Deal or Basis for DCs? Advice Needed.

[Anonymous]

They can't quite follow the same model. A good many of the low-income Tuscon and Scottsdale kids are coming out of GT programs. They were identified as gifted and recruited to participate at age 6 or 7. DCPS and DC Charter don't offer such programs. Also, most middle-class families stay in AZ public schools through 12th. Not true in DC - most will depart, Basis or no Basis, as at Latin. Thus, we won't see high octane SAT scores 7 or 8 eight years hence. Decent scores but not 1900+.

[Anonymous]

+1. The boosters are in denial, people. SAT scores will show it eventually. Arizona does have GT programs. Where are ours??

[Anonymous]

PP has a good point. Good intentions aside, can Basis can duplicate their success (even in part) to create an environment favorable to learning for kids that have high/very high potential in DC?

Objectively, Basis’s scores/track record shows that the Basis orgnization has the knowhow needed to put together an environment favorable to learning at the very highest level. On the numbers, Newsweek has an internet list of the 1000 best high schools in the US that includes SAT scores. (The link is provided below - the site takes a while to load). Once it comes up, you can sort by SAT score. Basis Scottsdale (SAT 1951) is 32th and Tucson (SAT 1932) is 42nd place. By comparison, Bronx High School of Science (SAT 2010) is 16th and Thomas Jefferson (SAT 2200) is 3rd, but both are selective. Also, an 1800 average SAT score would be about 200th on the list and 1900 would be 77th. In perspective, there are about 42,000 high schools in the US. (Digest of Education Statistics 2011 June 2012). That would put Basis Tucson in the top 0.1% or one in a thousand.

But will Basis can duplicate their success in DC, sufficently to keep high performing DC kids? From what I understand about the Basis approach, they teach 5th graders, 5th and 6th grade subject matter. 6th graders get 7th and 8th grade subject matter, and so on. If kids don’t pass, they are left behind a grade. If they implement this model and then expel kids that are violent&mean, what’s to stop them?

Basis may be the underdog. We’ll see what happens. If Latin tried and did not succeed, was it because the Latin organization did not have the past perfomace/knowhow?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/20/america-s-best-high-schools.html

[Anonymous]

Ok SAT score tell us something, but does it tell us enough. I had a score of 1250 when 1600 was the top score. Bascially 80% for language section and 20% for the math. I have an IQ of 120. I have a job that supports a family of 4 and an advanced degree. The point is that you do not have to have a top SAT score to be an educated, thinking, capable adult. In my mind I think we give too much power to these numbers, some schools are better for some kids than others- not just rigor, but also interests and personality . There are very good schools that may not have the top SAT schools but produce educated citizens. We need to be thinking beyond these type of numbers. (No I am not missing the irony that I still know my SAT scores, 20 years into my life.)

[Anonymous]

Just because DC doesn't have G&T programs doesn't mean it doesn't have students with G&T potential. Statistically speaking, there would easily be several hundred, perhaps well over a thousand with that potential in DC schools right now, whether DCPS, ES and MS charters, parochial and privates.

And many parents of those children with potential will no doubt try to get them into middle and high schools where they think they have a chance of excelling, whether Basis, Latin, or some of the other decent schools.

[Anonymous]

^Sure, there are kids with GT potential in DCPS and DC Charter, hundreds and possibly thousands of them. But somewhere between K and 9th grade, the great majority depart to the burbs or privates, including low-SES kids given scholarships. Those who remain probably aren't in the best situation. Parents of 4th and 5th graders in one of the half dozen centers for the highly gifted in MoCo can attest to the difference between the curriculum for "advanced learners" in their neighborhood schools and those for truly gifted kids at these centers.

In AZ, apparently, few leave public schools and the BASIS campuses offer better facilities than here. The DC amenities are so lean that many high-SES parents will surely leave for HS in search of playing fields, media centers, gyms, auditoriums etc. even if the academics look promising. What we can probably expect on the SAT front is what you see at Wilson, a small number of students, nearly all high-SES, scoring 2000+ while average scores are much lower. Without selective admissions, as at Bronx Science and TJ, you can't do better than that. As my grandmother would have put it, you can't put in what God left out...

Although I attended a mediocre HS where average SAT scores hovered close to the national average, I scored 750+ on both sections. I've loved to read as a kid, and had some good math teachers. The test presents no great hurdles for the highly motivated, wherever they study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP has a good point. Good intentions aside, can Basis can duplicate their success (even in part) to create an environment favorable to learning for kids that have high/very high potential in DC?

Objectively, Basis’s scores/track record shows that the Basis orgnization has the knowhow needed to put together an environment favorable to learning at the very highest level. On the numbers, Newsweek has an internet list of the 1000 best high schools in the US that includes SAT scores. (The link is provided below - the site takes a while to load). Once it comes up, you can sort by SAT score. Basis Scottsdale (SAT 1951) is 32th and Tucson (SAT 1932) is 42nd place. By comparison, Bronx High School of Science (SAT 2010) is 16th and Thomas Jefferson (SAT 2200) is 3rd, but both are selective. Also, an 1800 average SAT score would be about 200th on the list and 1900 would be 77th. In perspective, there are about 42,000 high schools in the US. (Digest of Education Statistics 2011 June 2012). That would put Basis Tucson in the top 0.1% or one in a thousand.

But will Basis can duplicate their success in DC, sufficently to keep high performing DC kids? From what I understand about the Basis approach, they teach 5th graders, 5th and 6th grade subject matter. 6th graders get 7th and 8th grade subject matter, and so on. If kids don’t pass, they are left behind a grade. If they implement this model and then expel kids that are violent&mean, what’s to stop them?

Basis may be the underdog. We’ll see what happens. If Latin tried and did not succeed, was it because the Latin organization did not have the past perfomace/knowhow?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/20/america-s-best-high-schools.html

Hi, Latin's model is based on the oldest public school in the United States (www.bls.org). Latin is doing remarkable work in D.C.

[Anonymous]

Sure, remarkable work but I still want to see their SAT scores a few years hence. If they're below 1800, almost certainly the case, forget it for my own kids.

I attended Boston Latin, the model school, and we took a test to get it. Many of my middle school classmates failed said test.

[Anonymous]

From what I understand about the Basis approach, they teach 5th graders, 5th and 6th grade subject matter. 6th graders get 7th and 8th grade subject matter, and so on. If kids don’t pass, they are left behind a grade. If they implement this model and then expel kids that are violent&mean, what’s to stop them?

They're really going to keep most of the 8th graders back a grade? As the parent of a 5th grader, it looks to me like few are the types to pass the comprehensive exams (hint: they spend half the day screaming, and pushing and tripping one another). Come on, they're stuck with most of these kids because they need the money that follows them to run the school, and can't replace them with students who could handle the curriculum because of the ban on screening applicants. Looks like we're on track for seriously mediocre SAT scores 3-4 years hence. Bad mistake to start with a 5-8th group but BASIS DC will probably recover eventually due to high demand for their brand of instruction and downtown location.

[Anonymous]

A huge number of students with potential will never be able to flee to the suburbs or attend privates. Many scholarships still do not cover the full tuition and many parents cannot close the gaps.

There are also private schools in and around Tucson and Scottsdale, but BASIS obviously does fine regardless. Sure, BASIS needs a student body to ensure continued funding but for every student to get expelled for violence, and for every parent who pulls out rather than repeating a grade, there will be many others looking to get in to BASIS to replace those lost to attrition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're really going to keep most of the 8th graders back a grade? As the parent of a 5th grader, it looks to me like few are the types to pass the comprehensive exams (hint: they spend half the day screaming, and pushing and tripping one another). Come on, they're stuck with most of these kids because they need the money that follows them to run the school, and can't replace them with students who could handle the curriculum because of the ban on screening applicants.

8th graders who leave will be replaced next year (for funding purposes) by another big class of 5th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Sure, there are kids with GT potential in DCPS and DC Charter, hundreds and possibly thousands of them. But somewhere between K and 9th grade, the great majority depart to the burbs or privates, including low-SES kids given scholarships. Those who remain probably aren't in the best situation. Parents of 4th and 5th graders in one of the half dozen centers for the highly gifted in MoCo can attest to the difference between the curriculum for "advanced learners" in their neighborhood schools and those for truly gifted kids at these centers.

In AZ, apparently, few leave public schools and the BASIS campuses offer better facilities than here. The DC amenities are so lean that many high-SES parents will surely leave for HS in search of playing fields, media centers, gyms, auditoriums etc. even if the academics look promising. What we can probably expect on the SAT front is what you see at Wilson, a small number of students, nearly all high-SES, scoring 2000+ while average scores are much lower. Without selective admissions, as at Bronx Science and TJ, you can't do better than that. As my grandmother would have put it, you can't put in what God left out...

Although I attended a mediocre HS where average SAT scores hovered close to the national average, I scored 750+ on both sections. I've loved to read as a kid, and had some good math teachers. The test presents no great hurdles for the highly motivated, wherever they study.

A huge number will never have the means to get to fancy suburban schools or privates, because the families do not have the means for doing so. Moving is expensive, many of the neighborhoods outside the city with good schools are not cheap. Even with scholarships, there is typically still a lot of money that families have to come up with, my brother and sister-in-law have kids who got academic scholarships to privates and they still have to come up with a lot of money to make up the difference and fill in the logistical gaps. For any family that isn't well into six figure incomes, scholarships will still not likely be enough to do it, and even then it may become a question of going into hock to pick up the remainder of the private school cost versus saving for college, or hoping they get a decent scholarship for college as well (and that still requires coming up with a lot of money too). Have no illusions about it - private school scholarships are not some Magic Hand of God reaching down from the clouds to pluck poor and middle class kids who are gifted out of the ghetto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're really going to keep most of the 8th graders back a grade? As the parent of a 5th grader, it looks to me like few are the types to pass the comprehensive exams (hint: they spend half the day screaming, and pushing and tripping one another). Come on, they're stuck with most of these kids because they need the money that follows them to run the school, and can't replace them with students who could handle the curriculum because of the ban on screening applicants.

8th graders who leave will be replaced next year (for funding purposes) by another big class of 5th graders.

I think they are also looking at incrementally adding 9th-12th grade. I believe the plan ultimately is that incoming 5th graders will have the possibility of staying at BASIS right through to graduation.