Why are DCUM parents less inclined to have their child major in business?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

+1 my CS major kid, who went to a magnet program, 4.0 uwgpa, 4.92 wgpa, 1580 SAT kid said they want work/life balance. They aren't interested in prestige.

My friend who was has an accounting degree from a no name state u made good money for many years. They retired at 50 and moved to Portugal with their family. They aren't hyperfocused on pedigrees and "what do you do for a living", unlike some on this forum.

I wish I had taken the accounting route when in college. I see many content accountants, retiring early, not into the prestige and they have the flexibility with various paths in their career as they wind down their careers. And they’re smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

Accounting is the backbone for any entity- for or nonprofit. From there you can combine with other interests. No entity can exist long without proper financial and cash flow planning. This is not a degree for dummies. Successful accountants can become. cfos and even ceos without even getting an mba. And if you have strong people skills even better. also your job will always exist. strong accountants and fpa roles are actually needed more during a recession. PPs who claim this is a major for dummies and compare it to a trade don't have a clue. It is also gives you very helpful skills for your personal life.

+1 i dont understand why DCUM is so big on Management Consulting but then dont like the Business Degree. Management Consulting strategy is 100% based on understanding the levers that you can pull that impact your P&L and cashflow, debt etc in order to make your business more appealing to shareholders. The strongest Mgmt consultants know their accounting and financial statements inside out. Understanding the accounting rules makes the difference between an Enron fiasco and a business success. If you work in Management Consulting and do not have an accounting background you will either need to go back to school or change roles eventually. It would be like trying to practice law without going to law school.

That's a somewhat simplistic view of Management Consulting, and the reality is that all new Bain hires go through a 3 month training program (at least it used to be 3 months) where they train you on the Accounting and other aspects you may need.

That said, there are plenty of projects that a company will hire a Bain that are not at all directly related to anything financial. Perhaps an airline will hire you to come up with a more optimized route network that reduces aircraft downtime, risks of violating employee labor agreements, etc. You will use quantitative analysis and critical thinking (it can involve thousands of different iterations and network repercussions) and of course your work product should result in the airline reducing costs and increasing revenue...however, your actual project will never directly involve any financial metrics.

Another example... a Fortune 500 company will hire Bain to determine if they should start a new product line/enter a new market. You will perform lots of quantitative analysis, analyze existing competitors, come up with the $$$ value of the addressable market, etc....but you likely won't ever get into the nitty gritty of their P&L analysis.

There are hundreds of other examples of why a company hires a Bain or equivalent that don't involve much accounting or financial analysis.

Bingo. And that is why Bain and the rest of the top target the smartest kids who can do the quant and the critical thinking, from many different majors as long as they have the background and are from an undergrad they trust. They target about 15-20 schools , ivies and the usual suspects, not random undergrad business majors from schools not on that list.

[Anonymous]

I get a lot of recruiters sending me emails with "Education: BA required (preferably in business) or equivalent experience".

I work in the tech space as a BSA and PM, making six figures. I've done pretty well for myself with just a business undergrad degree from no name state u.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

Accounting is the backbone for any entity- for or nonprofit. From there you can combine with other interests. No entity can exist long without proper financial and cash flow planning. This is not a degree for dummies. Successful accountants can become. cfos and even ceos without even getting an mba. And if you have strong people skills even better. also your job will always exist. strong accountants and fpa roles are actually needed more during a recession. PPs who claim this is a major for dummies and compare it to a trade don't have a clue. It is also gives you very helpful skills for your personal life.

+1 i dont understand why DCUM is so big on Management Consulting but then dont like the Business Degree. Management Consulting strategy is 100% based on understanding the levers that you can pull that impact your P&L and cashflow, debt etc in order to make your business more appealing to shareholders. The strongest Mgmt consultants know their accounting and financial statements inside out. Understanding the accounting rules makes the difference between an Enron fiasco and a business success. If you work in Management Consulting and do not have an accounting background you will either need to go back to school or change roles eventually. It would be like trying to practice law without going to law school.

That's a somewhat simplistic view of Management Consulting, and the reality is that all new Bain hires go through a 3 month training program (at least it used to be 3 months) where they train you on the Accounting and other aspects you may need.

That said, there are plenty of projects that a company will hire a Bain that are not at all directly related to anything financial. Perhaps an airline will hire you to come up with a more optimized route network that reduces aircraft downtime, risks of violating employee labor agreements, etc. You will use quantitative analysis and critical thinking (it can involve thousands of different iterations and network repercussions) and of course your work product should result in the airline reducing costs and increasing revenue...however, your actual project will never directly involve any financial metrics.

Another example... a Fortune 500 company will hire Bain to determine if they should start a new product line/enter a new market. You will perform lots of quantitative analysis, analyze existing competitors, come up with the $$$ value of the addressable market, etc....but you likely won't ever get into the nitty gritty of their P&L analysis.

There are hundreds of other examples of why a company hires a Bain or equivalent that don't involve much accounting or financial analysis.

Bingo. And that is why Bain and the rest of the top target the smartest kids who can do the quant and the critical thinking, from many different majors as long as they have the background and are from an undergrad they trust. They target about 15-20 schools , ivies and the usual suspects, not random undergrad business majors from schools not on that list.

I am PP...in fairness, the Deloittes and Accentures hire 10x the number of college grads as the Bains and McKinseys and they tend to lean more towards finance/accounting majors...but their projects also tend to be very different. For example, you may hire Accenture to help implement an SAP ERP system which requires far more understanding of general ledger and nitty-gritty accounting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

Accounting is the backbone for any entity- for or nonprofit. From there you can combine with other interests. No entity can exist long without proper financial and cash flow planning. This is not a degree for dummies. Successful accountants can become. cfos and even ceos without even getting an mba. And if you have strong people skills even better. also your job will always exist. strong accountants and fpa roles are actually needed more during a recession. PPs who claim this is a major for dummies and compare it to a trade don't have a clue. It is also gives you very helpful skills for your personal life.

+1 i dont understand why DCUM is so big on Management Consulting but then dont like the Business Degree. Management Consulting strategy is 100% based on understanding the levers that you can pull that impact your P&L and cashflow, debt etc in order to make your business more appealing to shareholders. The strongest Mgmt consultants know their accounting and financial statements inside out. Understanding the accounting rules makes the difference between an Enron fiasco and a business success. If you work in Management Consulting and do not have an accounting background you will either need to go back to school or change roles eventually. It would be like trying to practice law without going to law school.

That's a somewhat simplistic view of Management Consulting, and the reality is that all new Bain hires go through a 3 month training program (at least it used to be 3 months) where they train you on the Accounting and other aspects you may need.

That said, there are plenty of projects that a company will hire a Bain that are not at all directly related to anything financial. Perhaps an airline will hire you to come up with a more optimized route network that reduces aircraft downtime, risks of violating employee labor agreements, etc. You will use quantitative analysis and critical thinking (it can involve thousands of different iterations and network repercussions) and of course your work product should result in the airline reducing costs and increasing revenue...however, your actual project will never directly involve any financial metrics.

Another example... a Fortune 500 company will hire Bain to determine if they should start a new product line/enter a new market. You will perform lots of quantitative analysis, analyze existing competitors, come up with the $$$ value of the addressable market, etc....but you likely won't ever get into the nitty gritty of their P&L analysis.

There are hundreds of other examples of why a company hires a Bain or equivalent that don't involve much accounting or financial analysis.

I worked for Bain in CPG consulting. All of the projects touch the P&L in some way. The customer companies dont want just the quantitative analysis. You cant even think about the entering a new product line or market without running a straw man P&L. Also I have noticed that the customer companies hire consultants less and less for anything that cannot prove strong ROI INCLUDING the high fee that the consultants charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get a lot of recruiters sending me emails with "Education: BA required (preferably in business) or equivalent experience".

I work in the tech space as a BSA and PM, making six figures. I've done pretty well for myself with just a business undergrad degree from no name state u.

Same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

Accounting is the backbone for any entity- for or nonprofit. From there you can combine with other interests. No entity can exist long without proper financial and cash flow planning. This is not a degree for dummies. Successful accountants can become. cfos and even ceos without even getting an mba. And if you have strong people skills even better. also your job will always exist. strong accountants and fpa roles are actually needed more during a recession. PPs who claim this is a major for dummies and compare it to a trade don't have a clue. It is also gives you very helpful skills for your personal life.

+1 i dont understand why DCUM is so big on Management Consulting but then dont like the Business Degree. Management Consulting strategy is 100% based on understanding the levers that you can pull that impact your P&L and cashflow, debt etc in order to make your business more appealing to shareholders. The strongest Mgmt consultants know their accounting and financial statements inside out. Understanding the accounting rules makes the difference between an Enron fiasco and a business success. If you work in Management Consulting and do not have an accounting background you will either need to go back to school or change roles eventually. It would be like trying to practice law without going to law school.

Accounting is most likely under School or College of Business.
You are confused.

No YOU are confused. The PP is saying that it is strange that DCUM is so hot on Management Consulting but doesnt like a School of Business degree because Accounting is in the School of Business and those skills are a key advantage in Management Consulting. I worked in Management Consulting and was not an Accountant but an Econ major from a top 15 school and I was at a serious disadvantage to my peers who had a CPA. I eventually had to shell out the $ for MBA (partially employer funded) but I wouldnt have needed that if I had just done Accounting from the beginning. And to the PP who says you can take a 3 month training class at Bain- not really. That is not going to tell you how to value things like Brand names/Goodwill and run proformas when evaluating sell-offs or mergers which is what I worked on in Mgmt Counsulting. There are technical skills that a Philsophy major from a top school is not going to have and the new hire training is not enough. I would much prefer to hire someone who 1) doesnt need to be taught accounting/finance and 2) doesnt come with an Ivy price tag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

Accounting is the backbone for any entity- for or nonprofit. From there you can combine with other interests. No entity can exist long without proper financial and cash flow planning. This is not a degree for dummies. Successful accountants can become. cfos and even ceos without even getting an mba. And if you have strong people skills even better. also your job will always exist. strong accountants and fpa roles are actually needed more during a recession. PPs who claim this is a major for dummies and compare it to a trade don't have a clue. It is also gives you very helpful skills for your personal life.

+1 i dont understand why DCUM is so big on Management Consulting but then dont like the Business Degree. Management Consulting strategy is 100% based on understanding the levers that you can pull that impact your P&L and cashflow, debt etc in order to make your business more appealing to shareholders. The strongest Mgmt consultants know their accounting and financial statements inside out. Understanding the accounting rules makes the difference between an Enron fiasco and a business success. If you work in Management Consulting and do not have an accounting background you will either need to go back to school or change roles eventually. It would be like trying to practice law without going to law school.

Accounting is most likely under School or College of Business.
You are confused.

No YOU are confused. The PP is saying that it is strange that DCUM is so hot on Management Consulting but doesnt like a School of Business degree because Accounting is in the School of Business and those skills are a key advantage in Management Consulting. I worked in Management Consulting and was not an Accountant but an Econ major from a top 15 school and I was at a serious disadvantage to my peers who had a CPA. I eventually had to shell out the $ for MBA (partially employer funded) but I wouldnt have needed that if I had just done Accounting from the beginning. And to the PP who says you can take a 3 month training class at Bain- not really. That is not going to tell you how to value things like Brand names/Goodwill and run proformas when evaluating sell-offs or mergers which is what I worked on in Mgmt Counsulting. There are technical skills that a Philsophy major from a top school is not going to have and the new hire training is not enough. I would much prefer to hire someone who 1) doesnt need to be taught accounting/finance and 2) doesnt come with an Ivy price tag.

It obviously didn't prevent you and I would imagine many others without business degrees from getting the job. Very few people make a career at a Bain or McKinsey...they either use it as a launchpad for graduate school or move in-house to a client.

I guess I am trying to understand how it held you back because you actually worked in an area that you claim needs an Accounting degree...yet you didn't have an accounting degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

Accounting is the backbone for any entity- for or nonprofit. From there you can combine with other interests. No entity can exist long without proper financial and cash flow planning. This is not a degree for dummies. Successful accountants can become. cfos and even ceos without even getting an mba. And if you have strong people skills even better. also your job will always exist. strong accountants and fpa roles are actually needed more during a recession. PPs who claim this is a major for dummies and compare it to a trade don't have a clue. It is also gives you very helpful skills for your personal life.

+1 i dont understand why DCUM is so big on Management Consulting but then dont like the Business Degree. Management Consulting strategy is 100% based on understanding the levers that you can pull that impact your P&L and cashflow, debt etc in order to make your business more appealing to shareholders. The strongest Mgmt consultants know their accounting and financial statements inside out. Understanding the accounting rules makes the difference between an Enron fiasco and a business success. If you work in Management Consulting and do not have an accounting background you will either need to go back to school or change roles eventually. It would be like trying to practice law without going to law school.

Accounting is most likely under School or College of Business.
You are confused.

No YOU are confused. The PP is saying that it is strange that DCUM is so hot on Management Consulting but doesnt like a School of Business degree because Accounting is in the School of Business and those skills are a key advantage in Management Consulting. I worked in Management Consulting and was not an Accountant but an Econ major from a top 15 school and I was at a serious disadvantage to my peers who had a CPA. I eventually had to shell out the $ for MBA (partially employer funded) but I wouldnt have needed that if I had just done Accounting from the beginning. And to the PP who says you can take a 3 month training class at Bain- not really. That is not going to tell you how to value things like Brand names/Goodwill and run proformas when evaluating sell-offs or mergers which is what I worked on in Mgmt Counsulting. There are technical skills that a Philsophy major from a top school is not going to have and the new hire training is not enough. I would much prefer to hire someone who 1) doesnt need to be taught accounting/finance and 2) doesnt come with an Ivy price tag.

It obviously didn't prevent you and I would imagine many others without business degrees from getting the job. Very few people make a career at a Bain or McKinsey...they either use it as a launchpad for graduate school or move in-house to a client.

I guess I am trying to understand how it held you back because you actually worked in an area that you claim needs an Accounting degree...yet you didn't have an accounting degree.

Opportunity cost of time and $ on MBA as well as having the right skills at the right time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Think about the jobs here: law, government, international relations, journalism, economics, tech — not a business major to be found. Maybe NYers are more likely to push their kids into finance.

So you think that all of the law firms, government agencies, think tanks and tech companies don't have to provide financial outlooks to either shareholders or a board? Every organization in DC has some sort of finance or Accounting department and they all make decent $.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many are highly educated and well-bred and don’t view college as a trade school.

+2 It is an immigrant thing to hyperfocus on ROI and STEM.

No it's a common sense thing
Most people want something useful and valuable when paying $$$

True. My 20 year old son already sees this. He is majoring in accounting ; he wants a comfortable life where he isn’t struggling financially. He has many interests and activities outside of the classroom and the topics that interest him , he reads online. Sometimes you can’t take all the interesting electives in college. You can still be well rounded even when being practical.

Accounting is the backbone for any entity- for or nonprofit. From there you can combine with other interests. No entity can exist long without proper financial and cash flow planning. This is not a degree for dummies. Successful accountants can become. cfos and even ceos without even getting an mba. And if you have strong people skills even better. also your job will always exist. strong accountants and fpa roles are actually needed more during a recession. PPs who claim this is a major for dummies and compare it to a trade don't have a clue. It is also gives you very helpful skills for your personal life.

+1 i dont understand why DCUM is so big on Management Consulting but then dont like the Business Degree. Management Consulting strategy is 100% based on understanding the levers that you can pull that impact your P&L and cashflow, debt etc in order to make your business more appealing to shareholders. The strongest Mgmt consultants know their accounting and financial statements inside out. Understanding the accounting rules makes the difference between an Enron fiasco and a business success. If you work in Management Consulting and do not have an accounting background you will either need to go back to school or change roles eventually. It would be like trying to practice law without going to law school.

Accounting is most likely under School or College of Business.
You are confused.

No YOU are confused. The PP is saying that it is strange that DCUM is so hot on Management Consulting but doesnt like a School of Business degree because Accounting is in the School of Business and those skills are a key advantage in Management Consulting. I worked in Management Consulting and was not an Accountant but an Econ major from a top 15 school and I was at a serious disadvantage to my peers who had a CPA. I eventually had to shell out the $ for MBA (partially employer funded) but I wouldnt have needed that if I had just done Accounting from the beginning. And to the PP who says you can take a 3 month training class at Bain- not really. That is not going to tell you how to value things like Brand names/Goodwill and run proformas when evaluating sell-offs or mergers which is what I worked on in Mgmt Counsulting. There are technical skills that a Philsophy major from a top school is not going to have and the new hire training is not enough. I would much prefer to hire someone who 1) doesnt need to be taught accounting/finance and 2) doesnt come with an Ivy price tag.

It obviously didn't prevent you and I would imagine many others without business degrees from getting the job. Very few people make a career at a Bain or McKinsey...they either use it as a launchpad for graduate school or move in-house to a client.

I guess I am trying to understand how it held you back because you actually worked in an area that you claim needs an Accounting degree...yet you didn't have an accounting degree.

NP but I also dont understand why so many DCUM folks think Accounting is "beneath" their offspring but then think Management Consulting is the sh*T. I think it comes down to one sounding more prestigious just like most of the stuff on this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
NP but I also dont understand why so many DCUM folks think Accounting is "beneath" their offspring but then think Management Consulting is the sh*T. I think it comes down to one sounding more prestigious just like most of the stuff on this board.

Many people in the society are not interesting in doing the work, but rather enjoy the fruits of other people's labor. Capitalism is driven by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Business is a safe major and pretty much guarantees a well paid job after college and lucrative career options afterwards.

No it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

You really think the average marketing major from Podunk State has better earning potential than a philosophy major from Princeton?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You really think the average marketing major from Podunk State has better earning potential than a philosophy major from Princeton?

No, but say NYU, BC, Georgetown, etc. finance crushes Princeton philosophy