Reminder about the purpose of the Kids with Special Needs Forum

[Anonymous]

I don’t know how we can have a lovely, helpful SN forum for 15 years and then all of a sudden one or two posters have to argue and argue and be such PITAs over and over again. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know how we can have a lovely, helpful SN forum for 15 years and then all of a sudden one or two posters have to argue and argue and be such PITAs over and over again. Just stop.

It's not all of a sudden. I saw it when I first started participating here four years ago. It's just gotten worse lately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, a big part of the problem that you don’t and shouldn’t have to frankly understand in the underlying ongoing issues between the “MERLD” parents and their seeming foes, usually parents of children with autism, is that there are longstanding and popular Facebook groups dedicated to avoiding an autism diagnosis and that autism is overdoagnosed. Many of these parents have sought specific labels other than autism. They are very restrictive in the views that are allowed to be presented in the Facebook groups. No mention can be made of ABA or suggestions that something may in fact be autism. Those groups are dedicated to the idea that children grow out of these MERLD issues and that autism is far more serious and debilitating.

Perhaps that may give you some insight as to how this plays out here. The real problem many of the MERLD parents have is with the DSM. They wouldn’t even agree that many of the kids who have been diagnosed with autism by professionals have autism. They dispute the legitimacy of the diagnosis other than in rare cases. This is the crux of the real dispute playing out here but it only gets represented in agenda driven posts like, see an slp rather than get a full neuropsychology, etc. it’s subtle - not to us, but to an outside observer - but it’s the pushing of an agenda and it’s often hugely and horribly inappropriate and unhelpful for individual parents because it’s a red herring. I understand you can’t regulate this but I’m sick of every post being dominated hey these posters who are frankly on a crusade, so I’m not going to use this forum anymore.

And I can assure you that the most frequent MERLD posters on here are very active in those facebook groups, where discussion of autism is verboten. Limiting it here also - which is what they are interpreting this to mean - is not a good idea. This is a lot like the anti-vax posters. I believe in free speech, but pushing agendas om vulnerable and scared parents - you must go the Tennesse! ABA will ruin your child! - ugh. It is really upsetting. And BTW, my kid doesn't even have autism.

How can you assure that? You clearly don't understand language disorders and no, we aren't all on the facebook groups. I am not. I was on for a few months, met and talked to some of the posters here who were really helpful when I needed the support and then left years ago. You are welcome to check my facebook group, my computer, etc. and see what i am active on or not.

What is you real hostility to language disorders?

Your description of everything you listed is completely wrong with many of us. You are too busy pushing your agenda.

You don't believe in free speech for everyone, just your free speech.

Most providers don't recommend a neuropsych until age six or seven as kids can catch up, progress or have completely different needs. The focus is on therapies and early intervention. We were told by our providers that insurance would pay at age 7, if they determined it was necessary. They key is if they determined it necessary.

For some kids, they outgrow language disorders. For some kids, it becomes pretty mild and they learn to adapt and cope with it. For some kids, its a life long issue. There is no one size fits all for language disorders or ASD but to lump them together makes no sense as the needs are very different. But, if it makes you feel better, sure, all our kids have ASD.

You choose to get a neuropsych for your child as that was the best evaluation for your child's needs. That makes sense. We choose the evaluations and therapies that make most sense for our kids and often recommended by our providers. It also makes sense for some of us to get second opinions for a variety of reasons, including rule in or rule out of ASD. Clearly you got a second opinion, if not multiple opinions. Why is it ok for you to do it, but not the rest of us?

Since you love to advocate your opinions, why don't you become a advocate and not charge families? Many are tapped out financially paying for services so having someone to go to to get a proper IEP and school placements would be great. Lots of ways to use your talent and knowledge without being a bully, abusive or demeaning to other families.

Actually, my child has a language disorder among other issues. So wildly off base in all regards. I have no idea what you are going on about, honestly, but you clearly are one of the posters I was talking about that derails with the tired old MERLD agenda.

This isn't very believable. If your child doesn't have autism, why do you insist on mentioning autism to everyone? Why do you disparage other parents with language disorders?

You are very much the problem, as you well know. My chick doesn’t have autism and I don’t “push” autism diagnoses. Many of his friends do have ASD diagnoses and are actually doing very well . My child has epilepsy and related issues. One of which is language. I don’t mention autism to “everyone”. I also don’t mention epilepsy. But if it fits, I do. Look; the issue is your homogenous view of these diagnoses and what they mean. You are just way too hung up here. For example, my friend has a child with ASD who is mainstreamed and is very intelligent and his issues are complicated socially. Another has a child with epilepsy who has ID, and another had a child with epilepsy who is otherwise NT. Kids with dyslexia and apraxia are often very successful in mainstream environments. Your use of the term “language disorder” kids and ASD as a pejorative is the issue, it’s not a cloak. It’s not even a deceptive term. This is why you derail threads with your narrow and literal thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, a big part of the problem that you don’t and shouldn’t have to frankly understand in the underlying ongoing issues between the “MERLD” parents and their seeming foes, usually parents of children with autism, is that there are longstanding and popular Facebook groups dedicated to avoiding an autism diagnosis and that autism is overdoagnosed. Many of these parents have sought specific labels other than autism. They are very restrictive in the views that are allowed to be presented in the Facebook groups. No mention can be made of ABA or suggestions that something may in fact be autism. Those groups are dedicated to the idea that children grow out of these MERLD issues and that autism is far more serious and debilitating.

Perhaps that may give you some insight as to how this plays out here. The real problem many of the MERLD parents have is with the DSM. They wouldn’t even agree that many of the kids who have been diagnosed with autism by professionals have autism. They dispute the legitimacy of the diagnosis other than in rare cases. This is the crux of the real dispute playing out here but it only gets represented in agenda driven posts like, see an slp rather than get a full neuropsychology, etc. it’s subtle - not to us, but to an outside observer - but it’s the pushing of an agenda and it’s often hugely and horribly inappropriate and unhelpful for individual parents because it’s a red herring. I understand you can’t regulate this but I’m sick of every post being dominated hey these posters who are frankly on a crusade, so I’m not going to use this forum anymore.

And I can assure you that the most frequent MERLD posters on here are very active in those facebook groups, where discussion of autism is verboten. Limiting it here also - which is what they are interpreting this to mean - is not a good idea. This is a lot like the anti-vax posters. I believe in free speech, but pushing agendas om vulnerable and scared parents - you must go the Tennesse! ABA will ruin your child! - ugh. It is really upsetting. And BTW, my kid doesn't even have autism.

How can you assure that? You clearly don't understand language disorders and no, we aren't all on the facebook groups. I am not. I was on for a few months, met and talked to some of the posters here who were really helpful when I needed the support and then left years ago. You are welcome to check my facebook group, my computer, etc. and see what i am active on or not.

What is you real hostility to language disorders?

Your description of everything you listed is completely wrong with many of us. You are too busy pushing your agenda.

You don't believe in free speech for everyone, just your free speech.

Most providers don't recommend a neuropsych until age six or seven as kids can catch up, progress or have completely different needs. The focus is on therapies and early intervention. We were told by our providers that insurance would pay at age 7, if they determined it was necessary. They key is if they determined it necessary.

For some kids, they outgrow language disorders. For some kids, it becomes pretty mild and they learn to adapt and cope with it. For some kids, its a life long issue. There is no one size fits all for language disorders or ASD but to lump them together makes no sense as the needs are very different. But, if it makes you feel better, sure, all our kids have ASD.

You choose to get a neuropsych for your child as that was the best evaluation for your child's needs. That makes sense. We choose the evaluations and therapies that make most sense for our kids and often recommended by our providers. It also makes sense for some of us to get second opinions for a variety of reasons, including rule in or rule out of ASD. Clearly you got a second opinion, if not multiple opinions. Why is it ok for you to do it, but not the rest of us?

Since you love to advocate your opinions, why don't you become a advocate and not charge families? Many are tapped out financially paying for services so having someone to go to to get a proper IEP and school placements would be great. Lots of ways to use your talent and knowledge without being a bully, abusive or demeaning to other families.

Actually, my child has a language disorder among other issues. So wildly off base in all regards. I have no idea what you are going on about, honestly, but you clearly are one of the posters I was talking about that derails with the tired old MERLD agenda.

This isn't very believable. If your child doesn't have autism, why do you insist on mentioning autism to everyone? Why do you disparage other parents with language disorders?

You are very much the problem, as you well know. My chick doesn’t have autism and I don’t “push” autism diagnoses. Many of his friends do have ASD diagnoses and are actually doing very well . My child has epilepsy and related issues. One of which is language. I don’t mention autism to “everyone”. I also don’t mention epilepsy. But if it fits, I do. Look; the issue is your homogenous view of these diagnoses and what they mean. You are just way too hung up here. For example, my friend has a child with ASD who is mainstreamed and is very intelligent and his issues are complicated socially. Another has a child with epilepsy who has ID, and another had a child with epilepsy who is otherwise NT. Kids with dyslexia and apraxia are often very successful in mainstream environments. Your use of the term “language disorder” kids and ASD as a pejorative is the issue, it’s not a cloak. It’s not even a deceptive term. This is why you derail threads with your narrow and literal thinking.

Both of you and this entire forum would be better off if you two just ignored each other. Neither of you will ever convince the other. So just give it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, a big part of the problem that you don’t and shouldn’t have to frankly understand in the underlying ongoing issues between the “MERLD” parents and their seeming foes, usually parents of children with autism, is that there are longstanding and popular Facebook groups dedicated to avoiding an autism diagnosis and that autism is overdoagnosed. Many of these parents have sought specific labels other than autism. They are very restrictive in the views that are allowed to be presented in the Facebook groups. No mention can be made of ABA or suggestions that something may in fact be autism. Those groups are dedicated to the idea that children grow out of these MERLD issues and that autism is far more serious and debilitating.

Perhaps that may give you some insight as to how this plays out here. The real problem many of the MERLD parents have is with the DSM. They wouldn’t even agree that many of the kids who have been diagnosed with autism by professionals have autism. They dispute the legitimacy of the diagnosis other than in rare cases. This is the crux of the real dispute playing out here but it only gets represented in agenda driven posts like, see an slp rather than get a full neuropsychology, etc. it’s subtle - not to us, but to an outside observer - but it’s the pushing of an agenda and it’s often hugely and horribly inappropriate and unhelpful for individual parents because it’s a red herring. I understand you can’t regulate this but I’m sick of every post being dominated hey these posters who are frankly on a crusade, so I’m not going to use this forum anymore.

And I can assure you that the most frequent MERLD posters on here are very active in those facebook groups, where discussion of autism is verboten. Limiting it here also - which is what they are interpreting this to mean - is not a good idea. This is a lot like the anti-vax posters. I believe in free speech, but pushing agendas om vulnerable and scared parents - you must go the Tennesse! ABA will ruin your child! - ugh. It is really upsetting. And BTW, my kid doesn't even have autism.

How can you assure that? You clearly don't understand language disorders and no, we aren't all on the facebook groups. I am not. I was on for a few months, met and talked to some of the posters here who were really helpful when I needed the support and then left years ago. You are welcome to check my facebook group, my computer, etc. and see what i am active on or not.

What is you real hostility to language disorders?

Your description of everything you listed is completely wrong with many of us. You are too busy pushing your agenda.

You don't believe in free speech for everyone, just your free speech.

Most providers don't recommend a neuropsych until age six or seven as kids can catch up, progress or have completely different needs. The focus is on therapies and early intervention. We were told by our providers that insurance would pay at age 7, if they determined it was necessary. They key is if they determined it necessary.

For some kids, they outgrow language disorders. For some kids, it becomes pretty mild and they learn to adapt and cope with it. For some kids, its a life long issue. There is no one size fits all for language disorders or ASD but to lump them together makes no sense as the needs are very different. But, if it makes you feel better, sure, all our kids have ASD.

You choose to get a neuropsych for your child as that was the best evaluation for your child's needs. That makes sense. We choose the evaluations and therapies that make most sense for our kids and often recommended by our providers. It also makes sense for some of us to get second opinions for a variety of reasons, including rule in or rule out of ASD. Clearly you got a second opinion, if not multiple opinions. Why is it ok for you to do it, but not the rest of us?

Since you love to advocate your opinions, why don't you become a advocate and not charge families? Many are tapped out financially paying for services so having someone to go to to get a proper IEP and school placements would be great. Lots of ways to use your talent and knowledge without being a bully, abusive or demeaning to other families.

Actually, my child has a language disorder among other issues. So wildly off base in all regards. I have no idea what you are going on about, honestly, but you clearly are one of the posters I was talking about that derails with the tired old MERLD agenda.

This isn't very believable. If your child doesn't have autism, why do you insist on mentioning autism to everyone? Why do you disparage other parents with language disorders?

You are very much the problem, as you well know. My chick doesn’t have autism and I don’t “push” autism diagnoses. Many of his friends do have ASD diagnoses and are actually doing very well . My child has epilepsy and related issues. One of which is language. I don’t mention autism to “everyone”. I also don’t mention epilepsy. But if it fits, I do. Look; the issue is your homogenous view of these diagnoses and what they mean. You are just way too hung up here. For example, my friend has a child with ASD who is mainstreamed and is very intelligent and his issues are complicated socially. Another has a child with epilepsy who has ID, and another had a child with epilepsy who is otherwise NT. Kids with dyslexia and apraxia are often very successful in mainstream environments. Your use of the term “language disorder” kids and ASD as a pejorative is the issue, it’s not a cloak. It’s not even a deceptive term. This is why you derail threads with your narrow and literal thinking.

Both of you and this entire forum would be better off if you two just ignored each other. Neither of you will ever convince the other. So just give it up.

Its not just two posters. Its multiple posts but the endless debates are tiring and take away from supporting each other. I doubt this poster is part of the ongoing debates.

[Anonymous]

Personally I think what Jeff wants is crystal clear. Enough.

[Anonymous]

I cannot believe that the posters arguing back and forth on this thread, yet again derailing it, are doing the EXACT thing Jeff warned them about on this very thread. If you cannot even control yourselves on a thread that specifically warns that you will be kicked off this site for doing exactly this if you continue, there really is no hope for you controlling yourselves.

[Anonymous]

This thread should go on forever, consuming the time of the stubborn and pedantic few and letting the rest of the forum flourish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread should go on forever, consuming the time of the stubborn and pedantic few and letting the rest of the forum flourish.

Not a bad idea. If we keep them arguing here, they’ll have less time to ruin the other threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fact four: many don’t GAF if Auditory Processing Disorder is a diagnosis in the DSM-V.

Perhaps. But insurance companies and school systems care, as they won’t recognize and provide services for conditions that aren’t in the DSM-V.

I don’t personally think that noting this is hijacking a thread or unhelpful.

I'm the OP of the APD thread, and this information right here would've been VERY useful! I don't think that was said once. Maybe it was "assumed" I knew it? Well that isn't the case. This would've been FAR more useful than repeatedly expressing APD doesn't exist or that my child has autism. Relevant information is absolutely welcome, but just be a decent human being.

Anonymous wrote:
DP, and maybe I am wrong, but I seriously doubt that Jeff would delete a post that said: Hey, just a heads up from my experience, you might have a hard time getting insurance coverage for a visit because APD isn't in the DSM-V.

That was not the tone of the posts in that thread, through.

No, that was not expressed in any manner, and again, would've been extremely useful! It's funny I happened to read this thread and find it out here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread should go on forever, consuming the time of the stubborn and pedantic few and letting the rest of the forum flourish.

Not a bad idea. If we keep them arguing here, they’ll have less time to ruin the other threads.

The fact that Jeff hasn't checked back in makes me think that is the plan. Also maybe data gathering on who the really annoying posters are. Smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fact four: many don’t GAF if Auditory Processing Disorder is a diagnosis in the DSM-V.

Perhaps. But insurance companies and school systems care, as they won’t recognize and provide services for conditions that aren’t in the DSM-V.

I don’t personally think that noting this is hijacking a thread or unhelpful.

I'm the OP of the APD thread, and this information right here would've been VERY useful! I don't think that was said once. Maybe it was "assumed" I knew it? Well that isn't the case. This would've been FAR more useful than repeatedly expressing APD doesn't exist or that my child has autism. Relevant information is absolutely welcome, but just be a decent human being.

Anonymous wrote:
DP, and maybe I am wrong, but I seriously doubt that Jeff would delete a post that said: Hey, just a heads up from my experience, you might have a hard time getting insurance coverage for a visit because APD isn't in the DSM-V.

That was not the tone of the posts in that thread, through.

No, that was not expressed in any manner, and again, would've been extremely useful! It's funny I happened to read this thread and find it out here!

As a special educator who has been to man many eligibility determination meetings the above is wrong. School systems do not use the DSM in determining funding and services. One of the big issues that families of kids with ASD and related conditions face is that the IDEA definitions for Autism aren't the same as the DSM ones, and so there are kids who meet criteria for one and not the other.

Now, in order for a kid with APD to get special ed services, you need to prove that they fit into one of the IDEA categories, just like you would for a kid with ADHD, or dyslexia, epilepsy, or many other specific diagnoses that cause kids to qualify under broader eligibility categories like OHI or SLD. But kids with APD absolutely can get services.

In addition, I would point out that APD is a diagnosis supported by ASHA, an organization that tends to be pretty conservative in what it endorses.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP immediately above this, and I wanted to point out that vision impairment and hearing impairment are also not in the DSM, and yet the school system and insurance companies absolutely address both of those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fact four: many don’t GAF if Auditory Processing Disorder is a diagnosis in the DSM-V.

Perhaps. But insurance companies and school systems care, as they won’t recognize and provide services for conditions that aren’t in the DSM-V.

I don’t personally think that noting this is hijacking a thread or unhelpful.

I'm the OP of the APD thread, and this information right here would've been VERY useful! I don't think that was said once. Maybe it was "assumed" I knew it? Well that isn't the case. This would've been FAR more useful than repeatedly expressing APD doesn't exist or that my child has autism. Relevant information is absolutely welcome, but just be a decent human being.

Anonymous wrote:
DP, and maybe I am wrong, but I seriously doubt that Jeff would delete a post that said: Hey, just a heads up from my experience, you might have a hard time getting insurance coverage for a visit because APD isn't in the DSM-V.

That was not the tone of the posts in that thread, through.

No, that was not expressed in any manner, and again, would've been extremely useful! It's funny I happened to read this thread and find it out here!

As a special educator who has been to man many eligibility determination meetings the above is wrong. School systems do not use the DSM in determining funding and services. One of the big issues that families of kids with ASD and related conditions face is that the IDEA definitions for Autism aren't the same as the DSM ones, and so there are kids who meet criteria for one and not the other.

Now, in order for a kid with APD to get special ed services, you need to prove that they fit into one of the IDEA categories, just like you would for a kid with ADHD, or dyslexia, epilepsy, or many other specific diagnoses that cause kids to qualify under broader eligibility categories like OHI or SLD. But kids with APD absolutely can get services.

In addition, I would point out that APD is a diagnosis supported by ASHA, an organization that tends to be pretty conservative in what it endorses.

As a practical matter, though, the IEP accommodations don't turn on the IEP label. So the APD OP shouldn't feel like she "has" to get the APD dx in order to get APD accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP immediately above this, and I wanted to point out that vision impairment and hearing impairment are also not in the DSM, and yet the school system and insurance companies absolutely address both of those.

Insurance reimbursement goes through ICD codes, not DSM dx. And insurance companies reimburse services, not diagnoses, anyway, so even if something is in the DSM does not mean that you're going to get any service for that dx covered. The insurance company may consider it medically unnecessary.