What is "Big Law?"

[Anonymous]

People are always posting on DCUM about "big law."

Is it "big" because you make a shitton of money? Because your law career is so all-encompassing you don't have time for anything else (besides posting on DCUM)? Because the cases you work on are "important?" What kind of cases do you work on as a "big" lawyer?

Enlighten me.

[Anonymous]

It just means a large law firm where the salaries are the same from place to place at the entry level and you have to bill a certain (high) number of hours per year. Many of the cases are "big". High profile execs, big companies. A lot of the work at the associate level is mindless document review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It just means a large law firm where the salaries are the same from place to place at the entry level and you have to bill a certain (high) number of hours per year. Many of the cases are "big". High profile execs, big companies. A lot of the work at the associate level is mindless document review.

With the promise that doing this will make you a partner, although the odds are very slim that will happen.

[Anonymous]

No, the promise is a starting salary of $160K for a 26 year old, with guaranteed, significant raises for the next 7 years until you reach near $300K. Then, what? I don't know because I'm an 8th year.

[Anonymous]

A white collar sweat shop.

[Anonymous]

Yaaaawwwn. *smack, smack*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, the promise is a starting salary of $160K for a 26 year old, with guaranteed, significant raises for the next 7 years until you reach near $300K. Then, what? I don't know because I'm an 8th year.

Unfortunately this is when lots of associates learn that they're not really a "good fit" for the firm and big law shows them the door. The rest are invited to pay the partnership $$$$$$$ to join the club. Then they learn what hard work is.

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is that "BigLaw" is one type of law job, and it's pretty similar across most of the 100+ firms that make make up "BigLaw." So if a lawyer says she works for "BigLaw," that tells you about what her job entails (long hours, hard work, corporate culture, maybe only moderately rewarding, but well compensated). In a similar vein, if someone says she is a "government lawyer," that also tells you lots about what her job entails, even if you have no idea what government agency she works for.

What kind of work goes on at BigLaw? All sorts of work -- litigation, transactional "deal work," tax planning, employment advice, advice on compliance with import/export regulations, health care compliance, etc etc etc. Usually the work is fairly complex and demanding, so BigLaw charges the highest rates to clients, and thus the clients are mostly corporations that can afford the high rates. Because the work is complex and demanding, BigLaw usually hires only highly credentialed associates with good grades from strong law schools. And it pays those associates high salaries. But in exchange for those high salaries, BigLaw demands that the associates work very hard and be willing to sacrifice their time/health/emotions to BigLaw.

HTH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that "BigLaw" is one type of law job, and it's pretty similar across most of the 100+ firms that make make up "BigLaw." So if a lawyer says she works for "BigLaw," that tells you about what her job entails (long hours, hard work, corporate culture, maybe only moderately rewarding, but well compensated). In a similar vein, if someone says she is a "government lawyer," that also tells you lots about what her job entails, even if you have no idea what government agency she works for.

What kind of work goes on at BigLaw? All sorts of work -- litigation, transactional "deal work," tax planning, employment advice, advice on compliance with import/export regulations, health care compliance, etc etc etc. Usually the work is fairly complex and demanding, so BigLaw charges the highest rates to clients, and thus the clients are mostly corporations that can afford the high rates. Because the work is complex and demanding, BigLaw usually hires only highly credentialed associates with good grades from strong law schools. And it pays those associates high salaries. But in exchange for those high salaries, BigLaw demands that the associates work very hard and be willing to sacrifice their time/health/emotions to BigLaw.

HTH.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that "BigLaw" is one type of law job, and it's pretty similar across most of the 100+ firms that make make up "BigLaw." So if a lawyer says she works for "BigLaw," that tells you about what her job entails (long hours, hard work, corporate culture, maybe only moderately rewarding, but well compensated). In a similar vein, if someone says she is a "government lawyer," that also tells you lots about what her job entails, even if you have no idea what government agency she works for.

What kind of work goes on at BigLaw? All sorts of work -- litigation, transactional "deal work," tax planning, employment advice, advice on compliance with import/export regulations, health care compliance, etc etc etc. Usually the work is fairly complex and demanding, so BigLaw charges the highest rates to clients, and thus the clients are mostly corporations that can afford the high rates. Because the work is complex and demanding, BigLaw usually hires only highly credentialed associates with good grades from strong law schools. And it pays those associates high salaries. But in exchange for those high salaries, BigLaw demands that the associates work very hard and be willing to sacrifice their time/health/emotions to BigLaw.

HTH.

This.

Word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, the promise is a starting salary of $160K for a 26 year old, with guaranteed, significant raises for the next 7 years until you reach near $300K. Then, what? I don't know because I'm an 8th year.

Unfortunately this is when lots of associates learn that they're not really a "good fit" for the firm and big law shows them the door. The rest are invited to pay the partnership $$$$$$$ to join the club. Then they learn what hard work is.

OK, please excuse this really dumb question, but... how does this work? A 7 or 8 year associate has to pay the firm to be promoted to partner? Is that a cash buy, or does it come out of future salary/ earnings?

[Anonymous]

big leaches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately this is when lots of associates learn that they're not really a "good fit" for the firm and big law shows them the door. The rest are invited to pay the partnership $$$$$$$ to join the club. Then they learn what hard work is.

OK, please excuse this really dumb question, but... how does this work? A 7 or 8 year associate has to pay the firm to be promoted to partner? Is that a cash buy, or does it come out of future salary/ earnings?

If you are asked to be a partner, and you accept, you have to buy a share of the partnership (capital contribution). This is essentially an interest-free loan to the firm, which lasts as long as you are a partner. The cost of the buy-in depends on the firm, but most BigLaw buy-ins I've heard of charge about 15-50% of your total compensation, often with escalating percentages for the more senior partners. So for example, a relatively junior partner might be told she's scheduled to make $350,000, and thus is required to contribute $87,500 (25%). Those big kahuna equity partners making $1 million might have $400-500k locked up in the firm. You pay the buy-in about the same time you make partner (before you've actually been paid any of that partner salary!), which usually means that you have to take out a big loan from the bank and start paying interest immediately.

And if you're an equity partner, you are not guaranteed any of that big salary. You might receive only about 60% of your total anticipated salary in month-to-month payments throughout the year. Only if the firm makes budget do you receive the other 40% of your salary at the end of the year. There's plenty of upside potential in a good economy, but lots of downside too. For example, in Howrey's last year, the firm missed budget by something like 45%. That means many equity partners made only about half of what they expected, and even were asked to pay money back to the firm at the end of their year.

As a practical matter, what all this means is that junior partners are often relatively cash poor. Although their anticipated salary increased when they made partner, their monthly paycheck might decrease from when they were associates. And they're making interest & principle payments on top of that to cover the capital contribution loan. Many complain that they earn less as junior partners than they did as senior associates.

Of course, no one should be crying for all these jokers, because they're all still in the top 2% of income earners. But it's no bed of roses either.

[Anonymous]

And since you mention Howrey: young partners in 2008 paid in more to the firm than they earned. Then the firm collapsed and took every partner's cap contribution with it. Many partners are left paying off their capital contribution loans (about $250,000 for young partners)-- and the firm no longer exists (except in bankruptcy).

[Anonymous]

My firm, which is one of those mentioned in the other thread, gives an interest-free loan to junior partners for their capital contribution, which is taken out of their draw. Their income reportedly does increase modestly from being a senior associate, although it becomes much more complicated because they have to file taxes in every jurisdiction where we have an office.