Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I assume we do the Christian Bible too (with Apocrypha, not just Torah/Mishnah, of course). Wouldn't want to skip any books because otherwise you'd miss allusions from Ruth to Revelation as you watch NCIS.

not sure if you’re being sarcastic - but yes, some study of Biblical motifs would definitely be part of a great English curriculum. And of course this ties right into broadening the canon, since so many slavery narratives, hymns, etc, draw on Biblical motifs. It would actually be a fantastic lens to build a class around the connections between African American lit and the traditional canon.

It absolutely was one of the pieces of literature we studied at my very secular high school for this very reason. It touches on history and literature. Certainly makes reading Morrison's "Song of Solomon" a whole lot more compelling.

That's BS and just trying to inject illegal bible study in public schools in disguise. If needed, a good teacher can just point out any relevant biblical references along the way as you read Morrison. That's like saying you must first study Latin for years before you can begin learning Spanish or French.

I feel sad for you - I can tell you never had a good English class, one that teaches you to appreciate literature and approach difficult texts, whether canon or non-canon. Only someone who dislikes literature could argue so trenchantly against Shakespeare.

You're confusing different PPs. I like Shakespeare, but I'm 100% against illegal bible study in public schools under the guise of "literature".

Would you ban the Byrds as well?

To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven
A time to build up, a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones, a time to gather stones together
To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven
A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace, a time to refrain from embracing
To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven
A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this doesn’t matter to anyone, but I’m watching an episode of Law and Order SVU. The father in the midst of a crisis just told his daughter, Cordelia, that he loves her and forgives her. Absolutely a call back to King Lear, which I would never know if I hadn’t read it in high school.

You can’t appreciate more modern literature and fiction without knowing how brilliant and timeless Shakespeare was. He’s not just any old dead white guy. All schools need to teach it, ideally pairing it with more modern works.

This is absolutely relevant, and is described as cultural influence. Great literary works reference each other and the body of knowledge at the time of their creation and are later referenced by other works and so on.

It should be studied because it makes us understand better our own society and humanity.

Realistically throughout high school one can study about 15-20 works, so the question is what should those be.

Where do you come up with 15-20 works? Seems pretty arbitrary. That's like saying students can only learn 10 vocabulary words a day.

[Anonymous]

Ok, taking a look at varios teams at Deal they are reading:

6th:
Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry
Tuck Everlasting
Inside out and Back Again
Beowulf

7th:
Poetry
Boy by Roald Dahl
Warriors Don’t Cry by Melba Patillo Beals
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Choice of novels
The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm by Nancy Farmer

8th
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Raisin in the Sun
Chains
145th Street


I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare in here, but its still got Beowulf so that's something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so depressing. Saving my pennies now for private school for my kids (which will definitely not further the goal of equity that folks are striving for by eliminating Shakespeare from the curriculum).

I would take the posts here with a grain of salt. I have two kids in DCPS (1 MS and 1 HS). There are people who post factually incorrect information in this forum all the time. Classic example was the assigned reading of Beowulf and The Odyssey. These are assigned and the entire text is assigned. I would be shocked if the kids were not assigned one of the works by Shakespeare somewhere in HS but my kid is only a 9th grader so I have 3 more years to find out.

[Anonymous]

I went to a private international school overseas. Read Hamlet, Lear, Midsummer, As You Like It, Macbeth, Henry IV Part I, Richard II, and several others, in a semester course. In another semester: The Odyssey, Canterbury Tales, Inferno, Brothers K, The Stranger, The Nausea, and others. The two that have stuck with me over the decades are Lear and Inferno. I never thought my high school was that great, but now I have a much greater appreciation.

[Anonymous]

As a DCPS teacher, I knew how anemic the curriculum was and pulled my child out of Hardy. We homeschooled through Middle School and then enrolled in a very reasonably priced Catholic HS where they read widely, recited poetry, and celebrated Shakespeare every year. Best decision I ever made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, taking a look at varios teams at Deal they are reading:

6th:
Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry
Tuck Everlasting
Inside out and Back Again
Beowulf

7th:
Poetry
Boy by Roald Dahl
Warriors Don’t Cry by Melba Patillo Beals
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Choice of novels
The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm by Nancy Farmer

8th
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Raisin in the Sun
Chains
145th Street


I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare in here, but its still got Beowulf so that's something.

Yes, introducing Beowulf is a highlight, but it really doesn't integrate with anything else in the 6th-grade curriculum. The sad thing is, it doesn't cost a lot of money to offer a robust, somewhat integrated curriculum. Knowledge is free. We don't have to be so stingy with it. If DCPS adopted the Core Knowledge Curriculum, which is now being revised to make it more "inclusive" we could instantly upgrade our curriculum. The big problem is the anti-intellectual bias of many educators. Content is secondary to pedagogy.

[Anonymous]

At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, taking a look at varios teams at Deal they are reading:

6th:
Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry
Tuck Everlasting
Inside out and Back Again
Beowulf

7th:
Poetry
Boy by Roald Dahl
Warriors Don’t Cry by Melba Patillo Beals
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Choice of novels
The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm by Nancy Farmer

8th
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Raisin in the Sun
Chains
145th Street


I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare in here, but its still got Beowulf so that's something.

this seems a little unambitious in terms of difficulty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

I think anyone with a tiny bit of imagination can design a class that goes from the Bible to Shakespeare to Toni Morrison. Or a sequence that does Shakespeare in one semester then Toni Morrison the next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, taking a look at varios teams at Deal they are reading:

6th:
Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry
Tuck Everlasting
Inside out and Back Again
Beowulf

7th:
Poetry
Boy by Roald Dahl
Warriors Don’t Cry by Melba Patillo Beals
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Choice of novels
The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm by Nancy Farmer

8th
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Raisin in the Sun
Chains
145th Street


I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare in here, but its still got Beowulf so that's something.

this seems a little unambitious in terms of difficulty

It's pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this doesn’t matter to anyone, but I’m watching an episode of Law and Order SVU. The father in the midst of a crisis just told his daughter, Cordelia, that he loves her and forgives her. Absolutely a call back to King Lear, which I would never know if I hadn’t read it in high school.

You can’t appreciate more modern literature and fiction without knowing how brilliant and timeless Shakespeare was. He’s not just any old dead white guy. All schools need to teach it, ideally pairing it with more modern works.

This is absolutely relevant, and is described as cultural influence. Great literary works reference each other and the body of knowledge at the time of their creation and are later referenced by other works and so on.

It should be studied because it makes us understand better our own society and humanity.

Realistically throughout high school one can study about 15-20 works, so the question is what should those be.

Where do you come up with 15-20 works? Seems pretty arbitrary. That's like saying students can only learn 10 vocabulary words a day.

That's because in a year, the school will asign 4-5 works for study so over 4 years of high school you'd have 16-20. To me that is the bare minimum, and as a society/parent community we should have a common understanding on what is appropriate to be on the list. For my own child I want him to read one book a month from the literary canon. He's more interested in math, but still it's important so i'd say its a good compromise.

Obviously, if your child has a strong interest in humanities, that would not be a hard limit, and he'll likely read a lot more.

The issue today is that the woke mob is going after what's on that list. Apparently Shakespeare is enshrining white supremacy, is not equitable for children of color because it's not reflected in their culture, the vocabulary is too difficult for them etc.

They didn't manage to cancel Shakespeare yet, but they'd like to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

I think anyone with a tiny bit of imagination can design a class that goes from the Bible to Shakespeare to Toni Morrison. Or a sequence that does Shakespeare in one semester then Toni Morrison the next.

What's it again with the Bible?! Can we please leave religious indoctrination out of school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

Mostly agree with what you say with a few caveats. How do you decide that a book is about the experience of white americans and western culture? do we just say white authors write about the white experience and black authors write about the black experience? that's a tad simplistic. what is the black experience, mainly racism and oppression? what is the white experience, everything that non minority? Do we put Shakespeare in the white bucket? How about Homer or Gilgamesh? why do we need to replace white authors with non-white authors? do we need to check the representation boxes on the canon so that it precisely reflects the composition of the general population? Why is the canon diversity thought of in terms of race, gender, and oppression? There are plenty of other criteria for diversifying the canon.

I am open to changing the canon, it should be fluid and reflect what is relevant today, but if we change something, it needs to be thought through, and at least as far as high school curriculum is concerned, the changes should be relatively small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

I think anyone with a tiny bit of imagination can design a class that goes from the Bible to Shakespeare to Toni Morrison. Or a sequence that does Shakespeare in one semester then Toni Morrison the next.

What's it again with the Bible?! Can we please leave religious indoctrination out of school?