Insider Perspectives from a Highly Selective Admissions Office

[Anonymous]

I am Asian (Korean-American adoptee) and my kids are bi-racial (DH is white non-hispanic). Based on the higher test score expectations for Asian students, should my kids not check the box when they apply as Asian?

[Anonymous]

I am only the parent of an elementary schooler and need help with all the abbreviations. LOR? URM? Help me someone?

[Anonymous]

LOR = Letters of recommendation, URM=under-represented minorities, UMC=upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian (Korean-American adoptee) and my kids are bi-racial (DH is white non-hispanic). Based on the higher test score expectations for Asian students, should my kids not check the box when they apply as Asian?

As a parent of an adopted Korean child, I think it is very sad that our societ and in this instance, college admissions, creates a situation where people have to deny a part of their heritage and play the race game to gain advantage. I don't blame you for playing the odds, but it is really sick that we have to do so.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:^^ Just because Vandy and Williams reported lower ranges for their new SATs than for the old SATs and ACTs doesn't mean that the concordances are incorrect. We don't know how many people are in each reported group, and what the composition of each group is. For example, many stronger students may have skipped the new SAT, so that group is weaker than average. Also, many kids submit a variety of tests (new SAT, old SAT, ACT), in which case the colleges use the new SAT only if it is the strongest score according to the concordances.

Many weaker students may have also skipped the new SAT in favor of the old, knowing they had to rely on its large volume of old SAT pre-existing prep materials as a crutch. That would offset any stronger students who made the same choice.

That would require huge numbers of weak students to complete their old SAT testing by January of their junior year and then not bother with the new SAT or ACT. Pretzel logic. It almost sounds like your kid got a low score on the new SAT and you are praying the concordances aren't valid.

You can look at the SAT scores at lots of schools and see that the new SAT skews higher. Here's one example: http://admissions.psu.edu/apply/statistics/

No, that data is for the class of 2020. Students taking the new SAT are class of 2021. Keep trying.

You might want to see someone for your OCD...give it a rest already.

Totally agree. What difference does his make seriously?

Sucks to be wrong, doesn't it?

. Np-- how powerless do you feel in your real life to keep beating this dead horse? It is really sad and pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I agree the push to specialize is harmful, and for that I place full blame on the colleges. Honestly, I think little weight should be given to extracurriculars."

I think the thing people forget is that the point of specializing is NOT to become a world expert and then fight to avoid ever learning a new subject.

The point of specializing is learning to become good at SOMETHING in HS so that in college and in grad school and every few years after you have an idea what to do next to find your next project and know how the process of becoming good at something works.

If you read this: http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats

You begin to get the idea that the focus on extracurriculars in admissions is to make sure that students have NOT achieved their high grades and test scores by studying around the clock.

It may be a chicken and egg situation, but I don't think you can blame the colleges for trying to find students who have talents other than their ability to delay gratification.

The push to specialize does nothing but stifle creativity, dampers the opportunity to try new things--perhaps setting up a dynamic where someone misses the change to do what s/he would be really good and love and perhaps even change humanity. 99.9% of high school kids doesn't have a true passion. They simply do not have the life experience. They end up getting pigeonholed too early and potential doors get closed. The same thing happens in athletics. If you don't start soccer at 6, you are off track. Never mind that a great soccer play could develop in the later years or that early soccer player could have ended up be a world champion in another sport. Opportunities lost and potential devalued.

There is no push to specialize. Except maybe from clueless parents. There's a desire (among a handful of the hardest-to-get-into schools -- we're not talking about colleges generally) to accept kids who show initiative, ambition, determination, and who seem to have demonstrated that, through these traits, they are able to achieve something impressive. Yes, most kids haven't done that. And, yes, the fact that they haven't done that by 17 or 18 certainly does NOT mean that they never will. But some kids have, and if a school has the luxury of choice, there's nothing wrong with favoring those kids in the admissions process. Also, the fact that, as a kid you are very good at one thing, doesn't mean you can't or won't be good at something different later. Knowing what it takes to become really good at something (and/or understanding what excellence looks like) is useful even if your interests change.

99.9% of HS kids aren't headed to HYPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian (Korean-American adoptee) and my kids are bi-racial (DH is white non-hispanic). Based on the higher test score expectations for Asian students, should my kids not check the box when they apply as Asian?

Your children should do what they want. But, it shouldn't be because they think checking Asian will harm their admissions chances. At any Ivy, the majority of perfect SAT scoring valedictorians will be rejected. Whether they disown being part Asian or not really doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for taking the time to post this Q&A, it has been extremely informative. I'm wondering what advice would you give to the parents of a kid who has extremely strong academic credentials, but does not show a demonstrated passion? My daughter is in 7th grade, and from how she is doing so far, I would expect she would be near valedictorian and have very high SAT scores. However, she is interested in everything. She is equally strong in STEM as she is in humanities/social sciences. When asked what she wants to do as a career, she'll say she doesn't know, so many things are interesting to her. Her activities are all over the place - soccer, theater, art, computers. I can easily see where she will be the dreaded "well-rounded" applicant who doesn't stand out to admission offers. And we can't be comforted by the notion that she will be accepted to a strong school somewhere as long as she casts her net wide enough. Our budget only allows for instate colleges. So basically if she doesn't get into the two top schools, she will have to settle for a school that is academically far beneath what she theoretically "should" be able to attend. From a purely strategic perspective, should we try to encourage her to "specialize" in a certain area, so she will stand a greater chance of standing out to the admission officers?

My honest advice for you is to to close the college and university forum and not open it again until your DD is midway through freshman year. Bye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian (Korean-American adoptee) and my kids are bi-racial (DH is white non-hispanic). Based on the higher test score expectations for Asian students, should my kids not check the box when they apply as Asian?

Your children should do what they want. But, it shouldn't be because they think checking Asian will harm their admissions chances. At any Ivy, the majority of perfect SAT scoring valedictorians will be rejected. Whether they disown being part Asian or not really doesn't matter.

You are right about the rejections but you wrong that it isn't harder for asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for taking the time to post this Q&A, it has been extremely informative. I'm wondering what advice would you give to the parents of a kid who has extremely strong academic credentials, but does not show a demonstrated passion? My daughter is in 7th grade, and from how she is doing so far, I would expect she would be near valedictorian and have very high SAT scores. However, she is interested in everything. She is equally strong in STEM as she is in humanities/social sciences. When asked what she wants to do as a career, she'll say she doesn't know, so many things are interesting to her. Her activities are all over the place - soccer, theater, art, computers. I can easily see where she will be the dreaded "well-rounded" applicant who doesn't stand out to admission offers. And we can't be comforted by the notion that she will be accepted to a strong school somewhere as long as she casts her net wide enough. Our budget only allows for instate colleges. So basically if she doesn't get into the two top schools, she will have to settle for a school that is academically far beneath what she theoretically "should" be able to attend. From a purely strategic perspective, should we try to encourage her to "specialize" in a certain area, so she will stand a greater chance of standing out to the admission officers?

My honest advice for you is to to close the college and university forum and not open it again until your DD is midway through freshman year. Bye.

Says the person whose budget probably doesn't limit them to only in state publics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for taking the time to post this Q&A, it has been extremely informative. I'm wondering what advice would you give to the parents of a kid who has extremely strong academic credentials, but does not show a demonstrated passion? My daughter is in 7th grade, and from how she is doing so far, I would expect she would be near valedictorian and have very high SAT scores. However, she is interested in everything. She is equally strong in STEM as she is in humanities/social sciences. When asked what she wants to do as a career, she'll say she doesn't know, so many things are interesting to her. Her activities are all over the place - soccer, theater, art, computers. I can easily see where she will be the dreaded "well-rounded" applicant who doesn't stand out to admission offers. And we can't be comforted by the notion that she will be accepted to a strong school somewhere as long as she casts her net wide enough. Our budget only allows for instate colleges. So basically if she doesn't get into the two top schools, she will have to settle for a school that is academically far beneath what she theoretically "should" be able to attend. From a purely strategic perspective, should we try to encourage her to "specialize" in a certain area, so she will stand a greater chance of standing out to the admission officers?

My honest advice for you is to to close the college and university forum and not open it again until your DD is midway through freshman year. Bye.

Says the person whose budget probably doesn't limit them to only in state publics.

My parents limited me to in-state schools so I went to the state flagship, practically flunked out, quit, sat out for 3 years... went back to a different school, did very well - long story short, I got my PhD and a great career.
I would suggest that the PP at least LOOK at a few other schools and focus on finding a good fit. There's merit aid out there and the PP may be surprised that a state school may not be the best bargain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian (Korean-American adoptee) and my kids are bi-racial (DH is white non-hispanic). Based on the higher test score expectations for Asian students, should my kids not check the box when they apply as Asian?

Your children should do what they want. But, it shouldn't be because they think checking Asian will harm their admissions chances. At any Ivy, the majority of perfect SAT scoring valedictorians will be rejected. Whether they disown being part Asian or not really doesn't matter.

You are right about the rejections but you wrong that it isn't harder for asians.

+1. We are also a bi-racial family, half-Asian, half-white, and last name is European. Odds are favorable for whites over Asians. However, I think that by the time my kids apply to college there will be mixed-race categories to check off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian (Korean-American adoptee) and my kids are bi-racial (DH is white non-hispanic). Based on the higher test score expectations for Asian students, should my kids not check the box when they apply as Asian?

As a parent of an adopted Korean child, I think it is very sad that our societ and in this instance, college admissions, creates a situation where people have to deny a part of their heritage and play the race game to gain advantage. I don't blame you for playing the odds, but it is really sick that we have to do so.

I am the PP and I am not "playing the odds." My kids are really little, lol. And I don't even know if my kids would apply to the type of schools where being Asian of any percentage would be a disadvantage numbers-wise. But I have always felt terrible when confronted with these boxes because culturally I am not Asian or even Asian-American if that means having family of the same race. When I applied to college back in the day, I left my race blank because I didn't feel like I fit into one of the boxes. I would not encourage my kids to lie on an application for their race, but I am sad that I am raising them like white kids but they will be disadvantaged in the race category like Asian kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOR = Letters of recommendation, URM=under-represented minorities, UMC=upper middle class.

What about HYPMS?

[Anonymous]

Lots of kids are just making up stuff about extra curricular and community activities. Do you make any attempt to verify these outrageous claims of "I started a new non profit.."