Is anyone else here Jewish and celebrate Christmas?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.

If Judaism is reduced to Hannukah the game is already lost.

So I'm supposed to teach him that by dint of the slight majority of Ashkenazi genes, he's Jewish and not Catholic?

If you want to raise him as Catholic, that is your choice. Just don't blame "hanukah is not as good as christmas" for his desire to not identify as Jewish. Jews who participate more fully in Judaism are not as obsessed with the christmas vs hanukkah comparison.

A person born Jewish is Jewish no matter what they celebrate or how fully they participate in your narrow view of Judaism. You don't get to tell other Jews that they are not doing Jewish right. People with your judgmental attitude are one reason many Jews don't "participate."

Uh-huh. Not judging is another Christian concept you have absorbed. Jews are responsible for other Jews and preserving our culture. Jews who do practice Judaism but practice Christianity, Islam, etc. are no longer Jews.

The Torah disagrees with you.

WRONG IT DOES NOT

You must not be Jewish. If you were, you would know that anyone born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism, is Jewish. You can be baptized and Jewish law still considers you a Jew. Even your mother can have been baptized. There is no "out" of Jewishness, even if you never practice the religion and even if you have a Christmas tree. Which is not to say anyone is forcing a Jewish identity on those who don't want it, but rather that it is always there to claim. If you are a Jew, then you need to study some Torah. If you are not, then you need to myob.

First, conversions can be invalidated. Second, most rabbis would require a symbolic conversion back to Judaism if you convert to another religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.

If Judaism is reduced to Hannukah the game is already lost.

So I'm supposed to teach him that by dint of the slight majority of Ashkenazi genes, he's Jewish and not Catholic?

If you want to raise him as Catholic, that is your choice. Just don't blame "hanukah is not as good as christmas" for his desire to not identify as Jewish. Jews who participate more fully in Judaism are not as obsessed with the christmas vs hanukkah comparison.

A person born Jewish is Jewish no matter what they celebrate or how fully they participate in your narrow view of Judaism. You don't get to tell other Jews that they are not doing Jewish right. People with your judgmental attitude are one reason many Jews don't "participate."

Uh-huh. Not judging is another Christian concept you have absorbed. Jews are responsible for other Jews and preserving our culture. Jews who do practice Judaism but practice Christianity, Islam, etc. are no longer Jews.

The Torah disagrees with you.

WRONG IT DOES NOT

You must not be Jewish. If you were, you would know that anyone born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism, is Jewish. You can be baptized and Jewish law still considers you a Jew. Even your mother can have been baptized. There is no "out" of Jewishness, even if you never practice the religion and even if you have a Christmas tree. Which is not to say anyone is forcing a Jewish identity on those who don't want it, but rather that it is always there to claim. If you are a Jew, then you need to study some Torah. If you are not, then you need to myob.

First, conversions can be invalidated. Second, most rabbis would require a symbolic conversion back to Judaism if you convert to another religion.

Not sure where you are getting this information, but it is incorrect. I don't know anything about conversions because I was born Jewish, but I know that a rabbi has nothing to do with whether a person is Jewish or not. Require for what exactly?? Membership to a synagogue is also not required to be Jewish. A person need never set foot in one or talk to a rabbi. And certainly, putting up a Christmas tree does not in any way invalidate a person's Jewishness. You can break every Jewish law, and you are still, by Jewish law, a Jew. Once a Jew, always a Jew. That is incontrovertible and there is no gray area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.

If Judaism is reduced to Hannukah the game is already lost.

So I'm supposed to teach him that by dint of the slight majority of Ashkenazi genes, he's Jewish and not Catholic?

If you want to raise him as Catholic, that is your choice. Just don't blame "hanukah is not as good as christmas" for his desire to not identify as Jewish. Jews who participate more fully in Judaism are not as obsessed with the christmas vs hanukkah comparison.

A person born Jewish is Jewish no matter what they celebrate or how fully they participate in your narrow view of Judaism. You don't get to tell other Jews that they are not doing Jewish right. People with your judgmental attitude are one reason many Jews don't "participate."

Uh-huh. Not judging is another Christian concept you have absorbed. Jews are responsible for other Jews and preserving our culture. Jews who do practice Judaism but practice Christianity, Islam, etc. are no longer Jews.

The Torah disagrees with you.

WRONG IT DOES NOT

You must not be Jewish. If you were, you would know that anyone born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism, is Jewish. You can be baptized and Jewish law still considers you a Jew. Even your mother can have been baptized. There is no "out" of Jewishness, even if you never practice the religion and even if you have a Christmas tree. Which is not to say anyone is forcing a Jewish identity on those who don't want it, but rather that it is always there to claim. If you are a Jew, then you need to study some Torah. If you are not, then you need to myob.

First, conversions can be invalidated. Second, most rabbis would require a symbolic conversion back to Judaism if you convert to another religion.

Not sure where you are getting this information, but it is incorrect. I don't know anything about conversions because I was born Jewish, but I know that a rabbi has nothing to do with whether a person is Jewish or not. Require for what exactly?? Membership to a synagogue is also not required to be Jewish. A person need never set foot in one or talk to a rabbi. And certainly, putting up a Christmas tree does not in any way invalidate a person's Jewishness. You can break every Jewish law, and you are still, by Jewish law, a Jew. Once a Jew, always a Jew. That is incontrovertible and there is no gray area.

DP and Jewish. Yes, halachically-speaking (according to Jewish law), someone born Jewish is always Jewish, even if they convert to another religion. But I think there's a difference between the technical legal/halachic status of a Jew who celebrates Christmas (even if they do it "secularly" and haven't converted to Christianity) and the lived reality of other Jews interacting with that person. I think most Jewish people would interact with you differently if you celebrate Christmas. Basically, technical acceptance in the Jewish community is not the same as being accepted by the Jewish community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.

If Judaism is reduced to Hannukah the game is already lost.

So I'm supposed to teach him that by dint of the slight majority of Ashkenazi genes, he's Jewish and not Catholic?

If you want to raise him as Catholic, that is your choice. Just don't blame "hanukah is not as good as christmas" for his desire to not identify as Jewish. Jews who participate more fully in Judaism are not as obsessed with the christmas vs hanukkah comparison.

A person born Jewish is Jewish no matter what they celebrate or how fully they participate in your narrow view of Judaism. You don't get to tell other Jews that they are not doing Jewish right. People with your judgmental attitude are one reason many Jews don't "participate."

Uh-huh. Not judging is another Christian concept you have absorbed. Jews are responsible for other Jews and preserving our culture. Jews who do practice Judaism but practice Christianity, Islam, etc. are no longer Jews.

The Torah disagrees with you.

WRONG IT DOES NOT

You must not be Jewish. If you were, you would know that anyone born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism, is Jewish. You can be baptized and Jewish law still considers you a Jew. Even your mother can have been baptized. There is no "out" of Jewishness, even if you never practice the religion and even if you have a Christmas tree. Which is not to say anyone is forcing a Jewish identity on those who don't want it, but rather that it is always there to claim. If you are a Jew, then you need to study some Torah. If you are not, then you need to myob.

First, conversions can be invalidated. Second, most rabbis would require a symbolic conversion back to Judaism if you convert to another religion.

Not sure where you are getting this information, but it is incorrect. I don't know anything about conversions because I was born Jewish, but I know that a rabbi has nothing to do with whether a person is Jewish or not. Require for what exactly?? Membership to a synagogue is also not required to be Jewish. A person need never set foot in one or talk to a rabbi. And certainly, putting up a Christmas tree does not in any way invalidate a person's Jewishness. You can break every Jewish law, and you are still, by Jewish law, a Jew. Once a Jew, always a Jew. That is incontrovertible and there is no gray area.

DP and Jewish. Yes, halachically-speaking (according to Jewish law), someone born Jewish is always Jewish, even if they convert to another religion. But I think there's a difference between the technical legal/halachic status of a Jew who celebrates Christmas (even if they do it "secularly" and haven't converted to Christianity) and the lived reality of other Jews interacting with that person. I think most Jewish people would interact with you differently if you celebrate Christmas. Basically, technical acceptance in the Jewish community is not the same as being accepted by the Jewish community.

I wasn't talking about acceptance in any community. Fact is, Jews are really judgmental about how other Jews practice or don't practice. Even being part of the wrong synagogue or wrong branch of Judaism will get you the stink eye from a lot of Jews. It just doesn't make a person any more or less Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Reform Jew here, who married a non-religious woman that grew up celebrating a secular Christmas. We celebrate Chanukah and Christmas, and it's great - lights, presents, tons of food, lots of family, Santa Claus, Christmas movies, the whole thing - but no church. I love it - it is so much fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reform Jew here, who married a non-religious woman that grew up celebrating a secular Christmas. We celebrate Chanukah and Christmas, and it's great - lights, presents, tons of food, lots of family, Santa Claus, Christmas movies, the whole thing - but no church. I love it - it is so much fun.

I'll tell you, my husband's Reform grandparents used to say that. They had a Christmas tree "for the children." It was a slippery slope. Only one of their grandchildren married in (my DH), and only one of their great-grandchildren is Jewish (my kid) is Jewish today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.

If Judaism is reduced to Hannukah the game is already lost.

So I'm supposed to teach him that by dint of the slight majority of Ashkenazi genes, he's Jewish and not Catholic?

If you want to raise him as Catholic, that is your choice. Just don't blame "hanukah is not as good as christmas" for his desire to not identify as Jewish. Jews who participate more fully in Judaism are not as obsessed with the christmas vs hanukkah comparison.

A person born Jewish is Jewish no matter what they celebrate or how fully they participate in your narrow view of Judaism. You don't get to tell other Jews that they are not doing Jewish right. People with your judgmental attitude are one reason many Jews don't "participate."

Uh-huh. Not judging is another Christian concept you have absorbed. Jews are responsible for other Jews and preserving our culture. Jews who do practice Judaism but practice Christianity, Islam, etc. are no longer Jews.

The Torah disagrees with you.

WRONG IT DOES NOT

You must not be Jewish. If you were, you would know that anyone born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism, is Jewish. You can be baptized and Jewish law still considers you a Jew. Even your mother can have been baptized. There is no "out" of Jewishness, even if you never practice the religion and even if you have a Christmas tree. Which is not to say anyone is forcing a Jewish identity on those who don't want it, but rather that it is always there to claim. If you are a Jew, then you need to study some Torah. If you are not, then you need to myob.

First, conversions can be invalidated. Second, most rabbis would require a symbolic conversion back to Judaism if you convert to another religion.

Not sure where you are getting this information, but it is incorrect. I don't know anything about conversions because I was born Jewish, but I know that a rabbi has nothing to do with whether a person is Jewish or not. Require for what exactly?? Membership to a synagogue is also not required to be Jewish. A person need never set foot in one or talk to a rabbi. And certainly, putting up a Christmas tree does not in any way invalidate a person's Jewishness. You can break every Jewish law, and you are still, by Jewish law, a Jew. Once a Jew, always a Jew. That is incontrovertible and there is no gray area.

DP and Jewish. Yes, halachically-speaking (according to Jewish law), someone born Jewish is always Jewish, even if they convert to another religion. But I think there's a difference between the technical legal/halachic status of a Jew who celebrates Christmas (even if they do it "secularly" and haven't converted to Christianity) and the lived reality of other Jews interacting with that person. I think most Jewish people would interact with you differently if you celebrate Christmas. Basically, technical acceptance in the Jewish community is not the same as being accepted by the Jewish community.

I wasn't talking about acceptance in any community. Fact is, Jews are really judgmental about how other Jews practice or don't practice. Even being part of the wrong synagogue or wrong branch of Judaism will get you the stink eye from a lot of Jews. It just doesn't make a person any more or less Jewish.

What are you talking about? I am a Jew who celebrates Christmas secularly. My mom goes to the synagogue and she and her friends who go there know I celebrate. No one has ever been judgemental, even her most religious friends. They know I put up a tree and Christmas decorations on my window but they don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reform Jew here, who married a non-religious woman that grew up celebrating a secular Christmas. We celebrate Chanukah and Christmas, and it's great - lights, presents, tons of food, lots of family, Santa Claus, Christmas movies, the whole thing - but no church. I love it - it is so much fun.

I'll tell you, my husband's Reform grandparents used to say that. They had a Christmas tree "for the children." It was a slippery slope. Only one of their grandchildren married in (my DH), and only one of their great-grandchildren is Jewish (my kid) is Jewish today.

It's a slippery slope only if you think practicing Judaism through the generations is important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reform Jew here, who married a non-religious woman that grew up celebrating a secular Christmas. We celebrate Chanukah and Christmas, and it's great - lights, presents, tons of food, lots of family, Santa Claus, Christmas movies, the whole thing - but no church. I love it - it is so much fun.

I'll tell you, my husband's Reform grandparents used to say that. They had a Christmas tree "for the children." It was a slippery slope. Only one of their grandchildren married in (my DH), and only one of their great-grandchildren is Jewish (my kid) is Jewish today.

It's a slippery slope only if you think practicing Judaism through the generations is important.

That's a pretty fundamental charge in both our religion and culture. "From generation to generation" and all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reform Jew here, who married a non-religious woman that grew up celebrating a secular Christmas. We celebrate Chanukah and Christmas, and it's great - lights, presents, tons of food, lots of family, Santa Claus, Christmas movies, the whole thing - but no church. I love it - it is so much fun.

I'll tell you, my husband's Reform grandparents used to say that. They had a Christmas tree "for the children." It was a slippery slope. Only one of their grandchildren married in (my DH), and only one of their great-grandchildren is Jewish (my kid) is Jewish today.

It's a slippery slope only if you think practicing Judaism through the generations is important.

Exactly! As we have said we Jews who celebrate Christmas WANT to be Christians - Jesus is the Moshiach. All the cool kids think so!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reform Jew here, who married a non-religious woman that grew up celebrating a secular Christmas. We celebrate Chanukah and Christmas, and it's great - lights, presents, tons of food, lots of family, Santa Claus, Christmas movies, the whole thing - but no church. I love it - it is so much fun.

I'll tell you, my husband's Reform grandparents used to say that. They had a Christmas tree "for the children." It was a slippery slope. Only one of their grandchildren married in (my DH), and only one of their great-grandchildren is Jewish (my kid) is Jewish today.

NP. My husband's reform grandparents had a Christmas tree and every single one of their eight great grandchildren has had a bar/bat mitzvah. People don't become less observant due to the magical pull of Christmas trees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reform Jew here, who married a non-religious woman that grew up celebrating a secular Christmas. We celebrate Chanukah and Christmas, and it's great - lights, presents, tons of food, lots of family, Santa Claus, Christmas movies, the whole thing - but no church. I love it - it is so much fun.

I'll tell you, my husband's Reform grandparents used to say that. They had a Christmas tree "for the children." It was a slippery slope. Only one of their grandchildren married in (my DH), and only one of their great-grandchildren is Jewish (my kid) is Jewish today.

It's a slippery slope only if you think practicing Judaism through the generations is important.

Exactly! As we have said we Jews who celebrate Christmas WANT to be Christians - Jesus is the Moshiach. All the cool kids think so!

...Is this sarcasm? Or are you really here in the middle of Hanukkah proselytizing? lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I came up 100 percent from one small eastern european country on 23 and me---and actually not just the country but the village area where my great grandmother was from---but that does not define my race. Im just saying I have no idea if Askenazi or Sephardic are racial groups (and I totally want to stay out of that discussion) but I do know that 23 and me can pinpoint exact geographical region--down to country and even village.

Jewish is not a race. It's an ethnicity. Ahskenazi is listed under European in 23andme.

It's akin to being tigray (an ethiopian ethnicity) or yoruba (nigerian ethnicity) and black african

Ashkenazi people are white. It's hilarious the lengths some jews go to try to be seen as nonwhite.

It's pathetic and ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I came up 100 percent from one small eastern european country on 23 and me---and actually not just the country but the village area where my great grandmother was from---but that does not define my race. Im just saying I have no idea if Askenazi or Sephardic are racial groups (and I totally want to stay out of that discussion) but I do know that 23 and me can pinpoint exact geographical region--down to country and even village.

Jewish is not a race. It's an ethnicity. Ahskenazi is listed under European in 23andme.

It's akin to being tigray (an ethiopian ethnicity) or yoruba (nigerian ethnicity) and black african

Ashkenazi people are white. It's hilarious the lengths some jews go to try to be seen as nonwhite.

It's pathetic and ridiculous.

Whoopi?

[Anonymous]

Maybe it’s just a comment on the generic, assimilationist, wasp-y nature of the DC area.