Why not close the achievement gap from the top down?

[Anonymous]

So I believe that beginning in middle school, there needs to be a track of students who aren’t succeeding with traditional school who can opt by choice to go to a trade school in HS that will put them on a track to have gainful employment. HS would be some core subject areas paired with a heavier focus on practical classes (basic finance skills, and apprenticeships (how to open and run a business in the trades) that will lead to an alternate path. Bring back the trade schools!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The tall kid was raised well nourished by their parents. The short one is short due to food poverty. The government intervenes early and gives the kid the food their parents couldn’t/wouldn't provide .

Now BOTH kids receives what they need to thrive to their full height potential.

Prince Harry flunked his A- levels. Despite having the most privileged education available in England, as a prince, there was a point of diminishing return where Harry’s inherit intelligence and work ethic could no longer be improved by outside resources.

The goal of equity should be that every kid’s maximum potential is reached, meaning that a poor kid with greater potential will outperform a richer one with lower potential. We are not there yet, hello lax bros on Wall Street.

Sounds great, but the way this works today is they withhold food from the tall kid to make the shorter, malnourished one look better because even if the gov just gave them food, they wouldn't eat it. This is equity in action.

I work in schools. I hate to say it, but this is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I believe that beginning in middle school, there needs to be a track of students who aren’t succeeding with traditional school who can opt by choice to go to a trade school in HS that will put them on a track to have gainful employment. HS would be some core subject areas paired with a heavier focus on practical classes (basic finance skills, and apprenticeships (how to open and run a business in the trades) that will lead to an alternate path. Bring back the trade schools!

Agreed. The kids will also be happier. You can make good money as a plumber and you can start apprenticing at 17 or 18 and be set, rather than failing school but being passed on from 8th-12 grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not send the low achievers to 3rd world countries? USA for academic high achievers and rich only. Let's do some smart immigration that works both ways. Valuable humans coming to US, waste of space humans leaving US?

That is awful! And how Canada does it!!

You are not seriously suggesting we lower ourselves in the US to such despicable measures as someplace like, Canada ?!??

Canada simply has a “point system” for immigration, meaning anyone can apply.

However, an applicant is assigned points based on the level of their educational attainment, and only those with the highest number of points are allowed to emigrate to Canada.

Unskilled, uneducated people are kept out of Canada this way.

In the US, this would mean that more and more skilled jobs are going to immigrants. How do native less educated Canadians handle that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I believe that beginning in middle school, there needs to be a track of students who aren’t succeeding with traditional school who can opt by choice to go to a trade school in HS that will put them on a track to have gainful employment. HS would be some core subject areas paired with a heavier focus on practical classes (basic finance skills, and apprenticeships (how to open and run a business in the trades) that will lead to an alternate path. Bring back the trade schools!

Kids who aren't succeeding in traditional school often don't have the math or the comprehension skills to succeed in a trade. Machinists need to know trig. Carpenters need to know algebra. The kids I see (I'm a teacher) who aren't succeeding in middle school, for example, are kids who don't know their basic addition, subtraction and multiplication facts. Everyone says the trades are for kids who can't hack college and I strongly disagree. The trades are for kids who enjoy working with their hands, doing practical things, and applying strong high school skills. The kids who aren't succeeding in high school could possibly be successful in a trade if their only issue is being bored in school. But they have to be capable of learning more difficult skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I believe that beginning in middle school, there needs to be a track of students who aren’t succeeding with traditional school who can opt by choice to go to a trade school in HS that will put them on a track to have gainful employment. HS would be some core subject areas paired with a heavier focus on practical classes (basic finance skills, and apprenticeships (how to open and run a business in the trades) that will lead to an alternate path. Bring back the trade schools!

Kids who aren't succeeding in traditional school often don't have the math or the comprehension skills to succeed in a trade. Machinists need to know trig. Carpenters need to know algebra. The kids I see (I'm a teacher) who aren't succeeding in middle school, for example, [b]are kids who don't know their basic addition, subtraction and multiplication facts. [b] Everyone says the trades are for kids who can't hack college and I strongly disagree. The trades are for kids who enjoy working with their hands, doing practical things, and applying strong high school skills. The kids who aren't succeeding in high school could possibly be successful in a trade if their only issue is being bored in school. But they have to be capable of learning more difficult skills.

But these kids you are speaking about are a different subset; they are special needs kids, or kids who have an IEP with more substantial needs. They should have a choice as well. Core subjects and then “rotations” or “clinicals” in real life jobs: real estate sales, medical billing, grocery store manager, construction, reception, wait staff at restaurants. They need to practice their executive functioning skills- getting to work on time, asking questions, managing schedules, and they can “try out” what they might like to do and become more confident in what line of work they might want to pursue. Coordinating these opportunities may be a nightmare, but maybe if there was some sort of tax credit for businesses to take on these students to help train them. Then the businesses could have a ready to go channel for hiring and these kids would have a better idea of what they are suited for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not send the low achievers to 3rd world countries? USA for academic high achievers and rich only. Let's do some smart immigration that works both ways. Valuable humans coming to US, waste of space humans leaving US?

That is awful! And how Canada does it!!

You are not seriously suggesting we lower ourselves in the US to such despicable measures as someplace like, Canada ?!??

Canada simply has a “point system” for immigration, meaning anyone can apply.

However, an applicant is assigned points based on the level of their educational attainment, and only those with the highest number of points are allowed to emigrate to Canada.

Unskilled, uneducated people are kept out of Canada this way.

In the US, this would mean that more and more skilled jobs are going to immigrants. How do native less educated Canadians handle that?

NP. I actually looked into moving to Canada a long time ago instead of moving to the US, and it was extremely difficult. Yes it was points based but even with a degree from a respected university in a useful field it was not easy to get enough points. Canada is extremely good at keeping people out of their country, and has been for a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I believe that beginning in middle school, there needs to be a track of students who aren’t succeeding with traditional school who can opt by choice to go to a trade school in HS that will put them on a track to have gainful employment. HS would be some core subject areas paired with a heavier focus on practical classes (basic finance skills, and apprenticeships (how to open and run a business in the trades) that will lead to an alternate path. Bring back the trade schools!

Agreed. The kids will also be happier. You can make good money as a plumber and you can start apprenticing at 17 or 18 and be set, rather than failing school but being passed on from 8th-12 grade.

The problem is that in predominantly black areas like Baltimore, you’d have an entire city where every kid is in the alternate track. There may be a handful of kids in the entire city that are on or above grade level. It would not be enough to warrant running classes for them, but even if they did, there would be one small class of regular students in literally an entire city. I don’t see it as a problem personally because I know it would actually be a good thing for the city, but most people around the country don’t realize how bad things are there, because the city prefers to pretend that their kids are the same as kids around the rest of the country. It’s an ego thing.