Do we want high paying union jobs or do we want promise of fake "green jobs"

[Anonymous]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/us/rancor-grows-over-planned-oil-pipeline-from-canada.html?_r=2&hpw

EPA, killing the American recovery. Let Americans work!

[jsteele]

If you use your imagination, I bet that you can think of more than two alternatives for the types of jobs we want. How about high-paying, green union jobs?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:If you use your imagination, I bet that you can think of more than two alternatives for the types of jobs we want. How about high-paying, green union jobs?

But Jeff that is the point. They don't exist. Green jobs are just a promise of something in the future. These companies are ready to hire NOW. The best performing labor sector is in the fossil fuels sector. The oil is there, the natural gas is there. People with out high school degrees can make UNION $100k. Or we can wait around until the Solyndras of the world find a way to finally be profitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/us/rancor-grows-over-planned-oil-pipeline-from-canada.html?_r=2&hpw

EPA, killing the American recovery. Let Americans work!

If you actually read the story you linked to you would be unable to find any evidence that EPA is doing anything to stop this project. The opposition is coming from people (from all walks of life and political parties) who will live in the path of the pipeline and are worried it will rupture and poison their water supplies.

Maybe the pipeline is a good idea and maybe it isn't but your post has nothing to do with reality.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:If you use your imagination, I bet that you can think of more than two alternatives for the types of jobs we want. How about high-paying, green union jobs?

But Jeff that is the point. They don't exist. Green jobs are just a promise of something in the future. These companies are ready to hire NOW. The best performing labor sector is in the fossil fuels sector. The oil is there, the natural gas is there. People with out high school degrees can make UNION $100k. Or we can wait around until the Solyndras of the world find a way to finally be profitable.

There are any number of economic activities that could immediately create jobs but are not allowed due to societal concerns. For instance, I am quite sure that I could employ a number of people if I could legally open a store selling pot and cocaine or a brothel. I would even be happy to unionize my employees. But, society has decided that the greater good outweighs any jobs that I would create. Similarly, a pipeline that delivers high-poluting, sulfur-rich oil while traversing the entire continental United States and crossing two of the most important aquifers in the nation has the potential of high social costs. Any short-term gains in employment to build the pipeline could easily be undone -- and more -- by an environmental catastrophe. Ironically, I am sure you would be in the forefront of blaming union labor for any such catastrophe.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:If you use your imagination, I bet that you can think of more than two alternatives for the types of jobs we want. How about high-paying, green union jobs?

But Jeff that is the point. They don't exist. Green jobs are just a promise of something in the future. These companies are ready to hire NOW. The best performing labor sector is in the fossil fuels sector. The oil is there, the natural gas is there. People with out high school degrees can make UNION $100k. Or we can wait around until the Solyndras of the world find a way to finally be profitable.

There are any number of economic activities that could immediately create jobs but are not allowed due to societal concerns. For instance, I am quite sure that I could employ a number of people if I could legally open a store selling pot and cocaine or a brothel. I would even be happy to unionize my employees. But, society has decided that the greater good outweighs any jobs that I would create. Similarly, a pipeline that delivers high-poluting, sulfur-rich oil while traversing the entire continental United States and crossing two of the most important aquifers in the nation has the potential of high social costs. Any short-term gains in employment to build the pipeline could easily be undone -- and more -- by an environmental catastrophe. Ironically, I am sure you would be in the forefront of blaming union labor for any such catastrophe.

So now Jeff you consider the drilling of the number one fuel that is used to run world's economy akin to drug dealing? I sincerely hope you don't drive your Mercedes or BMW (remember that thread) anymore and bike everywhere, use only a candle for lighting etc. This is how far the left has gone. I'm really appalled by your post because you're usually pretty level headed.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
So now Jeff you consider the drilling of the number one fuel that is used to run world's economy akin to drug dealing? I sincerely hope you don't drive your Mercedes or BMW (remember that thread) anymore and bike everywhere, use only a candle for lighting etc. This is how far the left has gone. I'm really appalled by your post because you're usually pretty level headed.

It actually is very similar to drug dealing. We are addicted to it and it will ultimately kill us. We know that, but refuse to do anything about it. We are willing to inflict significant physical damage on ourselves to continue using it. Yes, I drive a BMW. But, I could quit at any time.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Actually, since there are both real and theoretical alternatives to fossil fuels, it would be much easier to wean ourselves of them long term.

[Anonymous]

1. It's a false choice. You can have both.
2. The EPA and green jobs were not even mentioned. So it's a false Subject header.
3. Pipeline safety and security is a real issue. Groups should be looking at it to prevent bad choices.
4. It will get built. The only thing that hasn't gotten built in the history of energy, aside from drilling in wildlife refuges, is Yucca Mountain. Find me a pipeline that was never approved.