Deal kid is floundering in private high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course grades and test scores come first, but the arbitrariness comes into play, because elite schools could fill themselves several times over with perfect test scores and grades. Therefore the spin the college counselor puts on it can influence the process. Naturally one wants to believe that the soft skills should be emphasized, but these are difficult to evaluate in an application.

It's definitely non-deterministic, but the indeterminism comes in the essay and the extra-curriculars, not in "how the application is put together." A private counselor will not make or break your child's application.

I'm not a huge fan of platitudes around "elite schools could fill themselves several times over with perfect test scores and grades." No they couldn't, there are fewer perfect SAT scores in a year than the incoming class of even one of these schools (usually around 1k-2k). If you get a 1600, you're probably going to go to one of those top schools, even if you won't get into every single one.

I'm not sure this is true with "super scoring"...look at MIT's score range. The top 25% received perfect scores. That's just one school. Some kids are taking these tests 5-6 times to get a perfect score or close to it. I've seen other threads where people talk about whether to only focus on one section in a retake because of superscoring (with private tutoring of course). It's just another area where wealthy kids have a leg up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course grades and test scores come first, but the arbitrariness comes into play, because elite schools could fill themselves several times over with perfect test scores and grades. Therefore the spin the college counselor puts on it can influence the process. Naturally one wants to believe that the soft skills should be emphasized, but these are difficult to evaluate in an application.

It's definitely non-deterministic, but the indeterminism comes in the essay and the extra-curriculars, not in "how the application is put together." A private counselor will not make or break your child's application.

I'm not a huge fan of platitudes around "elite schools could fill themselves several times over with perfect test scores and grades." No they couldn't, there are fewer perfect SAT scores in a year than the incoming class of even one of these schools (usually around 1k-2k). If you get a 1600, you're probably going to go to one of those top schools, even if you won't get into every single one.

I wish it were not the case but technically it is true. Check out the book "who gets in and why". It says that Harvard as an example received enough applicants with perfect scores to fill itself several times over. This is because more and more students across the country are applying to so-called elite schools. In prior years the higher education market was more geographically constrained. Also more people are going to college than ever before. So who gets in to selective schools is extremely arbitrary. That being said there are more and more great schools, and spots overall are abundant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in college admissions. I've observed is that private LACs and universities, even in the top tier, tend to emphasize HS grades less than applicants, their parents, teachers and guidance counselors tend to think, and not just freshman year grades. This is true as long as the applicant demonstrates strong intellectual promise and preparation for college work in other ways, particularly via standardized test scores and extra curriculars. Public universities invariably emphasize grades in admissions to a greater degree than privates and top universities abroad.

I've seen applicants who weren't legacies or recruited athletes who didn't rank in the top dozen or two in their high school classes crack Ivies. These kids tended to score sky high on SATs and/or ACTs, APs, IB Diploma exams and brought serious an abiding interests to the table. As a general rule, they also put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application. Admission people know that an applicant can be better than a curriculum and teaching at a particular school, particularly a large public school, and that some kids go through phases in high school where they can't concentrate well for whatever reasons.

No need to sweat every last high school grade, even for Harvard, Stanford, MIT if a kid is bright, driven and a hard worker.

Thank you for the insights! I know it is not you but the system, but "put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application" is simply how much private counselling their parents can afford.

As someone who was admitted to several of the most selective undergraduate and graduate schools that this country offers, without paid or unpaid help, I disagree. Anyone can use free resources to learn about what universities value. And, anyone can write a great, thoughtful and unique essay if they have great or unique thoughts to express.

Yes, but there are a ton of mediocre kids whose parents hire college counselors to put together that coherent and thoughtful packet for them, including writing the essays for all intents and purposes.

If they are truly mediocre, it will ocme out in some other aspect of the application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in college admissions. I've observed is that private LACs and universities, even in the top tier, tend to emphasize HS grades less than applicants, their parents, teachers and guidance counselors tend to think, and not just freshman year grades. This is true as long as the applicant demonstrates strong intellectual promise and preparation for college work in other ways, particularly via standardized test scores and extra curriculars. Public universities invariably emphasize grades in admissions to a greater degree than privates and top universities abroad.

I've seen applicants who weren't legacies or recruited athletes who didn't rank in the top dozen or two in their high school classes crack Ivies. These kids tended to score sky high on SATs and/or ACTs, APs, IB Diploma exams and brought serious an abiding interests to the table. As a general rule, they also put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application. Admission people know that an applicant can be better than a curriculum and teaching at a particular school, particularly a large public school, and that some kids go through phases in high school where they can't concentrate well for whatever reasons.

No need to sweat every last high school grade, even for Harvard, Stanford, MIT if a kid is bright, driven and a hard worker.

Thank you for the insights! I know it is not you but the system, but "put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application" is simply how much private counselling their parents can afford.

As someone who was admitted to several of the most selective undergraduate and graduate schools that this country offers, without paid or unpaid help, I disagree. Anyone can use free resources to learn about what universities value. And, anyone can write a great, thoughtful and unique essay if they have great or unique thoughts to express.

Yes, but there are a ton of mediocre kids whose parents hire college counselors to put together that coherent and thoughtful packet for them, including writing the essays for all intents and purposes.

If they are truly mediocre, it will ocme out in some other aspect of the application.

I think this is correct. I am one of the PPs above. I’ve read so many college and grad school essays from friends and friends of friends over the years and 90% of them are boring and just blah. Even ones written by very bright and accomplished people who also had access to the best of help. I suspect that much of the time when you read about kids with amazing scores who don’t get admitted to top schools, it’s because their essays and recommendations reflect the fact that they don’t have the “passion” that the top schools are looking for.