Who do I write to to advocate that Yu Ying join the common lottery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's misguided to think it's just an "easy A" for "native speakers" - Even "native speakers" can benefit from a language program. I grew up on the Texas border and my Spanish class was full of native speakers - but many of them still had issues with grammar and other aspects of the language. Just because it's spoken at home doesn't necessarily mean there is appropriate fluency and proficiency.

Sure they can benefit but putting native speakers into the same class as non-native speakers doesn't serve either group. For all intents and purposes, the upper grade Mandarin classes in MoCo serve as an "easy A" for native speakers. Since grades are on a curve, it's never an "A" for non-native speakers which is a consideration for what you want to appear on your transcript for college admissions.

Why wouldn't it be a benefit? Good for interaction between students. Maybe an "easy A" but so what?

All the non-native speakers drop the class b/c having native speakers in the class skews the grade curve so there is no interaction. If you look at the higher grades in MoCo, it's filled with native speakers but few/none non-native speakers.

Ridiculous. Tax payer support for kids who don't need to learn the language...

Why skew the grade that way? They could just as well curve it so that the highest non-native-speaker is what constitutes an "A". For the native-speakers, if they get an "easy A" out of it, so what? Believe me, colleges are bright enough to figure out that an A in Mandarin from a kid with the surname of Zhang is not going to be as impressive as an A in Mandarin from a kid with the surname of Mendez or O'Neill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's misguided to think it's just an "easy A" for "native speakers" - Even "native speakers" can benefit from a language program. I grew up on the Texas border and my Spanish class was full of native speakers - but many of them still had issues with grammar and other aspects of the language. Just because it's spoken at home doesn't necessarily mean there is appropriate fluency and proficiency.

Sure they can benefit but putting native speakers into the same class as non-native speakers doesn't serve either group. For all intents and purposes, the upper grade Mandarin classes in MoCo serve as an "easy A" for native speakers. Since grades are on a curve, it's never an "A" for non-native speakers which is a consideration for what you want to appear on your transcript for college admissions.

Why wouldn't it be a benefit? Good for interaction between students. Maybe an "easy A" but so what?

All the non-native speakers drop the class b/c having native speakers in the class skews the grade curve so there is no interaction. If you look at the higher grades in MoCo, it's filled with native speakers but few/none non-native speakers.

Ridiculous. Tax payer support for kids who don't need to learn the language...

Why skew the grade that way? They could just as well curve it so that the highest non-native-speaker is what constitutes an "A". For the native-speakers, if they get an "easy A" out of it, so what? Believe me, colleges are bright enough to figure out that an A in Mandarin from a kid with the surname of Zhang is not going to be as impressive as an A in Mandarin from a kid with the surname of Mendez or O'Neill.

Since when can teachers grade their students based on the ethnicity, race or surname?!?

[Anonymous]

In a classroom, you cannot have "higher standards" for one group and a "lower standard" for another group.

[Anonymous]

They are not going to skew the curve for the one native speaker in the class. You cannot give everyone in the class and "A".

[Anonymous]

Fixed.

Anonymous wrote:They are not going to skew the curve for the one non-native speaker in the class. You cannot give everyone in the class and "A".

If you read the thread about the MoCo immersion program there are no non-native speakers in the class to skew to even if they want to... So it's all native speakers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fixed.

Anonymous wrote:They are not going to skew the curve for the one non-native speaker in the class. You cannot give everyone in the class and "A".

If you read the thread about the MoCo immersion program there are no non-native speakers in the class to skew to even if they want to... So it's all native speakers.

And THAT is the part I find troubling. I totally get the benefit of native speakers in class with non-native speakers, where there is a really structured and consistent interaction between the groups. To read these MoCo threads, somewhere a gap develops in proficiency and it almost sounds like the teachers just stop trying to engage the non-native speakers in a rigorous way. If there are a lot of non-native speakers in the early grades, but none or almost none in the upper grades? That sounds so sad for the students who really get into it and do their best. Clearly not saying anyone should skew to lower-level students, or that somehow there should be two grading systems. But surely there is more the schools could do to develop the non-native speakers, since everyone and their cousin trips over themselves to remind us in every YY thread that higher % of native speakers is supposed to positively influence everyone, not push the non-native spearkers out in the upper grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's misguided to think it's just an "easy A" for "native speakers" - Even "native speakers" can benefit from a language program. I grew up on the Texas border and my Spanish class was full of native speakers - but many of them still had issues with grammar and other aspects of the language. Just because it's spoken at home doesn't necessarily mean there is appropriate fluency and proficiency.

Sure they can benefit but putting native speakers into the same class as non-native speakers doesn't serve either group. For all intents and purposes, the upper grade Mandarin classes in MoCo serve as an "easy A" for native speakers. Since grades are on a curve, it's never an "A" for non-native speakers which is a consideration for what you want to appear on your transcript for college admissions.

Why wouldn't it be a benefit? Good for interaction between students. Maybe an "easy A" but so what?

All the non-native speakers drop the class b/c having native speakers in the class skews the grade curve so there is no interaction. If you look at the higher grades in MoCo, it's filled with native speakers but few/none non-native speakers.

Ridiculous. Tax payer support for kids who don't need to learn the language...

Why skew the grade that way? They could just as well curve it so that the highest non-native-speaker is what constitutes an "A". For the native-speakers, if they get an "easy A" out of it, so what? Believe me, colleges are bright enough to figure out that an A in Mandarin from a kid with the surname of Zhang is not going to be as impressive as an A in Mandarin from a kid with the surname of Mendez or O'Neill.

Since when can teachers grade their students based on the ethnicity, race or surname?!?

Who says it has to be based on ethnicity, race or surname? You can look at pure numbers in the core of the bell curve for grade distribution and cut off the outlyers. One Zhang could be a native speaker, another Zhang could be 4th generation non-native speaker, you'll see that in the test results, you won't get it from just looking at the name. But then again it sounds like MoCo has already broken the process so that they no longer draw non-native speakers so it's a moot point in that case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well I guess it's clear why native Mandarin speakers think it's superior, it serves them very well!

+1. Native speakers should move to MoCo since the program is tailored for their needs... And their chances of getting into the MoCo Mandarin immersion schools is much better than at YY. Sounds like MoCo has everything that people who complain about YY want in a Mandarin immersion program including the required # of Chinese admins. Probably a good idea to move.

[Anonymous]

For better and worse, the MoCo immersion programs are harder-core than YY, with non-native speaking families knowing that they're going to have to take the Chinese really seriously to keep up. A few grumble on DCUM, many others adapt. Whenever many East Asian immigrant families are involved in a school program, other are going to have to work hard to keep up. This reality can be a shock to the system for the uninitiated.

Chinese-American families know that elite colleges throw up barriers to admission for Asian applicants, like they did to Jews in an earlier generation. This helps explain why they want stellar test scores in HS: 5s on AP Chinese, 700-800s on the Chinese SAT II, and 6s and 7s on International Baccalaureate HL Chinese. MoCo's immersion system provides a path for these scores. The attitude is not "hey, I'd just like my ES kid to learn enough to be proficient, have fun, and think globally." Cultural norms and economic uncertainty motivate immigrant families to embrace the challenge of ensuring that their kids ace standardized tests for college admissions, which China invented centuries ago.

Every native-speaking MoCo family we know who's wanted immersion got it eventually, usually after one or two years of waiting to replace a drop-out. Native-speaking parents have every reason to expect to get in if they persevere, because most neighborhood schools are good and demand for immersion spots isn't sky high. The strong native-speaking presence means that practices to help kids learn that aren't seen much at YY yet--parents mainly speaking Chinese at home, heritage language school classes on weekends, kids attending China-themed and GT summer camps (e.g. Camp China in Rockville, and Dr. Li's MS entrance Raven Test Prep)--are common enough in MoCo.

Hardly anybody at YY seems to desire tougher Mandarin, more pressure for kids, or replacing the current admins with native speakers, so sounds like you've already got what you want.

[Anonymous]

Shame on those MoCo immersion families for planning ahead and working hard when diversity and open access matter most in public education, no matter what's goin' on in E. Asia economically...

[Anonymous]

MoCo parents know that kids who stick w/immersion Mandarin through 8th grade, and earn good grades, present competitive applications to the Richard Montgomery International Baccalaurate program (admitting 10-15% of applicants county wide). This is part of their motivation for working hard at Chinese.

Once DCI has a HS fielding graduating classes, and YY has a feel for how its alumni are faring in college admissions, I'd wager that more parents will be more committed to Mandarin. Also, with charter funding very likely to improve in the coming years, the school should improve, too. I don't see non native speaking admins being a fixture either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shame on those MoCo immersion families for planning ahead and working hard when diversity and open access matter most in public education, no matter what's goin' on in E. Asia economically...

Whew, your post has so much biased SPIN to it, almost fell off my chair reading that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MoCo parents know that kids who stick w/immersion Mandarin through 8th grade, and earn good grades, present competitive applications to the Richard Montgomery International Baccalaurate program (admitting 10-15% of applicants county wide). This is part of their motivation for working hard at Chinese.

Once DCI has a HS fielding graduating classes, and YY has a feel for how its alumni are faring in college admissions, I'd wager that more parents will be more committed to Mandarin. Also, with charter funding very likely to improve in the coming years, the school should improve, too. I don't see non native speaking admins being a fixture either.

What's more important, that the school keeps improving and is awesome and the kids are learning Mandarin effectively? Or that the Admins be native-speaking by any means necessary?

Me, since I'm a YY parent, I really hope the focus stays on continuing to improve the school and the quality of the Mandarin (and English) education. I don't care if the next round of Admins are native Farsi speakers; if they know how to run an absolutely first class, fantastically-performing Mandarin bi-lingual school, I will support them completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MoCo parents know that kids who stick w/immersion Mandarin through 8th grade, and earn good grades, present competitive applications to the Richard Montgomery International Baccalaurate program (admitting 10-15% of applicants county wide). This is part of their motivation for working hard at Chinese.

Once DCI has a HS fielding graduating classes, and YY has a feel for how its alumni are faring in college admissions, I'd wager that more parents will be more committed to Mandarin. Also, with charter funding very likely to improve in the coming years, the school should improve, too. I don't see non native speaking admins being a fixture either.

Agree with this other than the point about the current Admins. Hopefully by the time DCI has graduating classes and (hopefully) YY's star has continued to rise, all the grumpy folks criticizing the current Admins will have banded together to create new Mandarin charter schools - in DC and in MoCo. That way if the demand really does increase as you say, there will be more schools to suit the demand. Because to be 6 or 7 years down the road from today and have 100X the complaints about how YY does things or how MoCo is better... that might just melt the internets.