s/o - DC privates are not filled with gifted kids
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Anonymous
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Another poster on the pet peeve thread mentioned that it might be better to spin off this current debate of gifted issues and I agree.
I think my main issue with the the Gifted vs Profoundly Gifted arguments that take place on DCUM is that so many people are under the impression that DC area privates are FILLED with "run of the mill" gifted kids with IQ's around 130 to 140. Because of this untrue belief they feel like these kids (the ones that are actually 98 percentile and higher) are served appropriately is said schools. This is not true and these kids needs aren't usually met with the standard curriculum. There are a few lucky ones with talented teachers who can find ways to do it. But the rest of them are usually underchallenged and allowed to coast in the lower grades. It is true that the DC area has a higher percentage of gifted kids than elsewhere in the country but this does not equate to classes full of them in our schools. I've also heard that ERBs in top DC privates in lower grades usually rank the top performers around the 80th percentile which equates to an IQ around 115 to 120 tops. Early WPPSI scores used in PK & K admissions are unreliable at that age and influenced by enrichment by parents. ERBs are far more accurate. A 130 to 140 IQ child (98th & 99th percentile) is far different from a typical bright and motivated child in a DC private. Here is an idea of what children with these scores are actually doing in the early years. 3.Level Three They know what adults are telling or asking them by six months. You say a toy, pet, or another person, and they will look for it. By the time they are barely 12 months old, they can get family members to do what they want before they are actually talking. By two years, many like 35+ piece puzzles, memorize favorite books, and know the entire alphabet - in or out of order! By three years old, they talk constantly, and skip count, count backwards, and do simple adding and subtracting because they like to. They love to print letters and numbers, too. They ask you to teach them to read before five years, and many figure out how to multiply, divide, and do some fractions soon thereafter. Most of these children are a full two to five years beyond grade level by age six and find school too slow. There are one or two Level Three children in every 100 in the average school. They are rarely in the same elementary class and can feel very, very lonely. So when I am referring to gifted kids I am not referring to profoundly gifted kids. They are such a rare thing that many teachers will never encounter such a child. The info above is from Deborah Ruf, PhD who is an expert in gifted education. She has a book titled, "5 Levels of Giftedness - School Issues and Educational Options". Here is the website that I took the above information from. http://talentigniter.com/ruf-estimates |
Anonymous
| I just started a private in DC and have to say it is going well..my child did score high on the WPPSI and clearly has some "gifts" but I don't know..I don't see her as ever bored..that sort of thing. She is learning to read better and will see if she is not appropriately tasked enough as time goes on. Looking at her friends..you can obviously see differences in ones that maybe wouldn't score as high but they are little kids. That being said..I feel like public would not be a fit because they don't seem to offer anything special in the early grades and our private does. I am actually considering switching to ffc public in third grade as they have a lot of special programs and it's an amazing school system. Personally I look at k as just as important learning to socialize as the other stuff..but I am laid back so maybe it's me. Frankly I see a lot of people really freaking out on worry that their kid won't get enough..what is enough? I felt that public wasn't enough because I thought the class size was higher and teachers really had to focus on kids who needed to get up to speed..private sort of screens that out..well most private. In the end..I really went back and forth on private vs public so I think private while better is maybe only a little better when you are talking really good school systems. |
Anonymous
| My IQ is above 130 but I don't understand the point of you post, OP. Maybe there's a back story? |
Anonymous
There is a backstory on the pet peeves thread. I'm not sure it's worth getting into though! This thread can be a good conversation starter without bringing an argument into it right off the bat. |
Anonymous
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So, OP, your point is?
My DC is in a "big 3," and scored above a 140 on the WPPSI. Right now, the school is a wonderful learning environment for her; she's happy, and she's learning, in K, the social skills that she will need to excel in life (not just school). She's engaged, she has PE every day and recess twice a day with frequent access to a large outdoor playground. Her teachers are smart and observant, and have developed a well-reasoned, age-appropriate curriculum that meets the needs of the children. The kids seem incredibly happy to be at school. I don't see why you are so concerned about private schools not meeting the needs of "highly gifted" children. If you don't feel that a school is a good fit for your child or family, then don't send your child there. Could you state where you've obtained your information about ERBs in "top schools"? Which schools do you include? |
Anonymous
You sound like you have a good perspective. One thing that stuck with me was that the rule of thumb these days is not to tell your kid how smart they are or praise them for their smarts. Praise the effort! It's great advice but if your child isn't challenged enough to need to put forth effort what do you have to praise? Is it the straight A report card? Hopefully not because they certainly didn't work for that! |
Anonymous
Fair enough. But I don't even understand the point being made. It's all so vague. For example, does OP feel that DC privates are (or are not) filled with "gifted" kids but that the schools ignore the profoundly gifted kids? Can someone please just state the case? |
Anonymous
I heard the information in passing at a social gathering. Friend of a friend was a Sidwell administrator and noted that they don't see many gifted kids in lower schools and the conversation progressed from there. This was a few years back but I can't imagine things have changed too drastically. I'm not that concerned about it in general. My concern came out of the fact that teachers were griping about parents requesting help addressing their gifted kid's needs. I'm glad your child is thriving. Many are not though. |
Anonymous
With all respect, PP, your daughter is in kindergarten and most things make 5 yr olds happy unless the teacher really flubs it. Give it time; my children are a little older, at a competitive DC private, and I have to agree with OP (I think; I also don't understand the point?) Your basic Sidwell/GDS/Sheridan/St. Pat's isn't winning any awards for assembling all the gifted (130-40) kids in one spot and teaching them at their level. There is a disappointing amount of one-size-fits-all going on. At least not in 2nd - 6th grade. I can't speak to MS and HS, but I'm hopeful. At these prices, I had better be optimistic for H.S., right? Or else this is all a terrible sham. |
Anonymous
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OP, do you have any stats to back up your claims besides ERBs, which are more a reflection of achievement/knowledge does the kid know math facts) than IQ? Also, while I agree the WPPSI is susceptible to parent coaching or home environment, not all kids slip back down to the 80th pctile by grade 3. Heck my kid's IQ rose during this period (bad test day when he was 4, I guess). For the really bright kids, the IQ scores don't fall.
That said, my kid was really happy, but not challenged, at private school. There's much more challenge at the magnet. I'm with the PP who said that elementary school is not all about going farther faster. FWIW, the middle school kids |
Anonymous
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Oops, hit submit too soon.
FWIW, the middle school magnet kids do algebra and geometry just like their peers in other MoCo schools, but they go deeper. Like other PPs, I'm confused about OP's point. Is she asking whether private school teachers can differentiate? This us a huge conversation for teachers in general. In fact, there's a huge debate in MoCo right now about whether to get rid of ability grouping and rely on the teachers to differentiate. So maybe OP is wondering if private school teachers are any better at differentiating than public school teachers? In our experience, there are teachers who can, snd teachers who can't, in both places. |
Anonymous
I agree that not all kids slip back down.....backslide is more likely to happen if kids aren't challenged appropriately in the early years. A typical child is challenged in a typical classroom in the early years. This is a good thing. It let's them meet their potential and gives them the foundation and appreciation for working hard and meeting goals. This is great for self esteem. Gifted kids should get the same experience and not be allowed to coast. |
Anonymous
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OP, thanks for spinning off this thread. I was one of the posters on the other thread - I've reprinted it at the very bottom of this post so that those who keep asking "What's the point" can perhaps understand better what we're discussing.
I'm interested to hear that your data about the IQ distributions in Lower Schools squares with what I heard from administrators at two other schools. We love almost everything about our very good school, but they do very little to adequately challenge the top percentile kids we are talking about. It is particularly frustrating for us, since there are at least 3-4 of these kids in the grade and they are all bored with the slow pace of things. For us, the biggest worry is that these kids are not learning how to actually try. They coast through easily and therefore never learn the resilience that comes from picking yourself up and trying again after a failure. (I thought this weekend's Sunday NYT Magazine had a great article on this). There is so much animosity and misunderstanding on this board on this topic, which makes me sad. I'm glad for the chance for a civilized discussion of where people agree and disagree. My post from the other board: These last few posts are helpful and moving the discussion forward. I've got a few points to toss in: 1. Most DC private schools are not selecting on academic ability in the lower schools. So the "top" privates are in fact widely varied in the children they serve, with kids ranging from the 70th (and even lower) percentile and up. The bulk of kids in the lower schools of these schools are clustered around the 80th percentile, from the data I have seen administrators share. (Please correct me if you have knowledge otherwise; I'd be genuinely interested). I am not measuring by WPSSI scores here, which can be unreliable and skew by parent coaching, but on Olsat/ERB/etc results. 2. By high school, these schools are selecting heavily on academic ability and are heavily tracked. 3. A curriculum that serves the 80th percentile well is way too easy and slow for kids with IQs of 130ish and up (98%+ percentile) 4. Thus in discussing "gifted" kids needs in the classroom, I think most parents are complaining about lower and early middle school, where teachers in all the big DC privates are asked to teach the same course to kids with a wide range of abilities. 5. I totally agree with the teacher who said that kids in these schools with IQs in the 95-99th percentile are not uncommon. 6. But I totally disagree with her/him that those children are currently adequately served by DCs private schools. They are, for the most part, seriously underchallenged until they hit high school. That's a lot of years of being bored at school. |
Anonymous
I, the OP feel that DC area privates do not cater to the needs of both gifted and profoundly gifted kids in the elementary years. Most curriculums are geared towards very bright and hard working children. They are not set up to challenge a child that is capable of working a full 2 to 5 years ahead of grade level. This is typically what a gifted child (IQ between 130 -140) has the potential to do. This is the level a gifted child would need to get the same challenge and academic sweat that a typical child would receive in a typical classroom. |
Anonymous
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The ERBs are more a measure of whether the kids at a school know math facts and grammar, and how well they know these things compared to other public and indecent schools. A school's accreditation is based in part on ERB scores.
As such, the ERBs are more a reflection of how well the school is doing teaching these things. The student body's ability to absorb these things (IQ) is somewhat important, but the ERBs are not a direct measure of IQ. |