When is the plan for new HS programs coming out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

While many students are interested in attending established programs like Blair SMAC, Poolesville SMAC, or RM IB due to their strong reputations and academic rigor, that doesn’t mean they would be equally eager to enroll in a brand-new SMAC or IB program in a different region. New programs come with uncertainty and unproven track records, which pose significant risks for students making important educational decisions. Instead of expanding opportunities, this approach may actually limit these students’ chances to attend the established programs they aspire to , effectively taking away options rather than creating them.

Indeed. It would be a disservice to implement this without robust and equivalent programs across the regions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

Which school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

While many students are interested in attending established programs like Blair SMAC, Poolesville SMAC, or RM IB due to their strong reputations and academic rigor, that doesn’t mean they would be equally eager to enroll in a brand-new SMAC or IB program in a different region. New programs come with uncertainty and unproven track records, which pose significant risks for students making important educational decisions. Instead of expanding opportunities, this approach may actually limit these students’ chances to attend the established programs they aspire to , effectively taking away options rather than creating them.

That would be a personal choice of that student then. They can attend the new program or don’t. Having the special programs is not guaranteed when going to public school. Not expanding programs because some students are afraid of change and this denying other students the possibility of opportunity doesn’t make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

This is a very good point. My child ended up sort of specializing in high school by choosing electives centered around their interest. The interest is so strong they want to continue in college. But neither child nor us would have picked that in grade 8. What helped was a solid all around high school with lots of elective choices and room to explore and then specialize later.

I know a lot of kids including mine would have like to do speciality and were waitlisted or denied. We only applied to one due to transportation issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

Which school?

Einstein.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

This is a very good point. My child ended up sort of specializing in high school by choosing electives centered around their interest. The interest is so strong they want to continue in college. But neither child nor us would have picked that in grade 8. What helped was a solid all around high school with lots of elective choices and room to explore and then specialize later.

Then your child and others are free to stay at their home HS, just like they can now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

If they didn't do them together, it would undermine the effectiveness of any planned boundary change.

They definitely need to ensure program capacity capable of meeting the expected need of the student population in each region. That likely is among the reasons they have to ensure some economic diversity in each region. I think that plays to an improper narrative regarding the relationship of economic status to student ability, but correcting that may take a much longer time, filtering through communities over the whole of a student's educational experience and only ever approaching rectification in a best-we-can-do-given-resourcing/logistics/edge-case-difficulty manner.

We’re not talking about conducting the studies at different times, we’re talking about how you communicate the information. In each of the BOE updates the data and dialogue for each is done together but they are two very separate initiatives that have some overlapping dependencies. The boundary study has all types of analysis and community meetings setup to review and discuss, the same isn’t true for the program analysis.

So they should probably separate conversation about the two so as to reduce confusion. And, if they feel that keeping them together helps engagement, then they need to figure out a communication strategy that allows for that.

Currently there is a lot of attention on the boundaries and not nearly as much on the programs. But what will be complained about much longer of not done right is the programming.

[Anonymous]

What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

This is a very good point. My child ended up sort of specializing in high school by choosing electives centered around their interest. The interest is so strong they want to continue in college. But neither child nor us would have picked that in grade 8. What helped was a solid all around high school with lots of elective choices and room to explore and then specialize later.

Then your child and others are free to stay at their home HS, just like they can now.

Oh of course. Mine will be graduated anyway. I am just saying that I think it is a good idea to make sure that there are flexible pathways in addition to programs and that it is important to make sure that the focus on programs doesn’t come at the expense of having a wide range of electives in all schools. Not every kid can decide in the fall of 8th grade what they want. Life changes in unpredictable ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

Which school?

Einstein.

Oh interesting. So their website says that they offer all the AP science classes. That is not reality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

While many students are interested in attending established programs like Blair SMAC, Poolesville SMAC, or RM IB due to their strong reputations and academic rigor, that doesn’t mean they would be equally eager to enroll in a brand-new SMAC or IB program in a different region. New programs come with uncertainty and unproven track records, which pose significant risks for students making important educational decisions. Instead of expanding opportunities, this approach may actually limit these students’ chances to attend the established programs they aspire to , effectively taking away options rather than creating them.

That would be a personal choice of that student then. They can attend the new program or don’t. Having the special programs is not guaranteed when going to public school. Not expanding programs because some students are afraid of change and this denying other students the possibility of opportunity doesn’t make sense.

Well give other students the opportunities shouldn’t mean denying opportunities for these students. If it’s personal choice, then why not keep the countywide programs and open up additional regional programs so both types of students can have opportunities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

If they didn't do them together, it would undermine the effectiveness of any planned boundary change.

They definitely need to ensure program capacity capable of meeting the expected need of the student population in each region. That likely is among the reasons they have to ensure some economic diversity in each region. I think that plays to an improper narrative regarding the relationship of economic status to student ability, but correcting that may take a much longer time, filtering through communities over the whole of a student's educational experience and only ever approaching rectification in a best-we-can-do-given-resourcing/logistics/edge-case-difficulty manner.

We’re not talking about conducting the studies at different times, we’re talking about how you communicate the information. In each of the BOE updates the data and dialogue for each is done together but they are two very separate initiatives that have some overlapping dependencies. The boundary study has all types of analysis and community meetings setup to review and discuss, the same isn’t true for the program analysis.

So they should probably separate conversation about the two so as to reduce confusion. And, if they feel that keeping them together helps engagement, then they need to figure out a communication strategy that allows for that.

Currently there is a lot of attention on the boundaries and not nearly as much on the programs. But what will be complained about much longer of not done right is the programming.

Mcps and the BOE do not believe in transparency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

Which school?

Einstein.

Oh interesting. So their website says that they offer all the AP science classes. That is not reality?

You have to look at the course guide for that year not the website. No it’s not true. We looked at the website when picking it for our first kid and it was misleading. They don’t offer a lot of what they say they do. Principal says he picks and chooses not to. He claims not enough interest but the guidance counselor’s actively discourage kids from taking advanced math and science except foreign language which they push.