I genuinely don't get saving for college for kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full paying foreign students are avoiding USA because it is a dangerous, racist shithole country.

I think you have that backwards. Full paying foreign students are FLOCKING to the USA because they LIVE in dangerous racist shithole countries.

Foreign students are not avoiding the USA.

MAGAt in the house!

Not true. Foreign students enrollments are expected to drop this year (read a survey put out by college peeps)... Covid and racist crap being a couple of the reasons.

I do hope that's true. More seats for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full paying foreign students are avoiding USA because it is a dangerous, racist shithole country.

I think you have that backwards. Full paying foreign students are FLOCKING to the USA because they LIVE in dangerous racist shithole countries.

Foreign students are not avoiding the USA.

What? Did the pp's statement offend you somehow? Foreign students are afraid our immigration policies will change and they will be kicked out. Our standing in the world is not what it was.

Well, yes, actually, it does offend me when people call the USA a dangerous, racist shithole country.

Does not matter what we call or don't call USA, it is a dangerous, racist, shithole country, lacking decency and compassion for its own people. It is a greedy country.. So I can call it a rose but it will still smell like sewer.

The world watched as the racist gun nuts protested in front of the seat of govt in michigan, Trump asked proud boys to stand by, Kyle Ritylehouse shot people with A k 47. This is a sick country with racists running amok with assault rifles. Foreign students are now going to Canada and other European countries. Besides usa economy will not recover because people don't wear masks...so who wants to pay dollars for distance learning?

I think it is ok if only the rich can go to college. This society is not egalitarian or a meritocracy. Dishonest idiots can get to White House. The world thinks US is a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full paying foreign students are avoiding USA because it is a dangerous, racist shithole country.

I think you have that backwards. Full paying foreign students are FLOCKING to the USA because they LIVE in dangerous racist shithole countries.

Foreign students are not avoiding the USA.

MAGAt in the house!

Not true. Foreign students enrollments are expected to drop this year (read a survey put out by college peeps)... Covid and racist crap being a couple of the reasons.

I do hope that's true. More seats for my kids.

Absolutely great for my full paying kid. Yup, sucks for the poors though or people who did not save.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: I have not read through the entire thread. Culturally, I was raised with the notion that each generation pays for the subsequent generation's education. My parents paid for my college, I am paying for my daughters.

Why? By giving the money for education, you are more likely to have a successful offspring. Education is where we do the intergenerational wealth transfer. My DD may not inherit much, but her undergrad education will be paid for -- and by me paying the 160K over 4 years (state, no aide), DD will be able to pursue her dreams rather than chase the dollar. That means she is more likely to be happy with her career choices. I was able to not chase the dollar, but pursue my interests.

That is my UMC Jewish Privilege.

I am Asian American. I could have written this post except for being UMC. Call it my MC Asian-American Privilege. 👍

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: I have not read through the entire thread. Culturally, I was raised with the notion that each generation pays for the subsequent generation's education. My parents paid for my college, I am paying for my daughters.

Why? By giving the money for education, you are more likely to have a successful offspring. Education is where we do the intergenerational wealth transfer. My DD may not inherit much, but her undergrad education will be paid for -- and by me paying the 160K over 4 years (state, no aide), DD will be able to pursue her dreams rather than chase the dollar. That means she is more likely to be happy with her career choices. I was able to not chase the dollar, but pursue my interests.

That is my UMC Jewish Privilege.

I love this. That is all.

+1

At 24 years old, my son (who graduated debt-free a few years ago) now understands fully the value of the gift of the debt-free education we provided for him. Because he has no debt, he is able to max out his retirement account, buy a car without debt, and save in a rainy-day fund. He sees how his peers struggle and understands the meaning of what we did for him.

Same here, Times three kids. They all got merit scholarships that payed part, but not all of the bill. They all, at different times, have said to us that they really appreciate that we saved and sacrificed to have the money to send them to college because they all have friends who are paying back huge loans now. They see how difficult it is for these friends and realize the freedom they have to make choices because their education was paid for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People save for college so that they can give their kids a head start in life. Your kid may or may not get merit aid. What’s more, the best schools do not give “merit” aid and your income/net worth will count against their need based financial aid. Even a “cheaper” school may be out of reach for your kid in that case. If you can pay as you go, this is obviously not an issue for you. If not, do you really expect your kid to turn down a top tier school or be saddled with tens of thousands in student loans because you didn’t want to save for college? [/quote

This in a nutshell. College is not the same as when I went. Even then I had nearly $80K in loans (from undergrad and grad school). I paid them off but it sucked. And limited what career path I took b/c I needed the money to pay them off. And it set back saving for retirement, buying a home, etc.

My child will be able to mostly anywhere she chooses b/c we saved aggressively for it. I hope she gets some aid based on her grades, etc. Or other scholarships. But, that is FAR from certain. Plenty of smart kids don't get significant scholarships.

We look at this as opening up options and not saddling herself financially as she starts her adult life. I certainly don't want her to experience the struggles I did just b/c of college tuition. It was grim: eating little beyond noodles and cereal type products, no traveling, no home, working MULTIPLE jobs at once while in school to swing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's plan might work because -- (a) she only has one child; (b) she does not seem super concerned about the prestige of the college; and (c) her daughter is a high achiever.

DH and I have 3 kids, and they do fine in school, but are not academic super stars by any means. My DS is a 12th grader, and we recently filled out the Common App that many colleges use. It asks if you plan to apply for financial aid. We figured it helped our DS that we were able to check "no" to that box because we have 529s for each of the 3 kids (thanks to my in-laws). It may help him a bit in the admissions process that he is full pay. That's not really fair to have "full pay" count toward admissions, but perhaps my DS would be subsidizing another student who is a better student but does not have the $$ to pay for this college.

Even my DS (with a 3.1 GPA and similar ACT score) is getting offered some merit aid from (not well known) colleges. So that suggests that, if you have a high-achieving child and are not too picky about the college, it might work out for OP.

Oh my. I was with you until you talked about subsidizing another random student who can't afford college by paying full price for your own. It doesn't quite work the way you think it does. Your ability to pay full price is what's actually inflating higher ed costs and keeping more poorer kids out of college. Not that it's your fault, it's just the current system.

It's not her ability to pay for college. It is the absurd loans the government keeps giving out like candy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's plan might work because -- (a) she only has one child; (b) she does not seem super concerned about the prestige of the college; and (c) her daughter is a high achiever.

DH and I have 3 kids, and they do fine in school, but are not academic super stars by any means. My DS is a 12th grader, and we recently filled out the Common App that many colleges use. It asks if you plan to apply for financial aid. We figured it helped our DS that we were able to check "no" to that box because we have 529s for each of the 3 kids (thanks to my in-laws). It may help him a bit in the admissions process that he is full pay. That's not really fair to have "full pay" count toward admissions, but perhaps my DS would be subsidizing another student who is a better student but does not have the $$ to pay for this college.

Even my DS (with a 3.1 GPA and similar ACT score) is getting offered some merit aid from (not well known) colleges. So that suggests that, if you have a high-achieving child and are not too picky about the college, it might work out for OP.

Oh my. I was with you until you talked about subsidizing another random student who can't afford college by paying full price for your own. It doesn't quite work the way you think it does. Your ability to pay full price is what's actually inflating higher ed costs and keeping more poorer kids out of college. Not that it's your fault, it's just the current system.

It's not her ability to pay for college. It is the absurd loans the government keeps giving out like candy.

Stafford loans cover a fraction of an expensive schools. It's the bankruptcy code that really does it, hopefully that gets changed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. We're older parents. We started saving when our first of 3 was born. 19 years later, we have 3 generous 529s that enable all our kids to go to college more or less where they choose. The downside? Impossible to get financial aid. We also made a lot of sacrifices along the way, despite pretty well-paying jobs. We prioritized. We know we're outliers. No judgement of parents who do things differently... it's unfortunate higher education in this country comes with such a price tag.

You apparently didn't need financial aid, so what's the problem?

New poster.

The problem is moral hazard. Some parents make difficult choices to limit their family size and only have one child. They prioritize funding a 529 and saving instead of taking vacations and leasing expensive cars. Then they don't get financial aid and feel like chumps when other people with the same financial resources who made different decisions over the years get rewarded with financial aid for their children.

If you reward asshole behavior you get more assholes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. We're older parents. We started saving when our first of 3 was born. 19 years later, we have 3 generous 529s that enable all our kids to go to college more or less where they choose. The downside? Impossible to get financial aid. We also made a lot of sacrifices along the way, despite pretty well-paying jobs. We prioritized. We know we're outliers. No judgement of parents who do things differently... it's unfortunate higher education in this country comes with such a price tag.

You apparently didn't need financial aid, so what's the problem?

New poster.

The problem is moral hazard. Some parents make difficult choices to limit their family size and only have one child. They prioritize funding a 529 and saving instead of taking vacations and leasing expensive cars. Then they don't get financial aid and feel like chumps when other people with the same financial resources who made different decisions over the years get rewarded with financial aid for their children.

If you reward asshole behavior you get more assholes.

The FAFSA formula is mostly based on your income to not have a big penalty for savings by parents (savings in the kid's name counts a lot more). So, if you make a high income, even if you haven't saved anything you are going to end up with a big EFC.

[Anonymous]

Merit aid at a decent or good school is only reserved for the top 1%, and that means having a SAT at or very close to 1600.

Tuition at a public institution costs $100k at a minimum.
Good SLACs may have merit aid but it tends to be put the total cost around $120k+ regardless

So yes, you are missing a lot. Tuition has increased, and so have test scores, and so has competition. The entire world's population is competing with US students for a spot at good universities, including publics, and as the rest of the world has developed, they have more than enough wealth and test scores, and generally far more tenacity, to out-compete American-born kids.

American-born kids are also far more competitive academically than before. Highly educated immigrants from Eastern Europe, Asia, India, Africa etc. put a big focus on education, far more so than the average native-born American family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: I have not read through the entire thread. Culturally, I was raised with the notion that each generation pays for the subsequent generation's education. My parents paid for my college, I am paying for my daughters.

Why? By giving the money for education, you are more likely to have a successful offspring. Education is where we do the intergenerational wealth transfer. My DD may not inherit much, but her undergrad education will be paid for -- and by me paying the 160K over 4 years (state, no aide), DD will be able to pursue her dreams rather than chase the dollar. That means she is more likely to be happy with her career choices. I was able to not chase the dollar, but pursue my interests.

That is my UMC Jewish Privilege.

I love this. That is all.

+1

At 24 years old, my son (who graduated debt-free a few years ago) now understands fully the value of the gift of the debt-free education we provided for him. Because he has no debt, he is able to max out his retirement account, buy a car without debt, and save in a rainy-day fund. He sees how his peers struggle and understands the meaning of what we did for him. We also do not believe that “successful offspring” comes from signing a check. Building resiliency and grit do.

I guess that is the cultural difference. In our family we do not believe in parents removing struggles. We believe that struggle is a GOOD thing. Struggle is something to embrace. It builds character, grit, and breeds success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: I have not read through the entire thread. Culturally, I was raised with the notion that each generation pays for the subsequent generation's education. My parents paid for my college, I am paying for my daughters.

Why? By giving the money for education, you are more likely to have a successful offspring. Education is where we do the intergenerational wealth transfer. My DD may not inherit much, but her undergrad education will be paid for -- and by me paying the 160K over 4 years (state, no aide), DD will be able to pursue her dreams rather than chase the dollar. That means she is more likely to be happy with her career choices. I was able to not chase the dollar, but pursue my interests.

That is my UMC Jewish Privilege.

I love this. That is all.

+1

At 24 years old, my son (who graduated debt-free a few years ago) now understands fully the value of the gift of the debt-free education we provided for him. Because he has no debt, he is able to max out his retirement account, buy a car without debt, and save in a rainy-day fund. He sees how his peers struggle and understands the meaning of what we did for him. We also do not believe that “successful offspring” comes from signing a check. Building resiliency and grit do.

I guess that is the cultural difference. In our family we do not believe in parents removing struggles. We believe that struggle is a GOOD thing. Struggle is something to embrace. It builds character, grit, and breeds success.

In other contexts, I agree with you. I believe in kids needing to struggle for what they want. That is unquestionably a positive thing, ultimately. But struggling financially in adulthood? That just sucks. And it puts you behind in virtually every way, financially speaking. It delays people’s ability to buy a house, begin saving for retirement, begin a family. The list goes on. The impact lasts for decades.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-misunderstood-consequences-of-the-student-debt-crisis/254355/

“There are plenty of other reasons to worry, though. First, the growth of student debt is making it harder and harder to enter the middle class, or to stay there. When teenagers are forced to take out loans in order to pay for their education -- the median graduate who takes out loans* leaves school $12,800 in debt -- it acts as a tax on their future wages. It postpones their ability to settle down, buy a home, and have children. That's tragic for them, and it's tragic for us, because it means less money will flow into other, more productive parts of the economy.

In other words, think of student debt as an economic parasite -- a tape worm, if you will. It won't kill the economy quickly, but it will sap the life out of it over time.”

https://www.aascu.org/uploadedFiles/AASCU/Content/Root/PolicyAndAdvocacy/PolicyPublications/StudentDebtBurden.pdf

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/student-loan-debt-is-keeping-young-people-from-buying-homes-fed-study-finds.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: I have not read through the entire thread. Culturally, I was raised with the notion that each generation pays for the subsequent generation's education. My parents paid for my college, I am paying for my daughters.

Why? By giving the money for education, you are more likely to have a successful offspring. Education is where we do the intergenerational wealth transfer. My DD may not inherit much, but her undergrad education will be paid for -- and by me paying the 160K over 4 years (state, no aide), DD will be able to pursue her dreams rather than chase the dollar. That means she is more likely to be happy with her career choices. I was able to not chase the dollar, but pursue my interests.

That is my UMC Jewish Privilege.

I love this. That is all.

+1

At 24 years old, my son (who graduated debt-free a few years ago) now understands fully the value of the gift of the debt-free education we provided for him. Because he has no debt, he is able to max out his retirement account, buy a car without debt, and save in a rainy-day fund. He sees how his peers struggle and understands the meaning of what we did for him. We also do not believe that “successful offspring” comes from signing a check. Building resiliency and grit do.

I guess that is the cultural difference. In our family we do not believe in parents removing struggles. We believe that struggle is a GOOD thing. Struggle is something to embrace. It builds character, grit, and breeds success.

A couple of generations or so ago, sure. Letting a young adult Enter the working world with massive debt is not a matter of 'building grit', yay! It is pushing them into potentially serious struggle with securing healthcare and decent housing... throw in just a little bit of bad luck, and the consequences are devastating.

And honestly, you are removing struggles for your children everyday. You didn't consider the school district when buying or renting your home? You don't do things to make their lives easier? You for sure do. Which is fine, it's all fine. I just don't buy the not providing money for college thing as, well we have to let them build grit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: I have not read through the entire thread. Culturally, I was raised with the notion that each generation pays for the subsequent generation's education. My parents paid for my college, I am paying for my daughters.

Why? By giving the money for education, you are more likely to have a successful offspring. Education is where we do the intergenerational wealth transfer. My DD may not inherit much, but her undergrad education will be paid for -- and by me paying the 160K over 4 years (state, no aide), DD will be able to pursue her dreams rather than chase the dollar. That means she is more likely to be happy with her career choices. I was able to not chase the dollar, but pursue my interests.

That is my UMC Jewish Privilege.

I love this. That is all.

+1

At 24 years old, my son (who graduated debt-free a few years ago) now understands fully the value of the gift of the debt-free education we provided for him. Because he has no debt, he is able to max out his retirement account, buy a car without debt, and save in a rainy-day fund. He sees how his peers struggle and understands the meaning of what we did for him. We also do not believe that “successful offspring” comes from signing a check. Building resiliency and grit do.

I guess that is the cultural difference. In our family we do not believe in parents removing struggles. We believe that struggle is a GOOD thing. Struggle is something to embrace. It builds character, grit, and breeds success.

A couple of generations or so ago, sure. Letting a young adult Enter the working world with massive debt is not a matter of 'building grit', yay! It is pushing them into potentially serious struggle with securing healthcare and decent housing... throw in just a little bit of bad luck, and the consequences are devastating.

And honestly, you are removing struggles for your children everyday. You didn't consider the school district when buying or renting your home? You don't do things to make their lives easier? You for sure do. Which is fine, it's all fine. I just don't buy the not providing money for college thing as, well we have to let them build grit.

Of course, but at that point they are CHILDREN. I am talking about removing struggles for ADULTS.