Thoughts on McKinley or Discovery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its extremely important to McKinley parents that they be THE MOST overcrowded. They can twist all data to support this view.
They are not the only ones to do this- the Claremont folks also share those tendencies.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf

Maybe you should do your research and cite to the correct numbers before you start posting. You linked to the projection spreadsheet that was reviewed by the outside consultant this spring and found to be wrong. These numbers were all updated this spring and are available on the APS website. The link to the corrected projection spreadsheet is posted upthread.

And Claremont is bursting at the seams. They don't even have a room capable of holding all the kids for assembly. Have you ever been to the school? You sound like an uninformed jerk.

And Oakridge went over 800 students last year. This is a problem for a lot of schools. Difference is, AFAIK, Oakridge and even Claremont still have green space. And they didn't just complete a renovation and expansion at those schools only to find themselves STILL over capacity.

How does McKinley do outdoor recess without green space? Do the kids not get to go outside? That would suck.

Not a McKinley parent, but my understanding is they do go outside. They still have a playground. But sports are played on the paved surfaces (maybe the drop-off circle or something). It's not the end of the world, but it's far from ideal. I don't think any of our ES should be over 700 students. That just seems crazy to me. But it's the new reality.

As a parent at ASFS, another overcrowded disaster, they just took the basketball court and put another relocatable (aka a trailer) on it. It was a choice between losing the hardtop surface or the playing field. I have a little boy. We're looking at our options (private or Fairfax Co), because every school is projected to just see increased enrollment each year. No one seems to know how to get elementary schools back to 700 and restore outdoor playspaces for our kids.

I do. Build more elementary schools and have them include outdoor play spaces. It's not, er, rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its extremely important to McKinley parents that they be THE MOST overcrowded. They can twist all data to support this view.
They are not the only ones to do this- the Claremont folks also share those tendencies.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf

Maybe you should do your research and cite to the correct numbers before you start posting. You linked to the projection spreadsheet that was reviewed by the outside consultant this spring and found to be wrong. These numbers were all updated this spring and are available on the APS website. The link to the corrected projection spreadsheet is posted upthread.

And Claremont is bursting at the seams. They don't even have a room capable of holding all the kids for assembly. Have you ever been to the school? You sound like an uninformed jerk.

And Oakridge went over 800 students last year. This is a problem for a lot of schools. Difference is, AFAIK, Oakridge and even Claremont still have green space. And they didn't just complete a renovation and expansion at those schools only to find themselves STILL over capacity.

How does McKinley do outdoor recess without green space? Do the kids not get to go outside? That would suck.

Not a McKinley parent, but my understanding is they do go outside. They still have a playground. But sports are played on the paved surfaces (maybe the drop-off circle or something). It's not the end of the world, but it's far from ideal. I don't think any of our ES should be over 700 students. That just seems crazy to me. But it's the new reality.

As a parent at ASFS, another overcrowded disaster, they just took the basketball court and put another relocatable (aka a trailer) on it. It was a choice between losing the hardtop surface or the playing field. I have a little boy. We're looking at our options (private or Fairfax Co), because every school is projected to just see increased enrollment each year. No one seems to know how to get elementary schools back to 700 and restore outdoor playspaces for our kids.

I do. Build more elementary schools and have them include outdoor play spaces. It's not, er, rocket science.

On what land?

[Anonymous]

Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:its extremely important to McKinley parents that they be THE MOST overcrowded. They can twist all data to support this view.
They are not the only ones to do this- the Claremont folks also share those tendencies.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf

Maybe you should do your research and cite to the correct numbers before you start posting. You linked to the projection spreadsheet that was reviewed by the outside consultant this spring and found to be wrong. These numbers were all updated this spring and are available on the APS website. The link to the corrected projection spreadsheet is posted upthread.

And Claremont is bursting at the seams. They don't even have a room capable of holding all the kids for assembly. Have you ever been to the school? You sound like an uninformed jerk.

And Oakridge went over 800 students last year. This is a problem for a lot of schools. Difference is, AFAIK, Oakridge and even Claremont still have green space. And they didn't just complete a renovation and expansion at those schools only to find themselves STILL over capacity.

How does McKinley do outdoor recess without green space? Do the kids not get to go outside? That would suck.

Not a McKinley parent, but my understanding is they do go outside. They still have a playground. But sports are played on the paved surfaces (maybe the drop-off circle or something). It's not the end of the world, but it's far from ideal. I don't think any of our ES should be over 700 students. That just seems crazy to me. But it's the new reality.

As a parent at ASFS, another overcrowded disaster, they just took the basketball court and put another relocatable (aka a trailer) on it. It was a choice between losing the hardtop surface or the playing field. I have a little boy. We're looking at our options (private or Fairfax Co), because every school is projected to just see increased enrollment each year. No one seems to know how to get elementary schools back to 700 and restore outdoor playspaces for our kids.

It's takes money and space to build more schools. Space is hard to find, and there's a large enough population that doesn't have school-aged kids and who are increasingly pushing back on school bonds. The board had to keep the bonds more modest or they risk them not getting passed at all, but it means there's simply less funding for school infrastructure than the county needs to keep up with the growing school-aged population.

Yeah, those old timers who got to send their kids through APS without worrying about overcrowding, who refuse to return their underutilized community centers back to schools, and who, at the same time, want their real estate taxes to be indefinitely deferred. You know, so that their heirs don't even have to pay the county back when their home is sold to a developed for ten times what they paid for it in 1960 whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
1- the idea that McKinley is packed to the gills and the other schools around have space. Utilizing the most recent projections- (Spring Update- https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SpringUpdate_and_Revised_FallProjections17-26_Final.pdf) McKinley has a seat deficit of 74 and Glebe has a seat deficit of 64. When you add in Glebe's special ed preschoolers- Glebe has a seat deficit of 78. (You don't add in McKinley's montessori classroom b/c it is actually housed at the Reed School.) Tuckahoe has a seat deficit of 4- when you add in Tuckahoe's special ed preschoolers that goes to 16. Nottingham has seats for 12 students. Discovery has seats for 60- but when you add in the two preschool classes (one special ed one montessori) that drops down to space for 34.

2. Anyone can ask to transfer. If you are at Glebe or McKinley and you would rather be at Discovery or Nottingham- I really think you would be allowed to do so. It might not be "allowed" by the current policy, but they can and do make exceptions. This policy is one of the things they fixed in the recent revisions to the enrollment and transfer policy- it was specifically to allow for a more flexible response.

3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


It's takes money and space to build more schools. Space is hard to find, and there's a large enough population that doesn't have school-aged kids and who are increasingly pushing back on school bonds. The board had to keep the bonds more modest or they risk them not getting passed at all, but it means there's simply less funding for school infrastructure than the county needs to keep up with the growing school-aged population.

Yeah, those old timers who got to send their kids through APS without worrying about overcrowding, who refuse to return their underutilized community centers back to schools, and who, at the same time, want their real estate taxes to be indefinitely deferred. You know, so that their heirs don't even have to pay the county back when their home is sold to a developed for ten times what they paid for it in 1960 whatever.


which underutilized community centers specifically do you think should be converted to school use?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
1- the idea that McKinley is packed to the gills and the other schools around have space. Utilizing the most recent projections- (Spring Update- https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SpringUpdate_and_Revised_FallProjections17-26_Final.pdf) McKinley has a seat deficit of 74 and Glebe has a seat deficit of 64. When you add in Glebe's special ed preschoolers- Glebe has a seat deficit of 78. (You don't add in McKinley's montessori classroom b/c it is actually housed at the Reed School.) Tuckahoe has a seat deficit of 4- when you add in Tuckahoe's special ed preschoolers that goes to 16. Nottingham has seats for 12 students. Discovery has seats for 60- but when you add in the two preschool classes (one special ed one montessori) that drops down to space for 34.

2. Anyone can ask to transfer. If you are at Glebe or McKinley and you would rather be at Discovery or Nottingham- I really think you would be allowed to do so. It might not be "allowed" by the current policy, but they can and do make exceptions. This policy is one of the things they fixed in the recent revisions to the enrollment and transfer policy- it was specifically to allow for a more flexible response.

3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

Actually, McKinley's most recent enrollment is 795, which is a deficit of 111 seats.

Most parents, especially those new to APS, do not know about the transfer options b/ APS does not do anything to advertise it. Actually, the team approach seems to be a good response to the inequities. My school could help out the overcrowding at other schools and I am not obtuse enough to think that we can't fit a trailer or two more on our lot. I understand that percentages don't tell the real story and you need to look at the lot and what is left. What they did to McKinley should get people fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
1- the idea that McKinley is packed to the gills and the other schools around have space. Utilizing the most recent projections- (Spring Update- https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SpringUpdate_and_Revised_FallProjections17-26_Final.pdf) McKinley has a seat deficit of 74 and Glebe has a seat deficit of 64. When you add in Glebe's special ed preschoolers- Glebe has a seat deficit of 78. (You don't add in McKinley's montessori classroom b/c it is actually housed at the Reed School.) Tuckahoe has a seat deficit of 4- when you add in Tuckahoe's special ed preschoolers that goes to 16. Nottingham has seats for 12 students. Discovery has seats for 60- but when you add in the two preschool classes (one special ed one montessori) that drops down to space for 34.

2. Anyone can ask to transfer. If you are at Glebe or McKinley and you would rather be at Discovery or Nottingham- I really think you would be allowed to do so. It might not be "allowed" by the current policy, but they can and do make exceptions. This policy is one of the things they fixed in the recent revisions to the enrollment and transfer policy- it was specifically to allow for a more flexible response.

3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

The transfer policy was raised by McKinley last year when everyone saw this problem coming. APS said that it was not an option. McKinley was always going to be over-capacity thanks to the 2014 boundary refinement vote. But APS refused to make adjustments for the high-density townhomes and APAH development going on in Westover last year, so now it is even worse. And as for the Reed Montessori kids, they do still utilize certain McKinley resources like Extended Day and may be coming back over to McKinley next year when they close Reed to start renovations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
1- the idea that McKinley is packed to the gills and the other schools around have space. Utilizing the most recent projections- (Spring Update- https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SpringUpdate_and_Revised_FallProjections17-26_Final.pdf) McKinley has a seat deficit of 74 and Glebe has a seat deficit of 64. When you add in Glebe's special ed preschoolers- Glebe has a seat deficit of 78. (You don't add in McKinley's montessori classroom b/c it is actually housed at the Reed School.) Tuckahoe has a seat deficit of 4- when you add in Tuckahoe's special ed preschoolers that goes to 16. Nottingham has seats for 12 students. Discovery has seats for 60- but when you add in the two preschool classes (one special ed one montessori) that drops down to space for 34.

2. Anyone can ask to transfer. If you are at Glebe or McKinley and you would rather be at Discovery or Nottingham- I really think you would be allowed to do so. It might not be "allowed" by the current policy, but they can and do make exceptions. This policy is one of the things they fixed in the recent revisions to the enrollment and transfer policy- it was specifically to allow for a more flexible response.

3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

The transfer policy was raised by McKinley last year when everyone saw this problem coming. APS said that it was not an option. McKinley was always going to be over-capacity thanks to the 2014 boundary refinement vote. But APS refused to make adjustments for the high-density townhomes and APAH development going on in Westover last year, so now it is even worse. And as for the Reed Montessori kids, they do still utilize certain McKinley resources like Extended Day and may be coming back over to McKinley next year when they close Reed to start renovations.

Those townhomes are already finished and people are moved in? Wow, that was fast. Are there really new kids from the APAH property? I thought they weren't going to move new tenants in? Didn't they just purchase an already existing building, but the tenants didn't have to move out? I don't think they made them any bigger. Aren't most 1 bedrooms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
1- the idea that McKinley is packed to the gills and the other schools around have space. Utilizing the most recent projections- (Spring Update- https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SpringUpdate_and_Revised_FallProjections17-26_Final.pdf) McKinley has a seat deficit of 74 and Glebe has a seat deficit of 64. When you add in Glebe's special ed preschoolers- Glebe has a seat deficit of 78. (You don't add in McKinley's montessori classroom b/c it is actually housed at the Reed School.) Tuckahoe has a seat deficit of 4- when you add in Tuckahoe's special ed preschoolers that goes to 16. Nottingham has seats for 12 students. Discovery has seats for 60- but when you add in the two preschool classes (one special ed one montessori) that drops down to space for 34.

2. Anyone can ask to transfer. If you are at Glebe or McKinley and you would rather be at Discovery or Nottingham- I really think you would be allowed to do so. It might not be "allowed" by the current policy, but they can and do make exceptions. This policy is one of the things they fixed in the recent revisions to the enrollment and transfer policy- it was specifically to allow for a more flexible response.

3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

The transfer policy was raised by McKinley last year when everyone saw this problem coming. APS said that it was not an option. McKinley was always going to be over-capacity thanks to the 2014 boundary refinement vote. But APS refused to make adjustments for the high-density townhomes and APAH development going on in Westover last year, so now it is even worse. And as for the Reed Montessori kids, they do still utilize certain McKinley resources like Extended Day and may be coming back over to McKinley next year when they close Reed to start renovations.

Those townhomes are already finished and people are moved in? Wow, that was fast. Are there really new kids from the APAH property? I thought they weren't going to move new tenants in? Didn't they just purchase an already existing building, but the tenants didn't have to move out? I don't think they made them any bigger. Aren't most 1 bedrooms?

The Westover civic association took a survey of the townhomes this winter and there were already over 20 kids grade 5 or younger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree you cannot cap enrollment; this is a public school. If people live here and by law are required to send children of specific ages to school, APS has to take them and needs to engage with the realities of how many school-aged children live in this county.

Now, capping development would make sense to me, given the overcapacity challenges and the fact that there is limited land on which to build new schools.

[Anonymous]

The irony here is that an awful lot of the people complaining about the elementary school overcrowding moved to Arlington for the schools when those schools were already at capacity, and therefore are the root cause of the very situation they are decrying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree you cannot cap enrollment; this is a public school. If people live here and by law are required to send children of specific ages to school, APS has to take them and needs to engage with the realities of how many school-aged children live in this county.

Now, capping development would make sense to me, given the overcapacity challenges and the fact that there is limited land on which to build new schools.

Yes and creating overlapping zones so that parents can choose between two schools would fix that. If parents were in between a school with 800 and a school with 500, you can bet that plenty would choose the 500 one and balance things out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


It's takes money and space to build more schools. Space is hard to find, and there's a large enough population that doesn't have school-aged kids and who are increasingly pushing back on school bonds. The board had to keep the bonds more modest or they risk them not getting passed at all, but it means there's simply less funding for school infrastructure than the county needs to keep up with the growing school-aged population.

Yeah, those old timers who got to send their kids through APS without worrying about overcrowding, who refuse to return their underutilized community centers back to schools, and who, at the same time, want their real estate taxes to be indefinitely deferred. You know, so that their heirs don't even have to pay the county back when their home is sold to a developed for ten times what they paid for it in 1960 whatever.

which underutilized community centers specifically do you think should be converted to school use?

Have you ever set foot in Madison? I took a class there and that place is a ghost town!!!! Very nice sized lot too:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Madison+Community+Center/@38.923666,-77.1245111,329m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7b5ece5c6a571:0xfe5f5803dd202ea3!8m2!3d38.9232564!4d-77.1236085

Have you ever set foot in Jennie Dean park? I played tennis there once and it's a dump. I saw a few people walking dogs but really it was like the world's lonelines park on a Saturday afternoon. Another very large sized lot.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jennie+Dean+Park/@38.8432346,-77.0903567,441m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7b14ef8e640b7:0xde14584f847b663d!8m2!3d38.8432304!4d-77.088168

The county board is just pathetic at addressing the overcrowding of the schools. The APS is also limited in its ability in my opinion. Between the both of these groups, I'm thoroughly sick of paying my taxes and having my kid in an elementary grade classroom of 27 kids at a school with no fields because all the outdoor space is filled with trailers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cap enrollment and offer transfers to nearby schools. McKinley, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, Glebe & Discovery are so close to one another, it's beyond idiotic that APS won't actively try to fix enrollment discrepancies with a flexible response.

There are several false narratives in this response.
3. cap enrollment? Who would you not allow to enroll? How would you decide who isn't allowed to attend their neighborhood school? This is not an 'easy' fix by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree you cannot cap enrollment; this is a public school. If people live here and by law are required to send children of specific ages to school, APS has to take them and needs to engage with the realities of how many school-aged children live in this county.

Now, capping development would make sense to me, given the overcapacity challenges and the fact that there is limited land on which to build new schools.

Yes and creating overlapping zones so that parents can choose between two schools would fix that. If parents were in between a school with 800 and a school with 500, you can bet that plenty would choose the 500 one and balance things out.

OMG NO, just NO. You can't make kids at Discovery suffer just because McK has 700 or so kids. It's not fair to people who pay far more in property taxes near Discovery than McKinley parents pay.