Typing too fast out of anger that more people aren’t upset by this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is visual arts and performing arts usually bundled together in HSs? I can see a lot of reasons to bundle them together, for example, stage design is a great practice opportunity for visual arts students.

There has never been a criteria-based performing arts magnet in MCPS, so we honestly don't have a lot of draw from. Within the DCC, it was a little confusing because Einstein ostensibly had a focus on "Visual and Performing Arts" while Northwood had a focus on "Music, Theatre, and Dance."

In reality, both schools drew kids who were interested in the performing arts, plus there was/is a lot of overlap between kids who were drawn to CAP at Blair and kids who are active in theater/film acting.

VAPA's had a banner couple of years, but the theater program is in the midst of a leadership change, as well as losing (to graduation) one of the best student actors to come out of the DMV in a decade.

It sounds like Blair is also in the middle of some changes to the theater program, and Northwood is a question mark because their program has been hindered by the lack of rehearsal/performance space at the holding school.

Basically, it's all up the air right now and anyone claiming an entire school is going to be "ruined" is engaged in (the wrong kind of) dramatics.

The better music, theater, arts kids are doing it privately. I’m not sure how many kids they will actually get from Northwood and some of the surrounding schools if the W schools already have strong arts programs due to the kids doing things privately and private lessons. It wouldn’t make sense to leave a stronger school academically as many of the kids are very bright and academic on top of being talented. And, would the better music teachers be willing.

It’s going to ruin the school as without the arts or strong academics there is zero draw to Einstein beyond VAC. vAPA is the overall arts and it will still exist but I would assume there will be even few teachers supporting the arts if there is a reduction in students as it doesn’t seem to be a priority to the principal.

Clearly BOE a priority for Mr Brown if they hired an unverified teacher for chorus coming from being a homeroom elementary teacher. Embarrassing that she uses her personal Instagram to share audition sign ups.

There is no accountability in posting students on social media in Mcps.

Vapa can still exist but the more talented kids will choose Northwood. Some of the kids do vac, music and theater so that will be bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I meant uncertified and clearly not a priority. Typing too fast out of anger that more people aren’t upset by this

I’m not too sure what the principal’s priorities are right now. He has relaxed things with an open lunch and allowing food delivery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Einstein parents taking over every single program analysis thread? There is plenty of hate to go around about the prigram analysis from every single school. Yet Einstein parents feel the need to dominate all these threads.

There are a lot of Einstein parents here because there is a lot of concern at Einstein. It feels like we are being uniquely screwed over. I don’t understand moving a well established program that is extremely popular with the students to another school altogether, perhaps because they are getting nicer facilities. My older child came to Einstein not really caring much about VAPA yet it quickly became the highlight of his high school experience. I want the same for my younger kid.

But they're not moving VAPA to Northwood. Northwood has a performing arts-focused academy already, just like Einstein does. The new program will be criteria-based, unlike either current program.

You may have missed the earlier thoughts on the matter:

Northwood's magnet will draw performing arts students from Einstein who, under the current system, almost certainly would stay at Einstein.

Students from the rest of the DCC (Northwood included) who, under the current paradigm, typically would choose Einstein for its performing arts program no longer will be able to do so.

Each of these factors will reduce Einstein's VAPA program enrollment, with nothing in the offing to bolster that enrollment.

When a program's enrollment declines, MCPS's custom is to reduce class offerings within that program or eliminate the program, altogether.

This predictable outcome is not good for the Einstein community.

The PP stated "I don’t understand moving a well established program that is extremely popular with the students to another school altogether" - this is patently false. VAPA isn't being moved. A new program is being placed at Northwood, and PP wishes it would be placed at Einstein instead.

Yes, creating lots of magnet programs has the potential to move motivated and well resourced kids out of their home schools. This is a bigger problem for schools with lower income student populations. 7 magnet programs for 5 schools is a little bonkers. I don't think Einstein is really being uniquely screwed over. It has the lowest FARMS rate in the DCC so I can see the basis for putting more magnets in Blair and Northwood. I don't think BCC really "needs" a magnet, much less two of them, but this is more questioning of the magnets themselves rather than their location. I assume it is a way to have a couple of programs that are reasonably close to Whitman to make it seem "fair"/reduce travel times for kids in the west. But based on current data there isn't much demand from Whitman for IB anyway.

It looks like this analysis accounted only for special programs and not the availability of advanced courses at wealthier schools. For example, in the program asset map, Whitman is listed as not having "advanced science/math" but it seems from people here that it does have more advanced math and science courses than say Einstein. This entire process assumes all students and schools have the same needs for special programs, but they don't.

On their not "moving" VAPA:

If VAPA declines, as might be relatively predictable given the outline of conditions/effects noted in the prior post, it may well be shut (also noted in the prior post). I think you argue semantics, rather than substance, with the "moving" poster in this case.

On their not "uniquely screwing over" Einstein:

Einstein loses the tug of war with Northwood over Performing Arts. (criteria-based)
Einstein loses the tug of war with B-CC over IB. (criteria-based)
Einstein loses the tug of war with Whitman over Languages. (interest-based, but with promise of some academic heft)
The new Humanities magnet is placed at B-CC. (criteria-based)
Not that it is likely for Einstein, but the Engineering magnet goes to Blair. (interest-based, but also with promise of academic heft)
Einstein treads water with VAC.
Einstein "wins" the interest-based magnet for its Education program (extant at each of the 5 schools) and gets an interest-based Design magnet -- neither likely to draw with heft.

It may not be unique across the entire system, but it clearly is getting the short stick -- and by far -- across this region, with the needle veering toward each of the other schools when comparing.

I don’t think kids will care about IB. How many students will pick education? And, I doubt many kids would choose Whitman for a variety of reasons. But, this does destroy Einstein. On top of your list, reducing students, means reducing staff, so what classes will be reduced?

I think many of you are making a lot of assumptions. I was a huge performing arts kid but wouldn’t have left for a performing arts magnet if it were in a school that couldn’t also provide the high level academic classes and cohort. Others might make different decisions. I think some kids in schools with IB programs care but others just participate because it’s there and wouldn’t apply out to a program if it weren’t. Or maybe they would if they are re-zoned by boundary and want to boomerang back to their current school. Or maybe if people see what the transportation coverage will be, they will say the juice is not worth the squeeze. But we don’t have all the facts.

The truth is everyone is just guessing because MCPS isn’t doing the work of figuring out level of interest of any of these programs. They have skipped so many steps. But rest assured they will plow forward and we will all see all the very avoidable problems that occur because they think their assumptions are facts and they think they know best.

+1. I think the BOE should conduct a performance evaluation of the superintendent now, based on the poor performance of the school district with this sub=par effort. These are huge changes that are not being planned appropriately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are Einstein parents taking over every single program analysis thread? There is plenty of hate to go around about the prigram analysis from every single school. Yet Einstein parents feel the need to dominate all these threads.

There are a lot of Einstein parents here because there is a lot of concern at Einstein. It feels like we are being uniquely screwed over. I don’t understand moving a well established program that is extremely popular with the students to another school altogether, perhaps because they are getting nicer facilities. My older child came to Einstein not really caring much about VAPA yet it quickly became the highlight of his high school experience. I want the same for my younger kid.

But they're not moving VAPA to Northwood. Northwood has a performing arts-focused academy already, just like Einstein does. The new program will be criteria-based, unlike either current program.

You may have missed the earlier thoughts on the matter:

Northwood's magnet will draw performing arts students from Einstein who, under the current system, almost certainly would stay at Einstein.

Students from the rest of the DCC (Northwood included) who, under the current paradigm, typically would choose Einstein for its performing arts program no longer will be able to do so.

Each of these factors will reduce Einstein's VAPA program enrollment, with nothing in the offing to bolster that enrollment.

When a program's enrollment declines, MCPS's custom is to reduce class offerings within that program or eliminate the program, altogether.

This predictable outcome is not good for the Einstein community.

The PP stated "I don’t understand moving a well established program that is extremely popular with the students to another school altogether" - this is patently false. VAPA isn't being moved. A new program is being placed at Northwood, and PP wishes it would be placed at Einstein instead.

Yes, creating lots of magnet programs has the potential to move motivated and well resourced kids out of their home schools. This is a bigger problem for schools with lower income student populations. 7 magnet programs for 5 schools is a little bonkers. I don't think Einstein is really being uniquely screwed over. It has the lowest FARMS rate in the DCC so I can see the basis for putting more magnets in Blair and Northwood. I don't think BCC really "needs" a magnet, much less two of them, but this is more questioning of the magnets themselves rather than their location. I assume it is a way to have a couple of programs that are reasonably close to Whitman to make it seem "fair"/reduce travel times for kids in the west. But based on current data there isn't much demand from Whitman for IB anyway.

It looks like this analysis accounted only for special programs and not the availability of advanced courses at wealthier schools. For example, in the program asset map, Whitman is listed as not having "advanced science/math" but it seems from people here that it does have more advanced math and science courses than say Einstein. This entire process assumes all students and schools have the same needs for special programs, but they don't.

On their not "moving" VAPA:

If VAPA declines, as might be relatively predictable given the outline of conditions/effects noted in the prior post, it may well be shut (also noted in the prior post). I think you argue semantics, rather than substance, with the "moving" poster in this case.

On their not "uniquely screwing over" Einstein:

Einstein loses the tug of war with Northwood over Performing Arts. (criteria-based)
Einstein loses the tug of war with B-CC over IB. (criteria-based)
Einstein loses the tug of war with Whitman over Languages. (interest-based, but with promise of some academic heft)
The new Humanities magnet is placed at B-CC. (criteria-based)
Not that it is likely for Einstein, but the Engineering magnet goes to Blair. (interest-based, but also with promise of academic heft)
Einstein treads water with VAC.
Einstein "wins" the interest-based magnet for its Education program (extant at each of the 5 schools) and gets an interest-based Design magnet -- neither likely to draw with heft.

It may not be unique across the entire system, but it clearly is getting the short stick -- and by far -- across this region, with the needle veering toward each of the other schools when comparing.

I don’t think kids will care about IB. How many students will pick education? And, I doubt many kids would choose Whitman for a variety of reasons. But, this does destroy Einstein. On top of your list, reducing students, means reducing staff, so what classes will be reduced?

I think many of you are making a lot of assumptions. I was a huge performing arts kid but wouldn’t have left for a performing arts magnet if it were in a school that couldn’t also provide the high level academic classes and cohort. Others might make different decisions. I think some kids in schools with IB programs care but others just participate because it’s there and wouldn’t apply out to a program if it weren’t. Or maybe they would if they are re-zoned by boundary and want to boomerang back to their current school. Or maybe if people see what the transportation coverage will be, they will say the juice is not worth the squeeze. But we don’t have all the facts.

The truth is everyone is just guessing because MCPS isn’t doing the work of figuring out level of interest of any of these programs. They have skipped so many steps. But rest assured they will plow forward and we will all see all the very avoidable problems that occur because they think their assumptions are facts and they think they know best.

+1. I think the BOE should conduct a performance evaluation of the superintendent now, based on the poor performance of the school district with this sub=par effort. These are huge changes that are not being planned appropriately.

We have been through multiple superintendents and another one will not make a difference given the BOE will not do their job and actually provide oversight. Given multiple problem superintendents, when will the BOE be held accountable as this all falls under them.