how much are you losing, per quarter, on your 401K?

[Anonymous]

Holy f&&&. I suppose it is not as bad as a few years ago, but I just got my 401K statement in the mail. I don't follow it daily because I can't handle the stress. I lost 15 percent this quarter. Like, a TON of money. How the fuck do you lose that much money in 3 months time, was my plan investing in fucking netflix exclusively or something? I don't know much about stocks, and basically do what the plan's guidelines are. I suppose I have only myself to blame for this for not knowing more about it, (I mean, besides blaming the economy) but I don't have investments outside of the 401K and our plan is really limited and, I'm going to be really super honest here, I just don't understand the stock market and investing and I've made HUGE attempts to understand it. I just don't. I rebalance according to what "they" tell me to do, etc. So how do I lose that much money??? Seriously, at this point, I feel like I would be much better off just stopping the 401K and squirreling my money away in a sock. I'm really starting to lose faith in this 401K system. My company matches a little bit (4 percent) so that's the incentive to stay in company, but I'm losing so much that the match isn't doing me any good anyway. I think I'm losing principal! Ugh. I'm really upset. It's so hard for us to put that much money aside for retirement, and I don't feel like it is doing us much good. I do understand that you have to ride things out for the long term, but I've been investing in this thing since I was in my early 20s (late 30's now) and I haven't built wealth in it the way I'd hoped. I am going to call a planner and see if I should be just investing elsewhere, and F the tax / match benefits. Certainly feels that way. (And sadly, we do not have enough income to do both, really).

[Anonymous]

I haven't lost any and neither have you if you haven't withdrawn it.

[Anonymous]

My wife and I have been saving since 2000 and our value has gone NO, maybe a total of 10%. 401K is the shitiest scam, there is NO accountability, the only thing you can be sure of is the 2-3% fee the fucking management companies will pocket.

Why don't we change the fee structure to whenever our funds make a profit and if there is no profit this year you get no fee payments.

We are so pissed at this shit that we have deicided to pull it all out and invest in some rental properties and use that as our retirement income. Yes three is a penalty but in the end 401ks are worthless.

[Anonymous]

My wife and I have been saving since 2000 and our value has gone NO, maybe a total of 10% up since then. 401K is the shitiest scam, there is NO accountability, the only thing you can be sure of is the 2-3% fee the fucking management companies will pocket.

Why don't we change the fee structure to whenever our funds make a profit you (fund managers) get paid and if there is no profit this year you get no fee payments.

We are so pissed at this shit that we have deicided to pull it all out and invest in some rental properties and use that as our retirement income. Yes there is a penalty but in the end 401ks are worthless and this continual stagnation of our savings (with barely 10% growth over 11 years) is worth the penalty. We will continue to pay in to get the company match.

I hate fund managers, bankers and lawyers, FUCKERs that get paid even when they produce nothing.

[Anonymous]

On a ten year rolling average mine is running at about 8% - 9% per year. If you are looking at it quarter to quarter you are not really a long term investor...

[Anonymous]

I don't check mine on a quarterly basis, like you, I can't take the stress of it. I'm in my mid 30s and when I do check, if it's down, I just remind myself that this is a long term investment. As I get older, I will reevaluate and adjust the funds I am invested in based on performance, but I am currently in some rather aggressive funds.

FWIW, I'm actually up on my YTD statement. Not a ton, but some. It's much better than when I was down nearly >33% in 2008.

[Anonymous]

Here is the truth click and set the range from Aug 27, 1999 to present, you would make 10 LOUSY percent over an 11 year period
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=INDEXDJXJI#

Think about that, 11 precent over 11 years?, you would be better off putting that money in money market savings account
http://www.dinkytown.net/java/CompoundSavings.html

[Anonymous]

the nasdaq is EVEN worse than the dow

[Anonymous]

be grateful that you didn't start investing when I did (late 2004). I actually have a negative annualized return (-1%). I contribute every single month and have about 7% less than what I put in).

[Anonymous]

I think about it as buying low...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think about it as buying low...

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think about it as buying low...

+1.

+2. I don't even look at the statement, because we're in it for the long-term.

Anyway, most investment options did terribly over the past 10 years. If you had bought real estate 10 years ago, you'd probably be in even worse shape, especially if you bought it outside the DC area. To the PP who is buying real estate, it's not a horrible idea if it turns out that you bought low in the past year, but you also need some diversification because that market may not have shaken out yet, and real estate prices could drop some more, plus if you hate 401(k) fees, have you stopped to look at closing costs, not to mention the high (10%? 20%?) penalties for early withdrawal on your 401(k)s.

Yes, 401(k) fees can suck. It's best to stick to indexed (as opposed to managed) funds. We need more transparency in fee disclosure. These outrageous fees are a good reason against privatizing Social Security and hand everybody's money over to Wall Street so they can make huge profits while sucking away the returns on our investments.

[Anonymous]

Please talk to a good financial advisor. He/She can help you see your returns in light of (a) the overall market and (b) your investment timeline.

And try again to understand the market. It's not that difficult. For one thing, your statement probably reflects returns through September 30. October has been a really good month, so your account(s) are almost certainly higher now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please talk to a good financial advisor. He/She can help you see your returns in light of (a) the overall market and (b) your investment timeline.

And try again to understand the market. It's not that difficult. For one thing, your statement probably reflects returns through September 30. October has been a really good month, so your account(s) are almost certainly higher now.

Thanks for the encouragement. I think maybe I understated what I do know. Of course I know what the overall performance is, and not just the quarterly performance. The quarterly performance was just very distressing. My year-to-date losses are 15 percent. I started investing in 1996, but of course that was just a really small contribution - 5 percent at best of a teeny tiny salary, so I didn't have much money in there when the market was strong. I have looked at it again and again, and the overall performance is very, very bad, if you count the company match (which went away during the worst of the market but now returned at half power) it is just on the positive side of a wash. Maybe not enough to keep pace with inflation over that time period and yes, I think my money may have been better off in a sock (or a money market account). I DO keep telling myself yes, I'm in it for the long-haul, but I lost SOOOO much in 2008 / 2009. Then I lost way more since. Last year I actually saw a little climb, so I started feeling good about the long haul, but in the 15+ years I've been in the market, I've felt more pain than good times. And it makes me wonder about market volatility. What if I had several million in there and was planning to retire this year, and had a loss like I did in 2008 2009? (I lost 64 percent of my money that year!). I guess at that point you are in "safer" markets, but still, I know a ton of people who lost a heap that year and had to put off retirement. This is such a huge, huge worry for me. I just don't feel confident in my 401K and we've actually had several funds within it "shut down" for underperformance, and goddamn if that doesn't put a hole in your money. And when I say I don't understand the market, I mean that I don't know anything about moving my own money around. Sorry about all of the profanity. I don't think I'm a stupid person, so it is frustrating that I can't be better with investments. I've read books, articles, etc. I feel like I understand macro economics, but the economics of my own 401K is distressing me.

This was a cover story in Time magazine in 2009, and it articulates better than I can why I am not confident that my 401K is doing much for me. Many of the stories in the book are so relatable. They could easily play out for my family. I want to do the right thing, but it is hard to sock that money away when the sacrifice is NOT looking like it's paying off.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1929233,00.html

Please, those of you who have been talking back and forth with me, if you have time, read the article and tell me what you think. If you look to the left, there's a link to a story "why you should not give up on your 401K yet" as well, which I also read. Would love from people who are more sophisticated investors.

[Anonymous]

I understand some 401(k) the funds or fund mgmt company suck. At one company where I worked, the most productive fund only made the 4% annualized in the 90's early 2K. One thing I have learned from people who have been successful in managing their funds in retirement is that they have taken the money out of the 401(k) and put it into an IRA -either self-managed at Fidelity/TRPrice/etc. or with the advice of a financial planner (either fee for service or pct. of assets managed). These people stay informed and have more flexibility in the investements and availability of the proceeds.

When I look at the cross section of my mutual funds (including those in TSP (me), 401a/403b (her), IRAs plus a dozen or so stocks/DRIPs) I try to keep at least a good amount in each of the squares in the Morningstar grid (3x3 square small to large cap/value to growth) and a good percent in real estate investment trust fund and a 1/3 to 1/4 in funds with some exposure to or all international stocks. I tend to like value investing, dividends and mid- to small-caps funds/stock (but that is just me.) Not a real fan of bonds, but recognize their value.

This kind of diversification allows some gains when some are losing, losses when some are gaining -- it doesn't freefall in a market like this. Overall about an annual average of 10% over the majority years of investing (since about 1995). I am still down right now about 8% of value vs. the latest peak. But it has allowed some interesting opportunities like the converting the international stocks funds in my IRA to my Roth IRA since the share price is depressed. Gains will end up being on the Roth side tax free.

If your 401K is really that bad consistently, you may want dive in and calcuate if you can you are better off pulling out of the pretax 401(k) and take the amount as taxed salary and put it into a Roth IRA. That would at least give you an informed option that could be more diversified and closer to your control.