Why apply to an Oberlin/Kenyon/Grinnell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:when there are similar schools on the East Coast? Not trying to be snarky; genuinely wondering what these schools have that a Bates/Bowdoin/Colby/Hamilton does not.

They are all safer than Bates.

They are all easier admits than Bowdoin.

They all offer merit scholarships that are not offered at Hamilton.

Better weather.

Better environments for ultra liberals and LGBTQ+.

They are safer than NE SLACs only because of their location. If Oberlin/Kenyon/Grinnell could pick up and move to NE, their competitors would be Harvard/Yale/Princeton. Alternatively, if Harvard/Yale/Princeton could pick up and move to Ohio or Iowa, they wouldn't be what they are.

Maybe a bit of an overstatement but the key point is the inconvenient location relative to the vast majority of potential customers is the reason admission is not as hyper-competitive versus some New England peers. Imagine two restaurants of identical quality, but one is 20 minutes outside the city. The one that is outside the city will be much easier to get a table at. Doesn't mean it's worse. It could even be better. Because there is such a supply/demand imbalance for the New England LACs, they have to reject, more or less arbitrarily, tons of highly qualified applicants, just for lack of space. So the reality is the fact that their acceptance rates are much lower doesn't translate into a significantly higher quality student body, versus other LACs which are not quite as overwhelmed with applicants. The most reliable indicator of student quality is test score data, not acceptance rates.

While the midwestern LACs are competitively disadvantaged by their remoteness from the east coast population centers, this is somewhat offset by their proximity to the midwestern population centers as well as their use of merit aid to lure top east coast students westward. It's also a marginally shorter and maybe more convenient flight from the west coast. For example, it can be quite difficult to get to Maine from California. So these schools end up attracting a surprisingly large number of kids from the west coast, which doesn't have enough good LACs to satisfy demand.

True. Chicago is a huge population center, and Omaha, the Twin Cities, Detroit, Kansas City, Cleveland, etc. are also sizable. And as you say, a lot of wealthy kids from the West Coast, Hawaii, and the Mountain West end up at Midwestern schools. DC met several kids from LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, and Hawaii at Grinnell. On my last trip to Hawaii, some of the locals I spoke to were planning to send their kids to "excellent liberal arts colleges" in the Midwest. I asked how their kids would feel about exchanging Hawaii's climate for that of the Midwest, and they said their kids wanted a complete change of scenery and a new experience and felt they could get a more comprehensive education "off island." One of DC's friends is back in Hawaii, surfing and swimming, but says he wouldn't change his Midwest experience for anything.

California is the third largest state for Kenyon students, behind NY and Ohio. I think around 10% of the student body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:when there are similar schools on the East Coast? Not trying to be snarky; genuinely wondering what these schools have that a Bates/Bowdoin/Colby/Hamilton does not.

They are all safer than Bates.

They are all easier admits than Bowdoin.

They all offer merit scholarships that are not offered at Hamilton.

Better weather.

Better environments for ultra liberals and LGBTQ+.

They are safer than NE SLACs only because of their location. If Oberlin/Kenyon/Grinnell could pick up and move to NE, their competitors would be Harvard/Yale/Princeton. Alternatively, if Harvard/Yale/Princeton could pick up and move to Ohio or Iowa, they wouldn't be what they are.

Maybe a bit of an overstatement but the key point is the inconvenient location relative to the vast majority of potential customers is the reason admission is not as hyper-competitive versus some New England peers. Imagine two restaurants of identical quality, but one is 20 minutes outside the city. The one that is outside the city will be much easier to get a table at. Doesn't mean it's worse. It could even be better. Because there is such a supply/demand imbalance for the New England LACs, they have to reject, more or less arbitrarily, tons of highly qualified applicants, just for lack of space. So the reality is the fact that their acceptance rates are much lower doesn't translate into a significantly higher quality student body, versus other LACs which are not quite as overwhelmed with applicants. The most reliable indicator of student quality is test score data, not acceptance rates.

While the midwestern LACs are competitively disadvantaged by their remoteness from the east coast population centers, this is somewhat offset by their proximity to the midwestern population centers as well as their use of merit aid to lure top east coast students westward. It's also a marginally shorter and maybe more convenient flight from the west coast. For example, it can be quite difficult to get to Maine from California. So these schools end up attracting a surprisingly large number of kids from the west coast, which doesn't have enough good LACs to satisfy demand.

True. Chicago is a huge population center, and Omaha, the Twin Cities, Detroit, Kansas City, Cleveland, etc. are also sizable. And as you say, a lot of wealthy kids from the West Coast, Hawaii, and the Mountain West end up at Midwestern schools. DC met several kids from LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, and Hawaii at Grinnell. On my last trip to Hawaii, some of the locals I spoke to were planning to send their kids to "excellent liberal arts colleges" in the Midwest. I asked how their kids would feel about exchanging Hawaii's climate for that of the Midwest, and they said their kids wanted a complete change of scenery and a new experience and felt they could get a more comprehensive education "off island." One of DC's friends is back in Hawaii, surfing and swimming, but says he wouldn't change his Midwest experience for anything.

Had not realized until earlier this year about the high number of Hawai'ian students at Grinnell - my DC has a few friends, I met parents of a few athletes, and attended a parent session where I met a few more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:when there are similar schools on the East Coast? Not trying to be snarky; genuinely wondering what these schools have that a Bates/Bowdoin/Colby/Hamilton does not.

They are all safer than Bates.

They are all easier admits than Bowdoin.

They all offer merit scholarships that are not offered at Hamilton.

Better weather.

Better environments for ultra liberals and LGBTQ+.

They are safer than NE SLACs only because of their location. If Oberlin/Kenyon/Grinnell could pick up and move to NE, their competitors would be Harvard/Yale/Princeton. Alternatively, if Harvard/Yale/Princeton could pick up and move to Ohio or Iowa, they wouldn't be what they are.

Maybe a bit of an overstatement but the key point is the inconvenient location relative to the vast majority of potential customers is the reason admission is not as hyper-competitive versus some New England peers. Imagine two restaurants of identical quality, but one is 20 minutes outside the city. The one that is outside the city will be much easier to get a table at. Doesn't mean it's worse. It could even be better. Because there is such a supply/demand imbalance for the New England LACs, they have to reject, more or less arbitrarily, tons of highly qualified applicants, just for lack of space. So the reality is the fact that their acceptance rates are much lower doesn't translate into a significantly higher quality student body, versus other LACs which are not quite as overwhelmed with applicants. The most reliable indicator of student quality is test score data, not acceptance rates.

While the midwestern LACs are competitively disadvantaged by their remoteness from the east coast population centers, this is somewhat offset by their proximity to the midwestern population centers as well as their use of merit aid to lure top east coast students westward. It's also a marginally shorter and maybe more convenient flight from the west coast. For example, it can be quite difficult to get to Maine from California. So these schools end up attracting a surprisingly large number of kids from the west coast, which doesn't have enough good LACs to satisfy demand.

True. Chicago is a huge population center, and Omaha, the Twin Cities, Detroit, Kansas City, Cleveland, etc. are also sizable. And as you say, a lot of wealthy kids from the West Coast, Hawaii, and the Mountain West end up at Midwestern schools. DC met several kids from LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, and Hawaii at Grinnell. On my last trip to Hawaii, some of the locals I spoke to were planning to send their kids to "excellent liberal arts colleges" in the Midwest. I asked how their kids would feel about exchanging Hawaii's climate for that of the Midwest, and they said their kids wanted a complete change of scenery and a new experience and felt they could get a more comprehensive education "off island." One of DC's friends is back in Hawaii, surfing and swimming, but says he wouldn't change his Midwest experience for anything.

California is the third largest state for Kenyon students, behind NY and Ohio. I think around 10% of the student body.

That doesn't surprise me. I worked in coastal California for a couple of years, and I loved visiting the Midwest, where there was WATER. I loved the rivers, lakes, ponds, and greenery. I even loved the rain! By comparison, California was bone-dry, dusty, and brown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:when there are similar schools on the East Coast? Not trying to be snarky; genuinely wondering what these schools have that a Bates/Bowdoin/Colby/Hamilton does not.

They are all safer than Bates.

They are all easier admits than Bowdoin.

They all offer merit scholarships that are not offered at Hamilton.

Better weather.

Better environments for ultra liberals and LGBTQ+.

They are safer than NE SLACs only because of their location. If Oberlin/Kenyon/Grinnell could pick up and move to NE, their competitors would be Harvard/Yale/Princeton. Alternatively, if Harvard/Yale/Princeton could pick up and move to Ohio or Iowa, they wouldn't be what they are.

Maybe a bit of an overstatement but the key point is the inconvenient location relative to the vast majority of potential customers is the reason admission is not as hyper-competitive versus some New England peers. Imagine two restaurants of identical quality, but one is 20 minutes outside the city. The one that is outside the city will be much easier to get a table at. Doesn't mean it's worse. It could even be better. Because there is such a supply/demand imbalance for the New England LACs, they have to reject, more or less arbitrarily, tons of highly qualified applicants, just for lack of space. So the reality is the fact that their acceptance rates are much lower doesn't translate into a significantly higher quality student body, versus other LACs which are not quite as overwhelmed with applicants. The most reliable indicator of student quality is test score data, not acceptance rates.

While the midwestern LACs are competitively disadvantaged by their remoteness from the east coast population centers, this is somewhat offset by their proximity to the midwestern population centers as well as their use of merit aid to lure top east coast students westward. It's also a marginally shorter and maybe more convenient flight from the west coast. For example, it can be quite difficult to get to Maine from California. So these schools end up attracting a surprisingly large number of kids from the west coast, which doesn't have enough good LACs to satisfy demand.

True. Chicago is a huge population center, and Omaha, the Twin Cities, Detroit, Kansas City, Cleveland, etc. are also sizable. And as you say, a lot of wealthy kids from the West Coast, Hawaii, and the Mountain West end up at Midwestern schools. DC met several kids from LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, and Hawaii at Grinnell. On my last trip to Hawaii, some of the locals I spoke to were planning to send their kids to "excellent liberal arts colleges" in the Midwest. I asked how their kids would feel about exchanging Hawaii's climate for that of the Midwest, and they said their kids wanted a complete change of scenery and a new experience and felt they could get a more comprehensive education "off island." One of DC's friends is back in Hawaii, surfing and swimming, but says he wouldn't change his Midwest experience for anything.

Had not realized until earlier this year about the high number of Hawai'ian students at Grinnell - my DC has a few friends, I met parents of a few athletes, and attended a parent session where I met a few more.

I think Punahou (Obama's old school) funnels students to Grinnell. My DC says the Hawaii kids thought cold and snow were really cool. The selection of colleges and universities in Hawaii is rather limited, so I'm not surprised they sometimes look further afield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:when there are similar schools on the East Coast? Not trying to be snarky; genuinely wondering what these schools have that a Bates/Bowdoin/Colby/Hamilton does not.

They are all safer than Bates.

They are all easier admits than Bowdoin.

They all offer merit scholarships that are not offered at Hamilton.

Better weather.

Better environments for ultra liberals and LGBTQ+.

They are safer than NE SLACs only because of their location. If Oberlin/Kenyon/Grinnell could pick up and move to NE, their competitors would be Harvard/Yale/Princeton. Alternatively, if Harvard/Yale/Princeton could pick up and move to Ohio or Iowa, they wouldn't be what they are.

Maybe a bit of an overstatement but the key point is the inconvenient location relative to the vast majority of potential customers is the reason admission is not as hyper-competitive versus some New England peers. Imagine two restaurants of identical quality, but one is 20 minutes outside the city. The one that is outside the city will be much easier to get a table at. Doesn't mean it's worse. It could even be better. Because there is such a supply/demand imbalance for the New England LACs, they have to reject, more or less arbitrarily, tons of highly qualified applicants, just for lack of space. So the reality is the fact that their acceptance rates are much lower doesn't translate into a significantly higher quality student body, versus other LACs which are not quite as overwhelmed with applicants. The most reliable indicator of student quality is test score data, not acceptance rates.

While the midwestern LACs are competitively disadvantaged by their remoteness from the east coast population centers, this is somewhat offset by their proximity to the midwestern population centers as well as their use of merit aid to lure top east coast students westward. It's also a marginally shorter and maybe more convenient flight from the west coast. For example, it can be quite difficult to get to Maine from California. So these schools end up attracting a surprisingly large number of kids from the west coast, which doesn't have enough good LACs to satisfy demand.

True. Chicago is a huge population center, and Omaha, the Twin Cities, Detroit, Kansas City, Cleveland, etc. are also sizable. And as you say, a lot of wealthy kids from the West Coast, Hawaii, and the Mountain West end up at Midwestern schools. DC met several kids from LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, and Hawaii at Grinnell. On my last trip to Hawaii, some of the locals I spoke to were planning to send their kids to "excellent liberal arts colleges" in the Midwest. I asked how their kids would feel about exchanging Hawaii's climate for that of the Midwest, and they said their kids wanted a complete change of scenery and a new experience and felt they could get a more comprehensive education "off island." One of DC's friends is back in Hawaii, surfing and swimming, but says he wouldn't change his Midwest experience for anything.

Had not realized until earlier this year about the high number of Hawai'ian students at Grinnell - my DC has a few friends, I met parents of a few athletes, and attended a parent session where I met a few more.

I'm not sure anything could induce me to leave Hawaii for the Midwest, but I guess young people like to experience new and different environments. And then, of course, the mainland schools are generally better than Hawaii schools.

[Anonymous]

Grinnell is great - a bit too woke and wacky but it’s massively underrated

Oberlin/kenyon/denison are really hampered by Ohio — Ohio is truly dire whereas the middle of Iowa can be pretty in a little house on prairie way (golden hour Iowa skies are gorgeous)

If the Ohio schools were in traverse city or Madison or Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho , they would be ranked higher.

Ohio is not just “in the Midwest”

It’s one of the most run down and depressing states even compared to non-coastal states

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell is great - a bit too woke and wacky but it’s massively underrated

Oberlin/kenyon/denison are really hampered by Ohio — Ohio is truly dire whereas the middle of Iowa can be pretty in a little house on prairie way (golden hour Iowa skies are gorgeous)

If the Ohio schools were in traverse city or Madison or Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho , they would be ranked higher.

Ohio is not just “in the Midwest”

It’s one of the most run down and depressing states even compared to non-coastal states

Hmmm. I can take Ohio or leave it. But, Cleveland and Columbus were both surprisingly revitalized and nice when we visited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell is great - a bit too woke and wacky but it’s massively underrated

Oberlin/kenyon/denison are really hampered by Ohio — Ohio is truly dire whereas the middle of Iowa can be pretty in a little house on prairie way (golden hour Iowa skies are gorgeous)

If the Ohio schools were in traverse city or Madison or Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho , they would be ranked higher.

Ohio is not just “in the Midwest”

It’s one of the most run down and depressing states even compared to non-coastal states

Hmmm. I can take Ohio or leave it. But, Cleveland and Columbus were both surprisingly revitalized and nice when we visited.

Very odd take on Ohio, especially Columbus. This write/up has been going around…

WHY COLUMBUS IS THE NEXT AUSTIN:
GOOGLE: In 2019, Google broke ground on a $600M Data Center in Columbus. Now in 2023, Google just announced 2 new data centers in Central Ohio which will bring it’s total investment to more than $2B [1]

AMAZON: In January of 2023, Amazon Data Services bought 400 acres of land in Columbus [2] Last month, Amazon announced on their site that their total investment will be north of $7.8B [3]

INTEL: Intel announced its $20B Semiconductor mega plant in New Albany (northern Columbus) which makes it the largest private-sector investment in Ohio history. [4] “At full buildout, the total investment could grow to as much as $100B over the next decade making it one of the largest semiconductor manufacturing sites in the world.”

OTHER NOTABLE INVESTMENTS: Meta announced its adding 1 million sq ft to its data center in New Albany which will bring its total investment to $1.5B.[5] JP Morgan Chase (the largest bank in the U.S) has cemented it’s largest office worldwide in Central Ohio [6] DBT Data is building 1 million square feet worth of data center facilities in New Albany. [7]

Even with all these investments - Why would people move to Columbus?
TRAVEL: John Glenn International Airport (CMH) offers nonstop flights to 50 destinations [8] 
LOCATION: Columbus is within a 6 hour drive of Toronto, Niagara Falls, Washington DC, Asheville NC, Nashville, Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and Detroit [9]

LOW COST OF LIVING: Columbus' cost of living is 89 where the national average is 100. Compared to Austin, TX is 102 and Chicago is 122. [10]
The average home value in Columbus is $244,756 [11] where as Austin, TX is $567,718 [12]

OTHER NOTABLE REASONS TO LIVE IN OHIO: THE Ohio State University is ranked 15th in the nation for MBA programs, 28th in Best Medical School in the nation [13] Nationwide Children’s Hospital has been ranked top 10 best hospital for the past decade [14] 8 Professional Sports Teams [15]

FINAL THOUGHTS: I may be biased, but I’m extremely bullish on Columbus. So what can we do to benefit from the upcoming boom?

If I already owned a piece of Real Estate in Columbus, I’d do everything in my power to keep it for 10+ years. If I plan on moving in the future - I’d turn it into a rental. (I can provide resources to help transition a primary home into a rental since I’ve done it myself)

If I don’t own a piece of Real Estate in Columbus, I’m doing everything in my power to buy a piece (or multiple pieces) of it and hold it for 10+ years. If you think prices are high right now, there will literally be THOUSANDS of tech salaries moving into the area in the next 5-10 years.

These massive data companies are infinitely smarter than you or me. If they’re willing to make a bet on Columbus, so am I.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell is great - a bit too woke and wacky but it’s massively underrated

Oberlin/kenyon/denison are really hampered by Ohio — Ohio is truly dire whereas the middle of Iowa can be pretty in a little house on prairie way (golden hour Iowa skies are gorgeous)

If the Ohio schools were in traverse city or Madison or Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho , they would be ranked higher.

Ohio is not just “in the Midwest”

It’s one of the most run down and depressing states even compared to non-coastal states

Hmmm. I can take Ohio or leave it. But, Cleveland and Columbus were both surprisingly revitalized and nice when we visited.

I think the Grinnell Booster got their nose bent out of joint about Grinnell being super white. Although attacking the entire state of Ohio is ?? odd. Ohio’s got the same type of red state politics as, well, Iowa. Maybe a bit better since Amendments 1&2 passed on abortion and pot. But, Ohio is de-rust belting nicely. Oberlin is 20-30 minutes from Cleveland, which has Case Western, the Cleveland Clinic, decent art and natural history museums, a good orchestra, little Italy… That plus Columbus, with THE Ohio State, are nice areas. (So it Pittsburgh. All three cities surprised me when we visited. In a good way). Not where I would choose to spend January— the lake effect means business. But, I didn’t visit these areas and immediately have the urge to start reciting The Wasteland, as the Grinnell Booster suggests.

Grinnell is definitely off by itself, geographically. So, I don’t tend to think of it as being in a trio with Kenyon and Oberlin. Iowa is really far away. I tend to place Oberlin & Kenyon with the PA schools and/or Denison and Wooster. Wouldn’t Grinnell be a better fit with the Wisconsin schools, like Lawrence and Beloit, and the Minnesota schools (Macalaster, St.Olaf and Carleton)? I think all those schools except Carleton do merit.

As for visiting, Grinnell is a stand alone trip.

[Anonymous]

Look, the bottom line is this: Grinnell is much more highly ranked than any of the Ohio schools - it’s just outside the top 10, whereas none of the Ohio schools is even in the top 30. Grinnell also has a much lower acceptance rate and yield. Kenyon in particular is nobody’s first choice.

So I agree that you shouldn’t really consider them as peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell is great - a bit too woke and wacky but it’s massively underrated

Oberlin/kenyon/denison are really hampered by Ohio — Ohio is truly dire whereas the middle of Iowa can be pretty in a little house on prairie way (golden hour Iowa skies are gorgeous)

If the Ohio schools were in traverse city or Madison or Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho , they would be ranked higher.

Ohio is not just “in the Midwest”

It’s one of the most run down and depressing states even compared to non-coastal states

Hmmm. I can take Ohio or leave it. But, Cleveland and Columbus were both surprisingly revitalized and nice when we visited.

Ohio might not be one's first choice of state, but Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison, and Wooster are in beautiful locations. They are little oases. Kenyon and Denison have really gorgeous campuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell is great - a bit too woke and wacky but it’s massively underrated

Oberlin/kenyon/denison are really hampered by Ohio — Ohio is truly dire whereas the middle of Iowa can be pretty in a little house on prairie way (golden hour Iowa skies are gorgeous)

If the Ohio schools were in traverse city or Madison or Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho , they would be ranked higher.

Ohio is not just “in the Midwest”

It’s one of the most run down and depressing states even compared to non-coastal states

Hmmm. I can take Ohio or leave it. But, Cleveland and Columbus were both surprisingly revitalized and nice when we visited.

Super weird take on Ohio. It has hundreds of miles of lakefront, the Appalachian foothills, beautiful flat dreamy farmland sunsets in the west, dramatic ravines and hills in the NE, and major areas and education institutions. But ok, the entire thing is run down and depressing? And more depressing than all of Idaho or Wyoming?!

I’ve spent a lot of time around Cheyenne and some truly yuck and frankly scary parts of Idaho and the only place in Ohio that I’d trade for those areas is maybe Findlay.

[Anonymous]

Not much difference between Ohio and Iowa from my DMV perspective. 😃

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, the bottom line is this: Grinnell is much more highly ranked than any of the Ohio schools - it’s just outside the top 10, whereas none of the Ohio schools is even in the top 30. Grinnell also has a much lower acceptance rate and yield. Kenyon in particular is nobody’s first choice.

So I agree that you shouldn’t really consider them as peers.

Hmm. I just checked the most recent CDS of both Grinnell and Kenyon. Coincidentally, they both have the exact same percentage of students reporting SAT and ACT scores (28% and 27%). The median ACT score for both schools is 33. The median SAT is 1460 for Grinnell and 1440 for Kenyon. If we can use test scores as a reasonable proxy for academic caliber of the students, it's pretty damn close to a tie. Certainly, they seem to be "peers."

US News definitely ranks Grinnell higher. The endowment is huge, and this enables Grinnell to compete better on the metrics US News favors, which largely revolve around financial aid, Pell grants, etc. Grinnell has more resources and therefore does a better job bringing in low income and diverse students, as well as with merit aid. The stronger financial aid and need blind policy leads to more applications and lower acceptance rates, although this doesn't seem to translate into materially higher average test scores.

Grinnell has much more money and throws it around to attract students, but any rational person looking at these two schools would see them as peers with a lot of similarities. In terms of academic reputation, faculty, etc., Grinnell probably has the edge with hard sciences but not elsewhere. Grinnell also seems to suffer from a Swarthmore-like reputation of being a dull grind school. Kenyon's campus life seems more vibrant, and one basically only hears positive things.

I understand the Grinnellian impulse to separate from the midwest "loser" table in the cafeteria and hang out with the cool rich kids from New England. But you will still always be that awkward Iowa farm boy, who happened to have a rich uncle.

Rather than tear each other down, midwestern SLACs should appreciate one another. It's a pretty special collection of colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell is great - a bit too woke and wacky but it’s massively underrated

Oberlin/kenyon/denison are really hampered by Ohio — Ohio is truly dire whereas the middle of Iowa can be pretty in a little house on prairie way (golden hour Iowa skies are gorgeous)

If the Ohio schools were in traverse city or Madison or Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho , they would be ranked higher.

Ohio is not just “in the Midwest”

It’s one of the most run down and depressing states even compared to non-coastal states

I grew up in NW PA and went to Pitt. I know run-down and depressed towns.

We wide the OH college tour last year. We were all pleasantly surprised. I was expecting our travels around OH to be similar to our travels around rural parts of PA- rundown and depressing. Columbus and the surrounding areas were anything but run down and depressing. I found the areas on the way to Kenyon and surrounding Kenyon to be much prettier than rural parts of PA.
Cleveland was also nicer than I thought. I’m a big Pittsburgh booster (seriously, if you haven’t visited, just go) and always enjoy the vibrancy of Oakland and Pitts campus, but the Case neighborhood was just as vibrant and dare I say I found it nicer.

Don’t dismiss OH. You may be pleasantly surprised.