Anyone else educated by FCPS and sees the decline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The downfall is the focus on equity instead of academic excellence. FcpS will fund the undesirable schools lucratively but choke off the better schools. it's a form of reverse bussing.

Please point out specifically how schools like Annandale, Mount Vernon, and Lewis are being funded lucratively. Each of these schools has a high-SES neighbor pyramid that has received far more lucrative facilities. West Springfield, Woodson, and West Potomac. Just stop with the nonsense that poor schools are being treated better because of equity. Sure, Falls Church HS and Justice HS are coincidentally getting renovations. That doesn't mean all poorer schools get the luxury treatment.
.

DP. You do know there are separate operating and capital budgets, right?

When you look at the operating budgets, it’s clear the poorer schools get considerably more funding per student.

When you look at the capital budgets, which is what you’re referring to, it’s more of a mixed picture, although a poorer school (Falls Church) is getting one of the most expensive renovations on record and they chose to favor Justice HS with an addition outside the renovation cycle when other wealthier schools were more overcrowded and deserving. However, most of the capital expenditures are tied to when schools were originally built and changing approaches to renovations. So you also have wealthy schools like Langley and Oakton that got much nicer renovations than older schools like Annandale and Lewis.

Either way, the current leadership of FCPS is at best indifferent and at worst hostile to higher-performing students and wealthier communities. And then they act surprised when people with other options leave and FCPS get poorer and lower-achieving every year.

[Anonymous]

^adding one of the most important reasons for the decline, which is across all schools, social media/screen time.

Kids is ES....the most formative years in education...no longer have the attention span for anything, some no longer even know how to hold a pencil. No motor skills. No critical thinking skills.

It's actually quite sad when a 3rd grader can put together a PowerPoint but can't read an entire book or write complete sentences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The quality of the education I received 25 years ago was far superior to what is being offered now. Anyone else notice this?

Yes. Part of it is that FCPS is too large a system. Lately, APS seems to be doing a better job, while ACPS continues to be the worst in NoVA.

[Anonymous]

We moved to Prince William County from high-ranking schools in FCPS and I'm actually incredibly impressed. The teachers communicate a lot more, send home study packets on paper that have useful information, don't assume that every kid who matters is tutored outside class - even the parentvue and canvas - god awful systems - seem easier to navigate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are both FCPS graduates from the mid 1980s.

Parents of FCPS students from 2005-present.

DH was one of the early GT program participants, as was one of my siblings. GT program was initially a pull out enrichment and quasi socialization opportunity for the then often socially maligned bright students to form friendships and be challenged academically - together. GT teachers enjoyed their relatively small group of 5th-6th grade students. GT students met for a class period to work on enrichment projects and accept challenging homework projects.

FCPS thought was that these highly intelligent students would be so utterly bored in upper ES that they’d begin to act out and completely lose interest and pursue a life of delinquency or just about as terrible, not attend college.

Overlay all with a steep population decline particularly in older suburbs, leading to formerly “neighborhood” ES (all walked) and suddenly FCPS had to confront closing schools.

Some did close or get converted to admin or municipal offices.

But circa late 1980s, there was a wave of boundary changes and every ES formerly on chopping block needed a “hook” to boost population and keep the infrastructure viable. Examples include GT/AAP Centers (and levels), TJHSST, Head Start, academies, language immersion, AP v. IB.

I’ve been called overly dramatic when I’ve PP on similar threads, but clearly FCPS newest initiative to view schools through an equity lens means that academic excellence is no longer important; becoming world citizens or other such blather is emphasized. Read a few principal-written mission statements on the official school websites and tell me I’m wrong.

This is what gifted was for me too - in Florida in the 90s. I don't remember ever getting any sort of advanced coursework in regular classes but once a week, every week, we'd go to the gifted room and do brain teasers, enrichment projects, Odyssey of the Mind, etc. It's actually interesting that they've shifted from that to providing advanced work in actual core subjects - I don't know which is "better" - but is there a reason so many school districts shifted away from this model?

All kids benefit from a small class session if brain teaser, enrichment, and Odyssey of the Mind, so savvy parents tried to get their non-gifted kids in.

The once a week pull-out programs do not meet the needs of advanced learners. They are just a nice "add-on" to all education.

You are kidding yourself if you think all the kids selected for AAP are advanced learners. If they all are so advanced, none should get below a 500 on an SOL and if they do, they should be removed from AAP the following year.

My friend's daughter got in because her mom stood over her telling her what to do - and then submitted it as if she had spontaneously written this essay and drawn this picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the older generations are always doom and gloom about school. My dad is livid that kids aren't learning cursive anymore. I couldn't be happier that it's gone.

I understand the suspicion of quality of snippets, materials cobbled together from online sources, etc., but the reality is that with electronic media there is often no reason to have a textbook. As a college professor, I have moved in the last 15 years from relying primarily on a very popular textbook to teaching my class without a textbook. I've read all 8 or so well-known textbooks in the field and I feel that, through powerpoints and assigned brief readings, I am able to outperform any textbook on the topic (students seem to agree). There is no benefit to reading a 50 page chapter in a bloated book that gets key principles incorrect or has not been updated to reflect changing theories or evidence.

I'd also point out that, in response to someone's comment about reading an abridged version of the Odyssey, this happened at both a public AND private school that I attended in the 90s, so this is not new unless you classify the mid-90s as "new."

Finally, while I have been skeptical of the changes to learning, I don't observe that my oldest son is behind where I and my peers were (in an advanced program) in terms of reading, writing, and math. It seems that students can learn to spell and write without memorizing vocabulary/spelling lists for hours every month. I say this is a wonderful development.

I am not sure what field you are in, but as a Humanities professor, I can say that a shocking number of students these days are extremely weak writers. The lack of explicitly grammar and writing instruction has had a profound effect. Yes, some kids can learn to spell simply by reading but many cannot. And I would argue that most kids cannot earn to write well without being taught. Writing instruction should be organized and systematic and start at the elementary level. I personally don't care about cursive or even much about neatness but teaching grammar, vocabulary, how to construct a sentence, then a paragraph-these are very basic building blocks. Putting a blank paper in front of a third grader, handing him a rubric, and saying it's poetry week is not teaching writing!

I can believe that you may be able to outperform all of the available textbooks, but can all the teachers?? Of course, not. Also, there used to be a value to having a text to go back to and reread, even if it was just s to have all the formulas in one place, all the dates easily accessible, all the verb forms and tenses well-organized. I don't know how kids study these days.

I wasn't educated in FCPS-I went to a private school in Massachusetts. But the education I received was immeasurably superior. The demands were greater, the expectations higher. To give a silly example, my highschooler in honors history has taken only multiple choice tests this year. What a waste of an opportunity to teach a kid to think and write critically, in addition to learn the material. Of course it's a lot easier to correct multiple choice and if you have 30 plus kids in every class, you do what you can to survive.

The biggest failing in FCPS (I can't compare to elsewhere). The writing (and reading, frankly) instructions is really bad. I've worked to fill in some of the gaps but it is still a failing. One big reason is that the teachers do not give writing feedback. They give a grade, they hand over a rubric, and expect kids to know what they did wrong. There's no written feedback, no redlining. As someone who did, and does, a lot of writing in school and in my profession, that sort of feedback is critical. It is the single best way to learn to write well. And it's not being done. (Read through other posts and teachers acknowledge this).

I'm sorry, it's shamefully unacceptable. This is a fundamental skill that kids are not being properly taught.

This has just happened to my DS. He's had his first ever English writing assignment in his 9th grade honors class at Langley. His essay was not corrected, and he's not sure how he could have improved his grade (B+). The teacher told the class that last year's class had written four essays by this point, so I assume that the curriculum has changed.

I guess the issue is inconsistency. My kid is at Kilmer MS (AAP) and her English teacher most definitely corrects her essays.

Teacher here. Yes, it’s inconsistency.

I just spent about 12 hours this weekend leaving comments on my students’ essays. I work with somebody who puts circles on a rubric. She probably got to see her family this weekend.

The only way you’ll get consistency in grading is if the county gives teachers time during the day to grade. If not, you’re left hoping your child gets the martyr teacher who puts work before everything else.

(And I wish I wasn’t that teacher.)

[Anonymous]

I think there are some great teachers in FCPS but the senior leadership and School Board are just garbage that get in the way of everyone and everything else. Even when you just want to be left alone they meddle in counterproductive ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the older generations are always doom and gloom about school. My dad is livid that kids aren't learning cursive anymore. I couldn't be happier that it's gone.

I understand the suspicion of quality of snippets, materials cobbled together from online sources, etc., but the reality is that with electronic media there is often no reason to have a textbook. As a college professor, I have moved in the last 15 years from relying primarily on a very popular textbook to teaching my class without a textbook. I've read all 8 or so well-known textbooks in the field and I feel that, through powerpoints and assigned brief readings, I am able to outperform any textbook on the topic (students seem to agree). There is no benefit to reading a 50 page chapter in a bloated book that gets key principles incorrect or has not been updated to reflect changing theories or evidence.

I'd also point out that, in response to someone's comment about reading an abridged version of the Odyssey, this happened at both a public AND private school that I attended in the 90s, so this is not new unless you classify the mid-90s as "new."

Finally, while I have been skeptical of the changes to learning, I don't observe that my oldest son is behind where I and my peers were (in an advanced program) in terms of reading, writing, and math. It seems that students can learn to spell and write without memorizing vocabulary/spelling lists for hours every month. I say this is a wonderful development.

I am not sure what field you are in, but as a Humanities professor, I can say that a shocking number of students these days are extremely weak writers. The lack of explicitly grammar and writing instruction has had a profound effect. Yes, some kids can learn to spell simply by reading but many cannot. And I would argue that most kids cannot earn to write well without being taught. Writing instruction should be organized and systematic and start at the elementary level. I personally don't care about cursive or even much about neatness but teaching grammar, vocabulary, how to construct a sentence, then a paragraph-these are very basic building blocks. Putting a blank paper in front of a third grader, handing him a rubric, and saying it's poetry week is not teaching writing!

I can believe that you may be able to outperform all of the available textbooks, but can all the teachers?? Of course, not. Also, there used to be a value to having a text to go back to and reread, even if it was just s to have all the formulas in one place, all the dates easily accessible, all the verb forms and tenses well-organized. I don't know how kids study these days.

I wasn't educated in FCPS-I went to a private school in Massachusetts. But the education I received was immeasurably superior. The demands were greater, the expectations higher. To give a silly example, my highschooler in honors history has taken only multiple choice tests this year. What a waste of an opportunity to teach a kid to think and write critically, in addition to learn the material. Of course it's a lot easier to correct multiple choice and if you have 30 plus kids in every class, you do what you can to survive.

The biggest failing in FCPS (I can't compare to elsewhere). The writing (and reading, frankly) instructions is really bad. I've worked to fill in some of the gaps but it is still a failing. One big reason is that the teachers do not give writing feedback. They give a grade, they hand over a rubric, and expect kids to know what they did wrong. There's no written feedback, no redlining. As someone who did, and does, a lot of writing in school and in my profession, that sort of feedback is critical. It is the single best way to learn to write well. And it's not being done. (Read through other posts and teachers acknowledge this).

I'm sorry, it's shamefully unacceptable. This is a fundamental skill that kids are not being properly taught.

This has just happened to my DS. He's had his first ever English writing assignment in his 9th grade honors class at Langley. His essay was not corrected, and he's not sure how he could have improved his grade (B+). The teacher told the class that last year's class had written four essays by this point, so I assume that the curriculum has changed.

I guess the issue is inconsistency. My kid is at Kilmer MS (AAP) and her English teacher most definitely corrects her essays.

Teacher here. Yes, it’s inconsistency.

I just spent about 12 hours this weekend leaving comments on my students’ essays. I work with somebody who puts circles on a rubric. She probably got to see her family this weekend.

The only way you’ll get consistency in grading is if the county gives teachers time during the day to grade. If not, you’re left hoping your child gets the martyr teacher who puts work before everything else.

(And I wish I wasn’t that teacher.)

And the circles on the rubric teacher gets paid the same either way and will probably make it retirement and not burn out by “doing less”. I have left the profession and most of the general population would be shell shocked at how little time is available to do what is asked of us and something has to go to the wayside to fit it all in. For some teachers that is grading, for some it is doing very simplistic lessons. If your child’s teacher seems like they are going way above and beyond it’s because they are burning hours of their personal time to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the older generations are always doom and gloom about school. My dad is livid that kids aren't learning cursive anymore. I couldn't be happier that it's gone.

I understand the suspicion of quality of snippets, materials cobbled together from online sources, etc., but the reality is that with electronic media there is often no reason to have a textbook. As a college professor, I have moved in the last 15 years from relying primarily on a very popular textbook to teaching my class without a textbook. I've read all 8 or so well-known textbooks in the field and I feel that, through powerpoints and assigned brief readings, I am able to outperform any textbook on the topic (students seem to agree). There is no benefit to reading a 50 page chapter in a bloated book that gets key principles incorrect or has not been updated to reflect changing theories or evidence.

I'd also point out that, in response to someone's comment about reading an abridged version of the Odyssey, this happened at both a public AND private school that I attended in the 90s, so this is not new unless you classify the mid-90s as "new."

Finally, while I have been skeptical of the changes to learning, I don't observe that my oldest son is behind where I and my peers were (in an advanced program) in terms of reading, writing, and math. It seems that students can learn to spell and write without memorizing vocabulary/spelling lists for hours every month. I say this is a wonderful development.

I am not sure what field you are in, but as a Humanities professor, I can say that a shocking number of students these days are extremely weak writers. The lack of explicitly grammar and writing instruction has had a profound effect. Yes, some kids can learn to spell simply by reading but many cannot. And I would argue that most kids cannot earn to write well without being taught. Writing instruction should be organized and systematic and start at the elementary level. I personally don't care about cursive or even much about neatness but teaching grammar, vocabulary, how to construct a sentence, then a paragraph-these are very basic building blocks. Putting a blank paper in front of a third grader, handing him a rubric, and saying it's poetry week is not teaching writing!

I can believe that you may be able to outperform all of the available textbooks, but can all the teachers?? Of course, not. Also, there used to be a value to having a text to go back to and reread, even if it was just s to have all the formulas in one place, all the dates easily accessible, all the verb forms and tenses well-organized. I don't know how kids study these days.

I wasn't educated in FCPS-I went to a private school in Massachusetts. But the education I received was immeasurably superior. The demands were greater, the expectations higher. To give a silly example, my highschooler in honors history has taken only multiple choice tests this year. What a waste of an opportunity to teach a kid to think and write critically, in addition to learn the material. Of course it's a lot easier to correct multiple choice and if you have 30 plus kids in every class, you do what you can to survive.

The biggest failing in FCPS (I can't compare to elsewhere). The writing (and reading, frankly) instructions is really bad. I've worked to fill in some of the gaps but it is still a failing. One big reason is that the teachers do not give writing feedback. They give a grade, they hand over a rubric, and expect kids to know what they did wrong. There's no written feedback, no redlining. As someone who did, and does, a lot of writing in school and in my profession, that sort of feedback is critical. It is the single best way to learn to write well. And it's not being done. (Read through other posts and teachers acknowledge this).

I'm sorry, it's shamefully unacceptable. This is a fundamental skill that kids are not being properly taught.

This has just happened to my DS. He's had his first ever English writing assignment in his 9th grade honors class at Langley. His essay was not corrected, and he's not sure how he could have improved his grade (B+). The teacher told the class that last year's class had written four essays by this point, so I assume that the curriculum has changed.

I guess the issue is inconsistency. My kid is at Kilmer MS (AAP) and her English teacher most definitely corrects her essays.

Teacher here. Yes, it’s inconsistency.

I just spent about 12 hours this weekend leaving comments on my students’ essays. I work with somebody who puts circles on a rubric. She probably got to see her family this weekend.

The only way you’ll get consistency in grading is if the county gives teachers time during the day to grade. If not, you’re left hoping your child gets the martyr teacher who puts work before everything else.

(And I wish I wasn’t that teacher.)

And the circles on the rubric teacher gets paid the same either way and will probably make it retirement and not burn out by “doing less”. I have left the profession and most of the general population would be shell shocked at how little time is available to do what is asked of us and something has to go to the wayside to fit it all in. For some teachers that is grading, for some it is doing very simplistic lessons. If your child’s teacher seems like they are going way above and beyond it’s because they are burning hours of their personal time to do so.

Exactly. I went to high school in FCPS in the 90s. I’m now in my 21st year of teaching (in a nearby county, but I’m comfortable guessing the problems are the same).

The job is so much harder than it was when I started. Half my job is done at home now. If I want to stay afloat at all, I have to work a minimum of 6 10-hour days a week. And that’s just to keep my head above water, not to actually stay on top of my work.

More is demanded of teachers each year and we are simultaneously provided with fewer supports.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think quality has gone down, but it’s certainly not where it should be. This disfunction is being exposed and FCPS is doing nothing to correct it. We have principals in place that shouldn’t even be employed by any schools.
Ive had it. It’s going to be tight, I’m considering sending my kids to private next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think quality has gone down, but it’s certainly not where it should be. This disfunction is being exposed and FCPS is doing nothing to correct it. We have principals in place that shouldn’t even be employed by any schools.
Ive had it. It’s going to be tight, I’m considering sending my kids to private next year.

Apparently there is also a principal shortage or at least a decline in candidates. It’s another degree/certification that needs to be obtained as well as long hours and a massive legal liability. I wouldn’t touch that job with a 10 foot pole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not FCPS. Teaching has changed, the changes are nationwide.

True there are issues nationwide but FCPS has some BIG problems of it's own that have created a decline in education in this county. I believe teachers and students see it and feel it daily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No meaningful homework. Or graded homework. No novels. Test retakes. Minimum grading for breathing. No discipline allowed. LRE allowing truly troubled kids to become the other children’s responsibility vs the parents. The list goes on and on. Add in the spike of post Covid child behavioral issues. Sad.

High school teachers not teaching material and admin not caring that most students are impacted by this "approach". WE had a teacher last year that said she wasn't supposed to be teaching science and let me tell you the kids are the ones that took the hit on that-horrible year and many similar stories from our neighbors/friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One data point:

My child in Honors 9th grade English at Langley is reading an abridged version of the Odyssey. It’s about 1/3 the length of the original book and the language is simplified.

I read the full book when I was in 9th grade in FCPS and her older cousin also read the full book about 10 years ago in another FCPS high school.

Then have your child read the full book at home. Fairfax County has libraries.

I hate this response. Yes, parents should do educational things at home. But the notion that we should be making up for big gaps in what the school is doing is ridiculous.

Well, you can complain or you can actually help your child. Complaining might help kids down the road, but will do nothing for your child who is currently receiving a sub-par education.

Parents are ultimately responsible and should be aware. They should not complain, but should hire tutors and supplement outside of school.

Public schools can only provide a very basic level of education. Don’t expect more and than you won’t be disappointed.

Schools are failing kids at this point-across the levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not FCPS. Teaching has changed, the changes are nationwide.

+1

Plus VA underfunds schools.