Is It Really Gonna Cost $280K? OMG

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Most top colleges don’t offer merit. So unless you are financially challenged you pay or do not go. This is a fact.

Most colleges do offer merit aid to the top of the applicant pool. Ivy Leagues don't give merit aid, but many "top" colleges, however you define it, do.

Top 30. Most do not give merit. Lots of acceptable colleges do.

So would top 30 include places like Wash. U, Amherst, Williams?

Wash U. is recent top 30. But not the liberal arts schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Most top colleges don’t offer merit. So unless you are financially challenged you pay or do not go. This is a fact.

Most colleges do offer merit aid to the top of the applicant pool. Ivy Leagues don't give merit aid, but many "top" colleges, however you define it, do.

Top 30. Most do not give merit. Lots of acceptable colleges do.

So would top 30 include places like Wash. U, Amherst, Williams?

Amherst and Williams do not give merit aid.

WashU gives merit aid to a tiny percentage of admitted applicants - so few that it's nothing to bank on, by any means.

I don't know what PP means by "acceptable" colleges, LOL.

Merit aid at top colleges and LAC is generally not available. I think people get financial aid and tell their friends it’s merit aid. If you want your kid to go to a top school and your family makes 200 plus parents need to save tuition. There is little to no free money.

[Anonymous]

The calculus is pretty straightforward.

If you want to provide your children the option of picking their school independent of financial considerations and they have worked hard and can secure a spot at an top school that is a decision you have made as a family.

If as a family you cannot afford that the decision well than that decision has been made for you and you learn to accept and move on. Hopefully it instills in your DC some grit as they learn a little bit about life.

And if life is such that you can afford full pay but question the value prop well then hunt merit like the rest of the huddled masses and realize that is highly likely that your DC will spend four years having experienced a true life luxury - going away to school. Very few get to enjoy that life experience and if you allow yourself the luxury to take a step back you’ll realize that attending a Top 50-100 school is still pretty darn good.

In my own case neither has attended the top school to which they were admitted and I believe that’s a fairly common outcome. One is thriving at a Midwest SLAC and one is at our State Flagship, working hard, and conserving funds so that she has the option of med school if she is fortunate enough for that to be an option.

So, congrats to your DD. Decide which family you are and if it’s happy to be full pay then realize that life has been good to you, write the check and move on. And moving forward try to be a little more sensitive in your postings because I wonder if you don’t realize that they come across as a humble brag in a forum where a lot parents have had to have some really hard conversations with their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The calculus is pretty straightforward.

If you want to provide your children the option of picking their school independent of financial considerations and they have worked hard and can secure a spot at an top school that is a decision you have made as a family.

If as a family you cannot afford that the decision well than that decision has been made for you and you learn to accept and move on. Hopefully it instills in your DC some grit as they learn a little bit about life.

And if life is such that you can afford full pay but question the value prop well then hunt merit like the rest of the huddled masses and realize that is highly likely that your DC will spend four years having experienced a true life luxury - going away to school. Very few get to enjoy that life experience and if you allow yourself the luxury to take a step back you’ll realize that attending a Top 50-100 school is still pretty darn good.

In my own case neither has attended the top school to which they were admitted and I believe that’s a fairly common outcome. One is thriving at a Midwest SLAC and one is at our State Flagship, working hard, and conserving funds so that she has the option of med school if she is fortunate enough for that to be an option.

So, congrats to your DD. Decide which family you are and if it’s happy to be full pay then realize that life has been good to you, write the check and move on. And moving forward try to be a little more sensitive in your postings because I wonder if you don’t realize that they come across as a humble brag in a forum where a lot parents have had to have some really hard conversations with their kids.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a thing I notice about these threads:

Those that are full pay often say something like "it sucks but we saved and it was the right decision for us" (similar to OP).

Those that choose to NOT be fully pay and choose schools accordingly often say "it's not worth it to anyone".

I think both of those statements come from internal conflict and doubt about the decision they have made. However, only one of them attacks the other's decision. Why do you think that is the case?

I posted earlier that the private "prestigious" colleges my kids were accepted to are not worth the money. I stand by that statement. Disprove it, please.

Oh, and BTW, my kid's best friend from no-name state U is now at Harvard for grad school. Guess going in-state didn't hurt that kid.

The Lucky Charms leprechaun is real. Disprove it please. You’re the biggest moron on this board and that is an achievement.

[Anonymous]

"worth it" is such a vague, value-judgment laden term. My kid may never recoup the money we're paying for college, but is nevertheless getting a fine education and is happy with the school - so what? It's a bit of a sacrifice, but as spouse says "what else are we going to do with this money that's better than financing our kid's education?"

[Anonymous]

There are a few top schools that offer merit - you can find this on their websites. But, it's either tiny amounts or so competitive as to be absurd to rely upon. Best to pretend it doesn't exist.

As for whether top undergrad for full pay is worth it, that depends entirely on a bunch of individual factors, such as major/field of study and family financial situation. Most privates in the top 50 cost about the same. For many kids, the choice isn't Harvard vs state u, it's (for example) WashU/Rice/Emory/CMU/TUfts sort of school vs state U. Not worth the cost of borrowing huge amounts, but if the money is sitting in a 529, why not. It just depends. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question.

[Anonymous]

Very few get to enjoy that life experience and if you allow yourself the luxury to take a step back you’ll realize that attending a Top 50-100 school is still pretty darn good.
+1.

At my T14 law school (for example), many of my classmates had attended their T50-100 state flagships for undergrad and had great outcomes out of law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very few get to enjoy that life experience and if you allow yourself the luxury to take a step back you’ll realize that attending a Top 50-100 school is still pretty darn good.
+1.

At my T14 law school (for example), many of my classmates had attended their T50-100 state flagships for undergrad and had great outcomes out of law school.

When you use the standard T14, are you just saying your law school was 14?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few get to enjoy that life experience and if you allow yourself the luxury to take a step back you’ll realize that attending a Top 50-100 school is still pretty darn good.
+1.

At my T14 law school (for example), many of my classmates had attended their T50-100 state flagships for undergrad and had great outcomes out of law school.

When you use the standard T14, are you just saying your law school was 14?

No, T14 is a group commonly referred to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few get to enjoy that life experience and if you allow yourself the luxury to take a step back you’ll realize that attending a Top 50-100 school is still pretty darn good.
+1.

At my T14 law school (for example), many of my classmates had attended their T50-100 state flagships for undergrad and had great outcomes out of law school.

When you use the standard T14, are you just saying your law school was 14?

No, T14 is a group commonly referred to.

+1

T14 is a recognized terms because (1) there are 5-6 schools that rotate in USNEWS law school ranking spots 9-14 depending on the year, and (2) no new school has moved into a top 14 spot in a very long time.

[Anonymous]

It depends on what you want to do with a law degree. Of course, almost all practicing lawyers are in the larger scheme of things.

Law is pretty hierarchical even within the overall successful group. If money is how you define success schooling may be less important. Some of the wealthiest lawyers work for themselves, hang a shingle and do personal injury or class action law. One can also be successful practicing commercial law at a law firm. Law firms also have a wide range of reputations and profitability.

But elite lawyers are likely to be graduates of elite schools. It is often argued that undergrad makes no difference but if you look at Supreme Court Justices that argument falls on its face. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/meet-sitting-supreme-court-justices/story?id=37229761.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of judging people's choices of HOW they will be paying for college...

How about we all ask the question, WHY does college cost $280K????

Because it is and people are still willing to pay!

And because the student loan industry gives schools every incentive to keep jacking up tuition at a rate that far outpaces inflation.





Source: David Stockman

This is a very telling chart. First, let us look at the biggest line item with housing. A new home today costs $270,200. That 1975 home adjusting for inflation would cost $209,417. This is a “real” increase of 29 percent. A new car costs $31,252 while that 1975 car adjusting for inflation would cost $16,578. This is a true doubling of cost here. Public college costs are up over 150% while private college costs are up over 160%. And you wonder why we have over $1.3 trillion in student debt outstanding.

What is more affordable relative to inflation? Milk, eggs, and a postage stamp. Unfortunately these are tiny line items on your household budget.

What you need to look at is the median income here. US households overall are simply poorer. They have less to spend relative to the cost of goods and services. Money is only as good as what it can purchase. You can’t eat hundred dollar bills. This is part of the reason why many people feel like they are poorer. It is also a big reason as to why the homeownership rate continues to fall.

+1

The items that are purchased with loans are going up hugely in cost. I think that, in part,if interest rates were higher, the cost for houses, cars, and college would be lower. Purchasers are looking at the monthly payments and closing their eyes to the total cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of judging people's choices of HOW they will be paying for college...

How about we all ask the question, WHY does college cost $280K????

Yes, that's the real question. And in a few years, it's going to top $100K per year. Salaries are not increasing at that rate.

Those who have the $$ to pay are missing this point. Do you really want your kids going to college only with other children of rich people, and those poor enough to receive FA?

That cuts out a lot of very bright kids.

As I understand it, the outrageous increases in college prices began when student loans became plentiful. Everyone was offered student loans, so everyone borrowed lots of money to go to college, which is insane, but it brought a huge pool of money into these private colleges, and they increased their prices every year as a result.

As a result, the marketing departments of these private colleges grew exponentially. Look at all those slick brochures your kid receives, even from the most elite colleges. It's sickening the amount of money they pay to market themselves.

The humble brags on this thread are annoying. Good for you if you are lucky enough to pay $75K for less than 9 months of college for your kid. That's nice for you, but it does not address the problem that most people cannot begin to afford $280K for a four-year college degree, and double or triple that if you've got multiple college-bound kids.

Another factor in the massive tuition increases we've seen is that states started electing Republican governors who cut funding to state universities, leaving them no choice than to jack up tuition. We all pay the price (far more than we would have paid in taxes to keep subsidies at the same levels) for those votes. There's a thread on this.

https://newrepublic.com/article/135972/republican-war-public-universities

And another is the corporationification of universities resulting in hiring expensive administrators emulating a business model and compensation design of corporations.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The calculus is pretty straightforward.

If you want to provide your children the option of picking their school independent of financial considerations and they have worked hard and can secure a spot at an top school that is a decision you have made as a family.

If as a family you cannot afford that the decision well than that decision has been made for you and you learn to accept and move on. Hopefully it instills in your DC some grit as they learn a little bit about life.

And if life is such that you can afford full pay but question the value prop well then hunt merit like the rest of the huddled masses and realize that is highly likely that your DC will spend four years having experienced a true life luxury - going away to school. Very few get to enjoy that life experience and if you allow yourself the luxury to take a step back you’ll realize that attending a Top 50-100 school is still pretty darn good.

In my own case neither has attended the top school to which they were admitted and I believe that’s a fairly common outcome. One is thriving at a Midwest SLAC and one is at our State Flagship, working hard, and conserving funds so that she has the option of med school if she is fortunate enough for that to be an option.

So, congrats to your DD. Decide which family you are and if it’s happy to be full pay then realize that life has been good to you, write the check and move on. And moving forward try to be a little more sensitive in your postings because I wonder if you don’t realize that they come across as a humble brag in a forum where a lot parents have had to have some really hard conversations with their kids.

NP. Also, whatever you decide to do as a family, set the expectations early so there aren't any broken hearts. We are already telling our 5 and 7 year old that we will pay for half of in state for them. They hear us taking about what we're putting away in their 529s. THey are too little to really know what it means, but we're getting them used to the idea that college is important but it costs a lot of money, more than we have.