Walls admissions article in the Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that Walls admissions are a mess now because the test was scrapped. The process used to work sort of because the test was a first screening tool that eliminated many applicants who were not a good fit for Walls. The interview process was never great but it worked ok to sort through the remaining applicants. Also, applicants were sorted on how well they did on the test.

DCPS as usual did not think things through. They scrapped the test in the name of equity but gave no further thought to how applicants will be chosen. This has created a mess with interviewers implicit bias reigning supreme. I’m guessing Walls is short staffed and doesn’t have the time or manpower to sort this out within the limitations imposed on them by DCPS

And by "good fit" this once only applied to academic test taking acumen. It's not everything but it's something. Now who knows what "good fit" means?

Being able to take a test well matters for, you know, school.

They should bring back the test.

PP here. Yes I agree test should be back, but taking a high stakes test well isn't the only thing that matters for school and it's not the end all be all of academic potential. The current alternatives here are far inferior. It's not like colleges with optional SATs where instead there's a rigorous process for screening applicants. It's test or ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They frequently have other tests, like AP tests, and there's more variation in coursework at the high school than the middle school level. For exam schools, it's been very common - until the last few years - to use test scores either exclusively or in a very heavy way, and it's produced incredibly high-performing and desirable schools. And part of the appeal is transparency and planning. In DC, even if you have a kid who consistently gets good grades and top scores, you have no idea whether they're going to get into a top high school.

Those AP tests aren't always high stakes and there's some discretion at most schools over which tests to take and when they are taken. Agree that any competitive HS will have this component. NYC is an interesting case study -- the most competitive schools are predominantly East and South Asian and that's because applicants dominate testing, but the schools are struggling to address diversity and equity, even for black and brown students who could thrive at those schools.

I don't know if that's the goal for Walls but an entrance exam sets a reasonable floor to select the most deserving applicants.

The Chicago magnet admissions model is the one to admire and copy, not NYC's. Chicago goes with great transparency and stability in magnet admissions, along with a comprehensive, college admissions-style applications. In Chicago, low SES applicants with high GPAs are entitled to good support from the school system to apply.

At the rate the DCPS is going in muddying the waters with Walls admissions, nobody should be surprised if the District is sued. Boston Latin (7th-12th grades) was sued in the late 1990s by a white family with a 6th grader who was rejected despite a higher exam score than many successful minority applicants. The result was a settlement agreement forcing Boston to scrap a 30% minority admissions set-aside/quota.

PP here and +1. NYC is more cautionary shooting for the highest bar and then having it politicized and entrenched however problematic. Similar could be said of TJHSST prior to dropping test (still rigorous and requires successful completion of advanced courses as prereq). Chicago is a far better model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM won’t like my post, but I am a teacher who does the interviews. I’m not defending two questions or three minutes or whatever, but I can tell you that after 10 years of being at the school, it is possible to see within ten minutes who is a good fit. Parent interview portion does not factor into the score except to help students who appear to have strong family support. However, with gpa inflation the past two years due to WS plus the ban on getting parcc scores plus random charter schools who have weird report cards, it is very difficult to assess candidates, honestly.

I would support an application ranking system with no interview, just lottery of qualified students. I hate interview days and would rather be teaching.

Thanks. What written records are available? What kind of information could we get with a FOIA request?

This was posted earlier. Basically:

Keep your request simple. Ask for all "records" that contain:
- the formal process by which Walls candidates were ranked
- all guidance for interviewers on how questions they were to ask and how they were to rate candidates
- all records that provides training for interviewers
- all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie.
Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

There are some exceptions for what has to be disclosed but this is the type of information that has to be released because it's of public interest. If it exists, they will have to provide it. It is likely it doesn't exist and it will show it was capricious.

Thanks, but I asking the SWW teacher who is part of the process, not you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM won’t like my post, but I am a teacher who does the interviews. I’m not defending two questions or three minutes or whatever, but I can tell you that after 10 years of being at the school, it is possible to see within ten minutes who is a good fit. Parent interview portion does not factor into the score except to help students who appear to have strong family support. However, with gpa inflation the past two years due to WS plus the ban on getting parcc scores plus random charter schools who have weird report cards, it is very difficult to assess candidates, honestly.

I would support an application ranking system with no interview, just lottery of qualified students. I hate interview days and would rather be teaching.

Thanks. What written records are available? What kind of information could we get with a FOIA request?

This was posted earlier. Basically:

Keep your request simple. Ask for all "records" that contain:
- the formal process by which Walls candidates were ranked
- all guidance for interviewers on how questions they were to ask and how they were to rate candidates
- all records that provides training for interviewers
- all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie.
Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

There are some exceptions for what has to be disclosed but this is the type of information that has to be released because it's of public interest. If it exists, they will have to provide it. It is likely it doesn't exist and it will show it was capricious.

Thanks, but I asking the SWW teacher who is part of the process, not you.

That's not how publicly disclosable information works. This is why FOIA exists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM won’t like my post, but I am a teacher who does the interviews. I’m not defending two questions or three minutes or whatever, but I can tell you that after 10 years of being at the school, it is possible to see within ten minutes who is a good fit. Parent interview portion does not factor into the score except to help students who appear to have strong family support. However, with gpa inflation the past two years due to WS plus the ban on getting parcc scores plus random charter schools who have weird report cards, it is very difficult to assess candidates, honestly.

I would support an application ranking system with no interview, just lottery of qualified students. I hate interview days and would rather be teaching.

Thanks. What written records are available? What kind of information could we get with a FOIA request?

This was posted earlier. Basically:

Keep your request simple. Ask for all "records" that contain:
- the formal process by which Walls candidates were ranked
- all guidance for interviewers on how questions they were to ask and how they were to rate candidates
- all records that provides training for interviewers
- all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie.
Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

There are some exceptions for what has to be disclosed but this is the type of information that has to be released because it's of public interest. If it exists, they will have to provide it. It is likely it doesn't exist and it will show it was capricious.

Thanks, but I asking the SWW teacher who is part of the process, not you.

Um, yeah... pretty sure that SWW teacher isn't going to post anything else after he/she revealed that: 1) DCPS's GPAs can't tell you much; 2) SWW thinks they can tell everything they need to know about "fit" from a 10 minute interview; and 3) the parent interview doesn't count...unless it does. Oops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM won’t like my post, but I am a teacher who does the interviews. I’m not defending two questions or three minutes or whatever, but I can tell you that after 10 years of being at the school, it is possible to see within ten minutes who is a good fit. Parent interview portion does not factor into the score except to help students who appear to have strong family support. However, with gpa inflation the past two years due to WS plus the ban on getting parcc scores plus random charter schools who have weird report cards, it is very difficult to assess candidates, honestly.

I would support an application ranking system with no interview, just lottery of qualified students. I hate interview days and would rather be teaching.

Thanks. What written records are available? What kind of information could we get with a FOIA request?

This was posted earlier. Basically:

Keep your request simple. Ask for all "records" that contain:
- the formal process by which Walls candidates were ranked
- all guidance for interviewers on what questions they were to ask and how they were to rate candidates
- all records that provides training for interviewers
- all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie.
Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

There are some exceptions for what has to be disclosed but this is the type of information that has to be released because it's of public interest. If it exists, they will have to provide it. It is likely it doesn't exist and it will show it was capricious.

Thanks, but I asking the SWW teacher who is part of the process, not you.

Teachers are not going to be experts on federal records or FOIA. Federal records are very broad...they include "all recorded information, regardless of form or characteristics, made or received by a Federal agency under Federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business." Not all federal records have to be disclosed but most do (exceptions have to do with things that would jeopardize privacy or things involving criminal cases/privilege). You wouldn't be able to FOIA the interview notes on a specific student but you should be able to get anything about the Walls selection policy. The person who posted the above list is on the right track.

https://dc.gov/page/freedom-information-act-foia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM won’t like my post, but I am a teacher who does the interviews. I’m not defending two questions or three minutes or whatever, but I can tell you that after 10 years of being at the school, it is possible to see within ten minutes who is a good fit. Parent interview portion does not factor into the score except to help students who appear to have strong family support. However, with gpa inflation the past two years due to WS plus the ban on getting parcc scores plus random charter schools who have weird report cards, it is very difficult to assess candidates, honestly.

I would support an application ranking system with no interview, just lottery of qualified students. I hate interview days and would rather be teaching.

Thanks. What written records are available? What kind of information could we get with a FOIA request?

This was posted earlier. Basically:

Keep your request simple. Ask for all "records" that contain:
- the formal process by which Walls candidates were ranked
- all guidance for interviewers on what questions they were to ask and how they were to rate candidates
- all records that provides training for interviewers
- all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie.
Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

There are some exceptions for what has to be disclosed but this is the type of information that has to be released because it's of public interest. If it exists, they will have to provide it. It is likely it doesn't exist and it will show it was capricious.

Thanks, but I asking the SWW teacher who is part of the process, not you.

Teachers are not going to be experts on federal records or FOIA. Federal records are very broad...they include "all recorded information, regardless of form or characteristics, made or received by a Federal agency under Federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business." Not all federal records have to be disclosed but most do (exceptions have to do with things that would jeopardize privacy or things involving criminal cases/privilege). You wouldn't be able to FOIA the interview notes on a specific student but you should be able to get anything about the Walls selection policy. The person who posted the above list is on the right track.

https://dc.gov/page/freedom-information-act-foia

Right...and when submitting, you have to specify the dates. And it's illegal to destroy or fabricate federal records. So they can't delete anything (including emails) or create something that did not exist during the window that you're interested in without facing criminal liability.

[Anonymous]

This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Well, the Walls teachers could tell in that 90 seconds that he wouldn't be a good "fit".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Let me guess, your kid is white? What a disgrace, PP.

I hope a parent like you sues DCPS over shambolic Walls admissions one of these years. You'd obviously have a decent case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

I hope you this just screams $$$$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Well, the Walls teachers could tell in that 90 seconds that he wouldn't be a good "fit".

apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

I hope you this just screams $$$$$.

Huh? there are plenty of travel athletes around here who are not wealthy. Every program has scholarships dollars. I have coworkers with incomes of under $50K who have kids who play travel sports.

Anyway, completely besides the point as Walls did not ask anything about my kid. They had no idea if he was an athlete or not.

[Anonymous]

The Walls test was not meant to be particularly hard. The goal was to ensure applying students were at grade level or above. Questions tested 8th grade content

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.