Why is Friendship Heights so empty and lame?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an article a few years back that city centre dc sucked all the luxury life from FH--a lot of the stores moved. Honestly, with city centre even more plagued by crime, perhaps they'll all come back. I am devastated that they didn't maintain the Mazza facade--it was weird but interesting--they could have blown out the back with something glass, airy and outward looking. Whatever, I'm sure they'll replace it with something horrendously nonedescript with some luxury condos tacked on. Not sure that will be a big win.

…and yet in 50 years there will be a group of people trying to get historic designation for the “horrendously nondescript” building going up as we speak.

Mazza was just as nondescript as any other modern building…and many buildings constructed 50 or 70 or 100 years ago.

it just wasn't. It had a striking architecture. You might not have liked it, but it was bold.

This is the problem with historic designation and the like. It’s really just personal taste. What you say is striking I guarantee didn’t resonate with 99% of the population.

It looked like a hulking enclosed mall…nothing more. I don’t care they tore it down, nor would I care if someone thought repurposing the existing structure was a better use. That’s capitalism and I wish the new owner/developer with success as this will be the anchor for new development.

A lot of this new development has a huge carbon footprint when they tear down and start over, rather than conserve and repurpose. This is about quick $ for developers and whatever the long term impact of their tiny luxury condos, who cares. Not thoughtful mixed use urban planning. But feel free to pretend otherwise.

Repurposing older buildngs, especially Class C office is insanely expensive. A lot of the buildings in FH are 40 plus years old. You basically have to gut it down to the studs and rebuild. Honestly, in many ways it is easier to tear down and start over with materials and design that meet todays sustainability standards and what the markets wants. There is a reason conversions of office downtown are so challenging. Why do people who know nothing about real estate or construction act like they own these properties and they know how to make them profitable?

The fact that we need to tear down buildings only 40 years old is a pretty good indicator of something being very wrong. What about any of the current designs makes you think they'll last any longer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Buildings_Learn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an article a few years back that city centre dc sucked all the luxury life from FH--a lot of the stores moved. Honestly, with city centre even more plagued by crime, perhaps they'll all come back. I am devastated that they didn't maintain the Mazza facade--it was weird but interesting--they could have blown out the back with something glass, airy and outward looking. Whatever, I'm sure they'll replace it with something horrendously nonedescript with some luxury condos tacked on. Not sure that will be a big win.

…and yet in 50 years there will be a group of people trying to get historic designation for the “horrendously nondescript” building going up as we speak.

Mazza was just as nondescript as any other modern building…and many buildings constructed 50 or 70 or 100 years ago.

it just wasn't. It had a striking architecture. You might not have liked it, but it was bold.

This is the problem with historic designation and the like. It’s really just personal taste. What you say is striking I guarantee didn’t resonate with 99% of the population.

It looked like a hulking enclosed mall…nothing more. I don’t care they tore it down, nor would I care if someone thought repurposing the existing structure was a better use. That’s capitalism and I wish the new owner/developer with success as this will be the anchor for new development.

A lot of this new development has a huge carbon footprint when they tear down and start over, rather than conserve and repurpose. This is about quick $ for developers and whatever the long term impact of their tiny luxury condos, who cares. Not thoughtful mixed use urban planning. But feel free to pretend otherwise.

Again, I just don't care. No pretending needed.

And there you have it, a supporter of development who doesn't care about its impact. How unique.

Exactly. But then the advocates for intensive, dense, tall development piously claim that their plans are all about addressing climate change and saving the planet. What a crock of (methane-emitting) cow manure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an article a few years back that city centre dc sucked all the luxury life from FH--a lot of the stores moved. Honestly, with city centre even more plagued by crime, perhaps they'll all come back. I am devastated that they didn't maintain the Mazza facade--it was weird but interesting--they could have blown out the back with something glass, airy and outward looking. Whatever, I'm sure they'll replace it with something horrendously nonedescript with some luxury condos tacked on. Not sure that will be a big win.

…and yet in 50 years there will be a group of people trying to get historic designation for the “horrendously nondescript” building going up as we speak.

Mazza was just as nondescript as any other modern building…and many buildings constructed 50 or 70 or 100 years ago.

it just wasn't. It had a striking architecture. You might not have liked it, but it was bold.

This is the problem with historic designation and the like. It’s really just personal taste. What you say is striking I guarantee didn’t resonate with 99% of the population.

It looked like a hulking enclosed mall…nothing more. I don’t care they tore it down, nor would I care if someone thought repurposing the existing structure was a better use. That’s capitalism and I wish the new owner/developer with success as this will be the anchor for new development.

A lot of this new development has a huge carbon footprint when they tear down and start over, rather than conserve and repurpose. This is about quick $ for developers and whatever the long term impact of their tiny luxury condos, who cares. Not thoughtful mixed use urban planning. But feel free to pretend otherwise.

Again, I just don't care. No pretending needed.

And there you have it, a supporter of development who doesn't care about its impact. How unique.

Exactly. But then the advocates for intensive, dense, tall development piously claim that their plans are all about addressing climate change and saving the planet. What a crock of (methane-emitting) cow manure.

Again, I don't care much about that either. I just don't care what a private company does with a property they own. If they could have figured out how to revitalize the existing structure...great. If not, that's fine too. Become a R/E developer yourself and go try to save some buildings if you would like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an article a few years back that city centre dc sucked all the luxury life from FH--a lot of the stores moved. Honestly, with city centre even more plagued by crime, perhaps they'll all come back. I am devastated that they didn't maintain the Mazza facade--it was weird but interesting--they could have blown out the back with something glass, airy and outward looking. Whatever, I'm sure they'll replace it with something horrendously nonedescript with some luxury condos tacked on. Not sure that will be a big win.

…and yet in 50 years there will be a group of people trying to get historic designation for the “horrendously nondescript” building going up as we speak.

Mazza was just as nondescript as any other modern building…and many buildings constructed 50 or 70 or 100 years ago.

it just wasn't. It had a striking architecture. You might not have liked it, but it was bold.

This is the problem with historic designation and the like. It’s really just personal taste. What you say is striking I guarantee didn’t resonate with 99% of the population.

It looked like a hulking enclosed mall…nothing more. I don’t care they tore it down, nor would I care if someone thought repurposing the existing structure was a better use. That’s capitalism and I wish the new owner/developer with success as this will be the anchor for new development.

A lot of this new development has a huge carbon footprint when they tear down and start over, rather than conserve and repurpose. This is about quick $ for developers and whatever the long term impact of their tiny luxury condos, who cares. Not thoughtful mixed use urban planning. But feel free to pretend otherwise.

Repurposing older buildngs, especially Class C office is insanely expensive. A lot of the buildings in FH are 40 plus years old. You basically have to gut it down to the studs and rebuild. Honestly, in many ways it is easier to tear down and start over with materials and design that meet todays sustainability standards and what the markets wants. There is a reason conversions of office downtown are so challenging. Why do people who know nothing about real estate or construction act like they own these properties and they know how to make them profitable?

Mazza Galleria was an open artium shopping mall, not an office building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That Woodies was great!

I used to go there for the Wellesley Fudge cupcakes and the Velatis caramels. Those were the days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That Woodies was great!

I used to go there for the Wellesley Fudge cupcakes and the Velatis caramels. Those were the days.

OMG, my mom took me there for those, too! Yummy memories.

[Anonymous]

Not that its FH but I used to love going to the Sears at Tenley Circle (TARGET now) to get the soft pretzles from their lunch counter on the roof where they had the parking lot and the lawn & garden center way back when.

[Anonymous]

Didnt Woodies and later Hechts have a Ticketron office on the lower floor near Houlihan's? I seem to remember waiting in line outside on numerous occasions for tickets for shows at RFK and The Caps Center to go on sale there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an article a few years back that city centre dc sucked all the luxury life from FH--a lot of the stores moved. Honestly, with city centre even more plagued by crime, perhaps they'll all come back. I am devastated that they didn't maintain the Mazza facade--it was weird but interesting--they could have blown out the back with something glass, airy and outward looking. Whatever, I'm sure they'll replace it with something horrendously nonedescript with some luxury condos tacked on. Not sure that will be a big win.

…and yet in 50 years there will be a group of people trying to get historic designation for the “horrendously nondescript” building going up as we speak.

Mazza was just as nondescript as any other modern building…and many buildings constructed 50 or 70 or 100 years ago.

it just wasn't. It had a striking architecture. You might not have liked it, but it was bold.

This is the problem with historic designation and the like. It’s really just personal taste. What you say is striking I guarantee didn’t resonate with 99% of the population.

It looked like a hulking enclosed mall…nothing more. I don’t care they tore it down, nor would I care if someone thought repurposing the existing structure was a better use. That’s capitalism and I wish the new owner/developer with success as this will be the anchor for new development.

A lot of this new development has a huge carbon footprint when they tear down and start over, rather than conserve and repurpose. This is about quick $ for developers and whatever the long term impact of their tiny luxury condos, who cares. Not thoughtful mixed use urban planning. But feel free to pretend otherwise.

Repurposing older buildngs, especially Class C office is insanely expensive. A lot of the buildings in FH are 40 plus years old. You basically have to gut it down to the studs and rebuild. Honestly, in many ways it is easier to tear down and start over with materials and design that meet todays sustainability standards and what the markets wants. There is a reason conversions of office downtown are so challenging. Why do people who know nothing about real estate or construction act like they own these properties and they know how to make them profitable?

The fact that we need to tear down buildings only 40 years old is a pretty good indicator of something being very wrong. What about any of the current designs makes you think they'll last any longer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Buildings_Learn

If you were going to build a building in the 1970s that could be reused for many different purposes and last many decades or even centuries, you wouldn't build the Mazza Gallerie (or the Lakeforest Mall). It didn't even serve its original purpose well.

[Anonymous]

Ah, but White Flint was magical! See other threads for memories.

[Anonymous]

It's pretty cool to me that Mazze is being taken down to the ground, but rebuilt on top of the subterranean structure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The area was hopping around 2007. Barneys was there, Bloomingdales was brand new. Lots of shopping options in the pavillion. I loved seeing movies at Mazza. (Ward 3 needs more cinemas, but that's another post.)

I think online shopping and covid were the causes. But I'm not sure the new options are going to be much better from a retail perspective. DC used to be the place to go to shop, not people in DC have to go to the burbs to shop.

I think there were two major problems — in addition to things like internet shopping and the impact of COVID. The retail isn’t meeting essential needs of the people who live there — and it’s not special enough to be a destination for people who don’t. The closing of Borders was a critical change, I think. There is no longer a normal grocery store or a normal drug store in Friendship Heights. There are also no options with late night hours. If I have to go outside of the neighborhood for basic essentials and spur of the moment purchases, I won’t typically go out of my way to make a second stop or trip for the few things that I need that I can still find locally in the neighborhood.

I’m truly hoping for a Trader Joe’s in the H & M / Pottery Barn spot. I’d love a good Giant with a pharmacy and a bookstore, but those days are long gone.

Another problem is that FH does a horrible job of promoting the things that it DOES have. There was a pop up bookstore on Wisconsin Ave. near the old Sur La Table space. I didn’t find out about it until I happened to walk by the space —after it had closed. The Heights Food Hall has now been open for a few weeks. I wouldn’t have known this if I hadn’t been following one specific restaurant. There are thousands of people in Friendship Heights Village alone, many of whom would be thrilled to patronize local business — if we knew that they were open.

FWIW, I love the Amazon Fresh store. It is much better than the Giant it replaced.

That said, the space is too small for a decent-sized store.

I’m glad that you like the Amazon Fresh store. I hate it. They’re often out of very basic things — and stocking is inconsistent, at least for things that I’d like to buy. I’d rather have a Giant with a pharmacy — even the small one that was there before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The area was hopping around 2007. Barneys was there, Bloomingdales was brand new. Lots of shopping options in the pavillion. I loved seeing movies at Mazza. (Ward 3 needs more cinemas, but that's another post.)

I think online shopping and covid were the causes. But I'm not sure the new options are going to be much better from a retail perspective. DC used to be the place to go to shop, not people in DC have to go to the burbs to shop.

I think there were two major problems — in addition to things like internet shopping and the impact of COVID. The retail isn’t meeting essential needs of the people who live there — and it’s not special enough to be a destination for people who don’t. The closing of Borders was a critical change, I think. There is no longer a normal grocery store or a normal drug store in Friendship Heights. There are also no options with late night hours. If I have to go outside of the neighborhood for basic essentials and spur of the moment purchases, I won’t typically go out of my way to make a second stop or trip for the few things that I need that I can still find locally in the neighborhood.

I’m truly hoping for a Trader Joe’s in the H & M / Pottery Barn spot. I’d love a good Giant with a pharmacy and a bookstore, but those days are long gone.

Another problem is that FH does a horrible job of promoting the things that it DOES have. There was a pop up bookstore on Wisconsin Ave. near the old Sur La Table space. I didn’t find out about it until I happened to walk by the space —after it had closed. The Heights Food Hall has now been open for a few weeks. I wouldn’t have known this if I hadn’t been following one specific restaurant. There are thousands of people in Friendship Heights Village alone, many of whom would be thrilled to patronize local business — if we knew that they were open.

FWIW, I love the Amazon Fresh store. It is much better than the Giant it replaced.

That said, the space is too small for a decent-sized store.

I’m glad that you like the Amazon Fresh store. I hate it. They’re often out of very basic things — and stocking is inconsistent, at least for things that I’d like to buy. I’d rather have a Giant with a pharmacy — even the small one that was there before.

Well, obviously the Giant that used to be there wasn’t working out for Giant or its customers or it would still exist.

[Anonymous]

Friendship Heights was dead long before Covid… the days of Nordstrom Rack and TJ Maxx were not its healthy years. When it first emerged as a shopping area, it was the go-to for luxury, but City Center took all those stores. The rest went to Bethesda row or Pike and Rose. I remember reading in a survey group report that one respondent viewed FH as a dead zone between Tenleytown and Bethesda. Crazy to think that fifteen years ago, those were both unremarkable and people came from all over for FH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Friendship Heights was dead long before Covid… the days of Nordstrom Rack and TJ Maxx were not its healthy years. When it first emerged as a shopping area, it was the go-to for luxury, but City Center took all those stores. The rest went to Bethesda row or Pike and Rose. I remember reading in a survey group report that one respondent viewed FH as a dead zone between Tenleytown and Bethesda. Crazy to think that fifteen years ago, those were both unremarkable and people came from all over for FH.

Tenleytown and Bethesda were "unremarkable" in 2009? How about that.