Another choice school in N Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sense of entitlement among S Arlington folks who want gentrification is unbelievable.

That's rich. People who owned property in the neighborhoods prior to adoption of the Pike Neighborhoods Plan are "entitled" for being mad that they were given a bait and switch? They agreed to far more than their share of committed affordable housing based on the premise that the streetcar was going to bring gentrification that was sure to push out their neighbors. And now, not only is the gentrification not going to happen for some of the neighborhoods, but hundreds of units of committed affordable housing (mostly for families) are coming on line anyway with no new transit plan for the increased population density, no plan for the overcrowding of the schools (because one new school in south Arlington isn't going to address it), and a couple neighborhoods targeted for a lot of the affordable housing planed in Arlington. Every time a unit gets torn down in Westover, it gives the AH developers another justification for more infill development in Arlington Mill, which is now 40% committed affordable housing and can't even attract a new Subway restaurant to open up because, SURPRISE, businesses do their market research and realize that the neighborhood can't support any new businesses. I don't live in the neighborhood, but I absolutely understand how people of modest economic means, whose only real investment might have been a condo that is now worth $40,000 less than when they bought it 10 years ago, are justified in being upset. Is that selfish? Maybe, but certainly no more selfish than everyone in this thread who's made six figures or more in equity in the same period of time, but who feels like they are the ones getting the shaft because they can't walk their kids to a small, neighborhood school and instead have to put them on a bus for a 10 minute ride to one of the "best" elementary schools in the state. Okay.

It's called perspective, and some people need to get some.

Amazing post. Yes. Yes. Yes!!!
Also, if you haven't taken a moment to read the Columbia Pike neighborhood plan, please do so. It's 150 pages of shattered dreams, bullshit, and delusion. Wonder if people who own condos in the Brittany and Carlton have been paying attention to what is headed their way.
I seriously hate this fucking county.

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2014/03/Columbia-Pike.pdf

[Anonymous]

Wait, are you tying to argue gentrification is a "bad" thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could it possibly be that a more traditional school is actually better for kids in early elementary?

I think it depends on how you're defining better. For people who like the tidy evaluation SOL scores provide, a highly structured, drill-and-kill approach delivers. But if you're looking for something longer term and harder to define (resilience, critical thinking, emotional development), it doesn't seem as though the ATS model is going to get you there.

That said, "more traditional" is pretty hazy, too. I went to elementary school in the 70s, and we had some old-school memorization of times tables and spelling words. But we also had loads of recess, free time in the classroom, and virtually no time spent on standardized testing.

It worked great for neurotypical kids from stable backgrounds. We were a homogeneous bunch.

Just curious-- what evidence do you have that kids who go or went to ATS lack resilience, critical thinking and emotional development?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could it possibly be that a more traditional school is actually better for kids in early elementary?

I think it depends on how you're defining better. For people who like the tidy evaluation SOL scores provide, a highly structured, drill-and-kill approach delivers. But if you're looking for something longer term and harder to define (resilience, critical thinking, emotional development), it doesn't seem as though the ATS model is going to get you there.

That said, "more traditional" is pretty hazy, too. I went to elementary school in the 70s, and we had some old-school memorization of times tables and spelling words. But we also had loads of recess, free time in the classroom, and virtually no time spent on standardized testing.

It worked great for neurotypical kids from stable backgrounds. We were a homogeneous bunch.

Just curious-- what evidence do you have that kids who go or went to ATS lack resilience, critical thinking and emotional development?

Oh jeez...
Those kids can have all of those things, and that program could not tailored specifically for them. They can develop those traits in ATS, even if those aren't stated goals. That's the great thing about strong curriculum and great staff.

[Anonymous]

All of you who want gentrification along the pike had better speak up loudly because those who want to keep it poor, aka "affordable" have power right now. Interesting how tables have turned against capitalism in this county!!!!

If you are a sFh owner and want gentrification, leadership in this county does not want to hear your voice or gentrify. If you don't speak up, pack meetings, get your neighborhood civic association up in arms, you will neve be heard. They have advocates everywhere.

[Anonymous]

When did the shift from capitalism to socialism happen? It's not just Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sense of entitlement among S Arlington folks who want gentrification is unbelievable.

That's rich. People who owned property in the neighborhoods prior to adoption of the Pike Neighborhoods Plan are "entitled" for being mad that they were given a bait and switch? They agreed to far more than their share of committed affordable housing based on the premise that the streetcar was going to bring gentrification that was sure to push out their neighbors. And now, not only is the gentrification not going to happen for some of the neighborhoods, but hundreds of units of committed affordable housing (mostly for families) are coming on line anyway with no new transit plan for the increased population density, no plan for the overcrowding of the schools (because one new school in south Arlington isn't going to address it), and a couple neighborhoods targeted for a lot of the affordable housing planed in Arlington. Every time a unit gets torn down in Westover, it gives the AH developers another justification for more infill development in Arlington Mill, which is now 40% committed affordable housing and can't even attract a new Subway restaurant to open up because, SURPRISE, businesses do their market research and realize that the neighborhood can't support any new businesses. I don't live in the neighborhood, but I absolutely understand how people of modest economic means, whose only real investment might have been a condo that is now worth $40,000 less than when they bought it 10 years ago, are justified in being upset. Is that selfish? Maybe, but certainly no more selfish than everyone in this thread who's made six figures or more in equity in the same period of time, but who feels like they are the ones getting the shaft because they can't walk their kids to a small, neighborhood school and instead have to put them on a bus for a 10 minute ride to one of the "best" elementary schools in the state. Okay.

It's called perspective, and some people need to get some.

Amazing post. Yes. Yes. Yes!!!
Also, if you haven't taken a moment to read the Columbia Pike neighborhood plan, please do so. It's 150 pages of shattered dreams, bullshit, and delusion. Wonder if people who own condos in the Brittany and Carlton have been paying attention to what is headed their way.
I seriously hate this fucking county.

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2014/03/Columbia-Pike.pdf

Wow, that does look like pie in the sky stuff. You can't polish a piece of ....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could it possibly be that a more traditional school is actually better for kids in early elementary?

I think it depends on how you're defining better. For people who like the tidy evaluation SOL scores provide, a highly structured, drill-and-kill approach delivers. But if you're looking for something longer term and harder to define (resilience, critical thinking, emotional development), it doesn't seem as though the ATS model is going to get you there.

That said, "more traditional" is pretty hazy, too. I went to elementary school in the 70s, and we had some old-school memorization of times tables and spelling words. But we also had loads of recess, free time in the classroom, and virtually no time spent on standardized testing.

It worked great for neurotypical kids from stable backgrounds. We were a homogeneous bunch.

Just curious-- what evidence do you have that kids who go or went to ATS lack resilience, critical thinking and emotional development?

I tend to hear that supposition from people whose kids don't go to ATS, so I find it...curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When did the shift from capitalism to socialism happen? It's not just Arlington.

We're not talking about socialism.
Educating our children is part of the social contract. Making sure they grow up in stable homes with food on the table is better for everyone.
But the streetcar got cancelled and all of the promised gentrification went down the tubes with it.
People are starting to look at this Pike neighborhood plan, and ask some important questions. Those neighborhood schools aren't doing so great. What happens if you add more poverty to them? They were supposedly going to be propped up by more middle class density. That hasn't materialized.
How are people living in these areas supposed to be well served if businesses won't invest in the area, because it's super poor?

North Arlington parents aren't divorced from this problem. They helped these policies along. It's time for them to pitch in. Time for them to be part of the solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did the shift from capitalism to socialism happen? It's not just Arlington.

We're not talking about socialism.
Educating our children is part of the social contract. Making sure they grow up in stable homes with food on the table is better for everyone.
But the streetcar got cancelled and all of the promised gentrification went down the tubes with it.
People are starting to look at this Pike neighborhood plan, and ask some important questions. Those neighborhood schools aren't doing so great. What happens if you add more poverty to them? They were supposedly going to be propped up by more middle class density. That hasn't materialized.
How are people living in these areas supposed to be well served if businesses won't invest in the area, because it's super poor?

North Arlington parents aren't divorced from this problem. They helped these policies along. It's time for them to pitch in. Time for them to be part of the solution.

Now now, CARD. Let's dial down the rhetoric.

The CAFs you bemoan are REPLACING market-rate affordable units. The subsidies go to replace bottom-dollar market units with public investment in mixed-income quality units. That is a GOOD thing.

NORTH Arlington has the majority of CAFs in Arlington. No, not South Arlington, Reid, but rather NORTH Arlington.

IF you want the "burden" spread, then support the promotion of zoning changes to fill in the "missing middle" with 3-5 story density tapering from the Metro corridor, Lee Highway, North Glebe Road, Lorcom Lane, Williamsburg Blvd, and other transportation corridors. Support broader promotion of in-law suites and the like.

Beyond that, call out as sheer NONSENSE "proposals" to run high school classes from 6:00 AM to 11:00 PM. Hold accountable the people whose shortsightedness leads to the embrace of relocatables that try to provide classrooms without infrastructure. BTW--those same people also bought if not promoted the anti-streetcar demagoguery.

Stop blaming "the poors" for problems that others have cynically propagated. You don't get to leverage state tax credits, restricted-use transportation funding, and Federal education incentive funding when you simply cut property taxes and starve yourself of the minimum tax revenue to unlock those streams.

People who are partners in law firms that engage in housing finance know that very, very well.

Whether they tell you that when they run for office is another matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:well then even one more choice school. He school board is already committed to building 2 more elementary schools.

No they haven't. The CIP up for SB approval on June 16 contains money to turn Reed into an ES and put additions on two existing ES. (The new ES that they are building in S. Arlington now is coming from the last round of CIP funds.) If you want to build another choice school, I am fine with it. I think we could use another immersion school in the County. But why put it at Reed, which is about as far west in the county as you can get? That isn't even close to where the worst overcrowding in Arlington is predicted. Go look at the APS utilization spreadsheet for 2020/21-- for Reed to work as a 725 student choice school that year, you have to assume that the majority of students are coming from the ASF/Key, Long Branch, and overcrowded South Arlington districts-- that they will be willing to backtrack all the way to Westover every day for school. Otherwise you have not made a dent in the overcrowding. That is a huge assumption, with no data behind it. Our best proxy is the ATS experience-- and I think the low South Arlington enrollment at ATS shows that people just aren't willing to travel that far for a choice school in west Arlington. Remember, Ashlawn and Glebe transfers alone make up 25% of the ATS student body-- which makes sense b/c most of these kids are in the ATS neighborhood. Build another choice school- but do it in a more sensible location that solves the problem of overcrowding- which is why we are building a new ES in the first place. APS is just picking Reed because it is the cheapest option and they already own the building, not because it is in any way an ideal geographic location to solve overcrowding or best serve our kids in either N or S Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did the shift from capitalism to socialism happen? It's not just Arlington.

We're not talking about socialism.
Educating our children is part of the social contract. Making sure they grow up in stable homes with food on the table is better for everyone.
But the streetcar got cancelled and all of the promised gentrification went down the tubes with it.
People are starting to look at this Pike neighborhood plan, and ask some important questions. Those neighborhood schools aren't doing so great. What happens if you add more poverty to them? They were supposedly going to be propped up by more middle class density. That hasn't materialized.
How are people living in these areas supposed to be well served if businesses won't invest in the area, because it's super poor?

North Arlington parents aren't divorced from this problem. They helped these policies along. It's time for them to pitch in. Time for them to be part of the solution.

Now now, CARD. Let's dial down the rhetoric.

The CAFs you bemoan are REPLACING market-rate affordable units. The subsidies go to replace bottom-dollar market units with public investment in mixed-income quality units. That is a GOOD thing.

NORTH Arlington has the majority of CAFs in Arlington. No, not South Arlington, Reid, but rather NORTH Arlington.

IF you want the "burden" spread, then support the promotion of zoning changes to fill in the "missing middle" with 3-5 story density tapering from the Metro corridor, Lee Highway, North Glebe Road, Lorcom Lane, Williamsburg Blvd, and other transportation corridors. Support broader promotion of in-law suites and the like.

Beyond that, call out as sheer NONSENSE "proposals" to run high school classes from 6:00 AM to 11:00 PM. Hold accountable the people whose shortsightedness leads to the embrace of relocatables that try to provide classrooms without infrastructure. BTW--those same people also bought if not promoted the anti-streetcar demagoguery.

Stop blaming "the poors" for problems that others have cynically propagated. You don't get to leverage state tax credits, restricted-use transportation funding, and Federal education incentive funding when you simply cut property taxes and starve yourself of the minimum tax revenue to unlock those streams.

People who are partners in law firms that engage in housing finance know that very, very well.

Whether they tell you that when they run for office is another matter.

The CAF's being built along Columbia Pike aren't replacing Mark's. At least not right now. They might be replacing future lost housing, but as of now- they're all still around. Yes, it is supposed to be mixed income. That's what they sold us. It's not what we've been getting.
Yes, north Arlington has a larger number of Affordable units. The problem with south Arlington is how they are, and continue to be concentrated.
The anti streetcar crowd... The opposition to that made some strange bed fellows.
As a south Arlington home owner I do not support in law suites. I understand why people want them, but I also know how that will play out in my hood. I would like my neighborhood to remain single family. I would like to raise my kids, having the same kind of neighborhood experience as my older neighbors did. The difference being my family and others of my generation are sacrificing a much larger percentage of our earnings to do it.
I've never blamed the "poors". I blame those making policy, patting themselves on the back, and hiding behind " the Arlington way".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:well then even one more choice school. He school board is already committed to building 2 more elementary schools.

No they haven't. The CIP up for SB approval on June 16 contains money to turn Reed into an ES and put additions on two existing ES. (The new ES that they are building in S. Arlington now is coming from the last round of CIP funds.) If you want to build another choice school, I am fine with it. I think we could use another immersion school in the County. But why put it at Reed, which is about as far west in the county as you can get? That isn't even close to where the worst overcrowding in Arlington is predicted. Go look at the APS utilization spreadsheet for 2020/21-- for Reed to work as a 725 student choice school that year, you have to assume that the majority of students are coming from the ASF/Key, Long Branch, and overcrowded South Arlington districts-- that they will be willing to backtrack all the way to Westover every day for school. Otherwise you have not made a dent in the overcrowding. That is a huge assumption, with no data behind it. Our best proxy is the ATS experience-- and I think the low South Arlington enrollment at ATS shows that people just aren't willing to travel that far for a choice school in west Arlington. Remember, Ashlawn and Glebe transfers alone make up 25% of the ATS student body-- which makes sense b/c most of these kids are in the ATS neighborhood. Build another choice school- but do it in a more sensible location that solves the problem of overcrowding- which is why we are building a new ES in the first place. APS is just picking Reed because it is the cheapest option and they already own the building, not because it is in any way an ideal geographic location to solve overcrowding or best serve our kids in either N or S Arlington.

Everyone I know in south Arlington tries for ATS. They don't care how far it is. They just don't get the slots. Luck of the draw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When did the shift from capitalism to socialism happen? It's not just Arlington.

We're not talking about socialism.
Educating our children is part of the social contract. Making sure they grow up in stable homes with food on the table is better for everyone.
But the streetcar got cancelled and all of the promised gentrification went down the tubes with it.
People are starting to look at this Pike neighborhood plan, and ask some important questions. Those neighborhood schools aren't doing so great. What happens if you add more poverty to them? They were supposedly going to be propped up by more middle class density. That hasn't materialized.
How are people living in these areas supposed to be well served if businesses won't invest in the area, because it's super poor?

North Arlington parents aren't divorced from this problem. They helped these policies along. It's time for them to pitch in. Time for them to be part of the solution.

I think it's socialism to expect high-performing kids to be reassigned to shitty schools to prop the other kids up. And that's what's happening everywhere. The problem is that the smart kid has value (high test scores, involved parents), and you're crapping all over them. Public colleges offer incentives to attract motivated students: they get financial assistance or the promise of an outstanding education. With all these choice plans popping up, they get the pleasure of being assigned to a shitty, low-performing school. What's in it for them? Nothing. So they choose private or charters, and everybody loses. Republicans and democrats are both backing this model. Democrats like it for the perceived equity and republicans like it because it encourages the privatization of schools.

Sounds like Arlington is laying the groundwork for a full I controlled choice model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Call me someone "trying to be a liberal" but we also like the ethnic and socioeconomic diversity. We are minority and so are our kids. We toured the neighborhood school and quickly realized that our kids would be almost the only people who look like them in their classrooms. We also heard nightmarish stories from our neighbors about competition starting early for certain types of clothes, vacations, etc at the neighborhood school. We liked the atmosphere at ATS better.

So you claim to "like" ethnic and socioeconomic diversity, and yet you apparently moved into one of the most wealthy and most white neighbors in North Arlington. And then you were shocked to find out that there weren't many minorities at your local elementary school? Sorry, that doesn't entitle anyone from North Arlington to have access to an alternative choice program (and I am saying that as a North Arlington parent).

Actually, we moved into our neighborhood a LONG time ago as newlyweds, well before the prices skyrocketed, well before there was a big differential between N. and S. Arlington, and well before we even thought about having children. It would be pretty expensfive now to move and silly just to prove worthiness of ethnic diversity to someone like you. The school is county wide. That means open to everyone in the county. We can disagree about that, and obviously do,

There has always been a difference between north and south Arlington.