Is the IB diploma worth it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

UVA does not just say "oh the counselor checked the Most Rigorous box, that's all we need". They look at exactly what classes the student took, and take into account which types of IB classes were taken and which ones were HL or SL. If you took the hardest classes and took them HL, they will notice this and you will be considered to have had a more rigorous education than if you took easy classes, as indeed you should. Similarly they are going to notice if you did the diploma vs merely an assortment.

This.

[Anonymous]

At our FCPS IB HS the kids that do the full diploma are the students being accepted to UVA, W&M and T20 schools.

Do students who take a rigorous course load and don’t pursue the diploma get into top schools? There are some who do. But the students who pursue the IB diploma are far more likely to get in.

I have three friends in higher ed admissions and all say when they see IB diploma candidate it gives those students an edge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our FCPS IB HS the kids that do the full diploma are the students being accepted to UVA, W&M and T20 schools.

Do students who take a rigorous course load and don’t pursue the diploma get into top schools? There are some who do. But the students who pursue the IB diploma are far more likely to get in.

I have three friends in higher ed admissions and all say when they see IB diploma candidate it gives those students an edge.

At an IB only high school, I could see that happening if the school counselor only checks most rigor for Diploma candidates. But it was posted earlier that at Marshall that’s not the case and kids doing an assortment of classes also get most rigor.

How would colleges give diploma candidates an edge half a year before they even take the exams? They would make it clear on their admissions pages that if you do IB, you should do diploma, but that’s never the case.

Looking at AP Capstone Diploma, which is very similar to the IB Diploma, nobody ever argues it gives the students an edge. It’s the same for IBD.

People invent college counselor friends, make up anecdotes, really puzzled why.

[Anonymous]

The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

That’s in line with the benefit of the AP Capstone diploma. The only one in top 20, MIT gives as much credit as for one class for AP Capstone with a score of 5.

Also in line with the extra amount of work required, TOK, CAS and EE require similar amount of work as an HL course.

I agree that if you really like the diploma program, you should do it. If not, choose something you’re enthusiastic about and you’ll be fine.

Given how rarely credit is given for these diploma programs, I’d argue it’s always better to take a real class, that’s consistently valued across all top universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

That’s in line with the benefit of the AP Capstone diploma. The only one in top 20, MIT gives as much credit as for one class for AP Capstone with a score of 5.

Also in line with the extra amount of work required, TOK, CAS and EE require similar amount of work as an HL course.

I agree that if you really like the diploma program, you should do it. If not, choose something you’re enthusiastic about and you’ll be fine.

Given how rarely credit is given for these diploma programs, I’d argue it’s always better to take a real class, that’s consistently valued across all top universities.

+1

This jibes with how Cambridge University in UK evaluates diploma programs.

Minimum entry requirements for IB are a score of at least 41, and 776 in HL subjects.

For US applicants they require 5APs with a score of 5 and specifically say that AP Capstone diploma cannot be counted, so it’s worth less than a regular AP class.

In short:

IBDP+3HL+3SL=5AP

The IB diploma is worth less than an extra course.

[Anonymous]

Why is anyone surprised IBDP on its own is not that big of a deal?

The breakdown for what’s required and the amount of teaching hours:
Theory of knowledge: 100 hours of light discussion
Creativity, Activity, Service: used to be 150 hours, but they removed the time mandate because of rampant cheating and misreporting and now they focus on “learning outcomes”.
Extended Essay: 50 ish hours

In all, the diploma specific tasks are 300 hours of easy work with most of it (CAS) being self reported with no assignments and no verification. An HL class is 240 hours, and that’s a college level work, not sitting around chit chatting.

It would be completely unfair to give the edge to a diploma candidate taking it easy with fluff instead of someone choosing to do a challenging HL class like Chemistry instead. Colleges aren’t stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

That’s in line with the benefit of the AP Capstone diploma. The only one in top 20, MIT gives as much credit as for one class for AP Capstone with a score of 5.

Also in line with the extra amount of work required, TOK, CAS and EE require similar amount of work as an HL course.

I agree that if you really like the diploma program, you should do it. If not, choose something you’re enthusiastic about and you’ll be fine.

Given how rarely credit is given for these diploma programs, I’d argue it’s always better to take a real class, that’s consistently valued across all top universities.

+1

These diploma programs are based on classes that nobody cares about, Theory of knowledge, extended essay, seminar, research, it’s just trying too hard to come up with yet one more differentiating feature.

The weirdest part is when you see parents convinced it’s going to get their student in UVA, WM or Ivy, which is another level of stupidity. How can anyone imagine that CAS will give an edge to UVA when I know of kids filling in their sheet the night before with made up hours and reflections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

That’s in line with the benefit of the AP Capstone diploma. The only one in top 20, MIT gives as much credit as for one class for AP Capstone with a score of 5.

Also in line with the extra amount of work required, TOK, CAS and EE require similar amount of work as an HL course.

I agree that if you really like the diploma program, you should do it. If not, choose something you’re enthusiastic about and you’ll be fine.

Given how rarely credit is given for these diploma programs, I’d argue it’s always better to take a real class, that’s consistently valued across all top universities.

+1

This jibes with how Cambridge University in UK evaluates diploma programs.

Minimum entry requirements for IB are a score of at least 41, and 776 in HL subjects.

For US applicants they require 5APs with a score of 5 and specifically say that AP Capstone diploma cannot be counted, so it’s worth less than a regular AP class.

In short:

IBDP+3HL+3SL=5AP

The IB diploma is worth less than an extra course.

Note that the IB students typically take 3 HL classes in both 11th and 12th grade. The "course" is over 2 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I haven’t seen a single college admissions page stating you need to do the diploma, recommending it, or suggesting it is beneficial in some way, no idea where this is coming from. IBO advertises the number of students taking it, but that’s another matter.

OK, now tell me if you've ever seen a college admissions page stating that you need to do some given (high) number of AP courses, recommending you do so, or suggesting it is beneficial in some way. They don't. Obviously all these FCPS kids shouldn't bother taking 10+ AP courses, there is no point in doing so if college admissions pages don't directly tell you to.

What college admissions pages tell you is something along the lines of "take the most challenging courses available at your high school and get good grades in them." At an IB school, that means get the IB diploma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

That’s in line with the benefit of the AP Capstone diploma. The only one in top 20, MIT gives as much credit as for one class for AP Capstone with a score of 5.

Also in line with the extra amount of work required, TOK, CAS and EE require similar amount of work as an HL course.

I agree that if you really like the diploma program, you should do it. If not, choose something you’re enthusiastic about and you’ll be fine.

Given how rarely credit is given for these diploma programs, I’d argue it’s always better to take a real class, that’s consistently valued across all top universities.

+1

This jibes with how Cambridge University in UK evaluates diploma programs.

Minimum entry requirements for IB are a score of at least 41, and 776 in HL subjects.

For US applicants they require 5APs with a score of 5 and specifically say that AP Capstone diploma cannot be counted, so it’s worth less than a regular AP class.

In short:

IBDP+3HL+3SL=5AP

The IB diploma is worth less than an extra course.

Its a moveable feast at Cambridge. Note the term "minimums"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I haven’t seen a single college admissions page stating you need to do the diploma, recommending it, or suggesting it is beneficial in some way, no idea where this is coming from. IBO advertises the number of students taking it, but that’s another matter.

OK, now tell me if you've ever seen a college admissions page stating that you need to do some given (high) number of AP courses, recommending you do so, or suggesting it is beneficial in some way. They don't. Obviously all these FCPS kids shouldn't bother taking 10+ AP courses, there is no point in doing so if college admissions pages don't directly tell you to.

What college admissions pages tell you is something along the lines of "take the most challenging courses available at your high school and get good grades in them." At an IB school, that means get the IB diploma.

Colleges don’t tell you the number of APs to take but they do give some guidance on what courses to take. Read this one for example:

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

It’s clear that if interested in this school, Calculus and math in general is important as well as taking Physics, Chemistry and Biology. While they say that not all need to be advanced courses, I interpret it as being helpful if they are. I’d also load up on as much math as I can handle, so linear algebra and statistics before Math HL. Among sciences prioritize Physics C since they specifically mention electromagnetism. Add writing intensive courses like AP English and History.

For humanities “There are no specific high school courses in these fields that we require.” If you read that page and you’re still convinced you need to take Theory of Knowledge then take it and be happy.

Most would read it differently and plan their own path. Multiple posters and IB teachers in the thread said it’s fine to not do the diploma, I don’t know why you’re so adamant the diploma is required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

That’s in line with the benefit of the AP Capstone diploma. The only one in top 20, MIT gives as much credit as for one class for AP Capstone with a score of 5.

Also in line with the extra amount of work required, TOK, CAS and EE require similar amount of work as an HL course.

I agree that if you really like the diploma program, you should do it. If not, choose something you’re enthusiastic about and you’ll be fine.

Given how rarely credit is given for these diploma programs, I’d argue it’s always better to take a real class, that’s consistently valued across all top universities.

+1

This jibes with how Cambridge University in UK evaluates diploma programs.

Minimum entry requirements for IB are a score of at least 41, and 776 in HL subjects.

For US applicants they require 5APs with a score of 5 and specifically say that AP Capstone diploma cannot be counted, so it’s worth less than a regular AP class.

In short:

IBDP+3HL+3SL=5AP

The IB diploma is worth less than an extra course.

Note that the IB students typically take 3 HL classes in both 11th and 12th grade. The "course" is over 2 years.

For credit at US universities, it’s the exam that matters not how many years you studied. HL classes and full year AP classes generally get two semesters of credit. It’s not true that colleges look at IB classes and give them more weight compared to AP just because they are taught over two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only advantage for the IB diploma on its own that I’m aware of is within University of California system. IB diploma recipients with scores of at least 30 get 6 elective quarter credits. For comparison HL and AP classes get 8 quarter credits.

So the IB diploma counts less than an extra course, but only after the scores are received, so after admissions decisions.

Keep in mind that UC has some of the most generous IB credit policies, I don’t know of any other college doing the same, so that’s the greatest advantage one can derive from being a diploma candidate, and less than that at other colleges.

Ballpark, the participation in the IB diploma matters for admissions as much as enrollment in a HL/AP before getting a grade, so it makes perfect sense that doing an assortment of IB classes won’t hold the student back.

That’s in line with the benefit of the AP Capstone diploma. The only one in top 20, MIT gives as much credit as for one class for AP Capstone with a score of 5.

Also in line with the extra amount of work required, TOK, CAS and EE require similar amount of work as an HL course.

I agree that if you really like the diploma program, you should do it. If not, choose something you’re enthusiastic about and you’ll be fine.

Given how rarely credit is given for these diploma programs, I’d argue it’s always better to take a real class, that’s consistently valued across all top universities.

+1

This jibes with how Cambridge University in UK evaluates diploma programs.

Minimum entry requirements for IB are a score of at least 41, and 776 in HL subjects.

For US applicants they require 5APs with a score of 5 and specifically say that AP Capstone diploma cannot be counted, so it’s worth less than a regular AP class.

In short:

IBDP+3HL+3SL=5AP

The IB diploma is worth less than an extra course.

Its a moveable feast at Cambridge. Note the term "minimums"

We’re not talking here about what’s needed to get into Cambridge, just to figure out how much universities value diploma programs.

The answer is not much since Cambridge states AP Capstone can’t be considered an AP class even for their minimum requirements which is a low bar anyways.

In top 30, MIT, Berkeley and UCLA give the equivalent of a class for non elective credit. Not worth it in my view, unless Seminar is taken as English 10, but even then you’d have to burn an elective with AP research in 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

What do those kids who graduated with an IB diploma in 2025 or earlier say was a plus of IB? Or do you not recommend it ?