Confederate Battle Flag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:U.S. Governments are already prohibited from endorsing religion.

"In God We Trust" was historically and traditionally never on US currency. It was added in 1956, in the midst of McCarthyism and other deranged right wing extremism - essentially the Tea Party of their day. It should be removed.

[Anonymous]

I am sure that most people defending the flag are decent people. But in my experience, most people flying the flag are racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag has been located at a Confederate war memorial since 2000. Furthermore, it's not on a pulley. It's within view of the state house, not on the state house itself. It's on the northern end of the grounds.

The Confederate flag has a place at the Confederate war memorial - it's a piece of history.

If you want, you can totally re-write the public school history texts and completely eliminate it and the war. Me? I think it's more important for children to understand history.

This may be true, but I would then argue that the Confederate war memorial does not belong on the living, active State House Grounds in 2015.

Signed,

A native of Columbia, SC

I think that's ridiculous.

Would a Nazi War Memorial belong on the grounds of the Bundestag?

Show me the 6 million blacks killed.

So that's your criteria? A set number of people have to be killed by an institution, to make it evil? Columbia, SC native here again. The only way that state is ever going to move forward is for folks like you to recognize that the WAR IS OVER and was, 150 years ago. It has zero to do with ANYTHING going on in the state at this time. The State House is a vibrant (by Columbia standards, anyway) area in the heart of downtown, with living, breathing people going there every day to influence and debate issues that are truly relevant to 2015. To have this stupid memorial front and center there is absurd.

A lot of folks died fighting for the confederacy. It's part of our history. Erasing symbols of it allows it to disappear from people's minds. You want history repeated? Go ahead and bury it.

First of all, the folks who died fighting for the confederacy were total idiots. If we knew them today, they would be the reddest of the necks. There were a very few extremely wealthy slaveholders and thousands who did their bidding by giving their lives for this stupid "cause," which was nothing more than keeping the money in extremely upper class hands. (And I say this as the descendent of several who took up arms for the south.) Yes, it is all part of our history and I agree that it should not be buried. It should be studied, talked about in schools, etc as it currently is. It should not, however, be celebrated by being memorialized on the state house grounds.

You know it was illegal NOT to fight for the Confederacy, right? Many southerners who lost their lives were forced into battle. Did you not learn history in school? This is Civil War 101.

Of course I know that. There was a draft and all men from teens (pre-teen?) through practically the elderly, by the time it was over, were required to fight. But so what? This was still 150 YEARS AGO. Are you still honoring the individual dead of the First World War? The Spanish American war? The Revolutionary War, for that matter, where Americans truly gave their lives for a noble purpose that lives on for us today? Why does this one aspect of history have such a grip on you? Has there been no achievement in your life, or in the lives of other family members, since then, that makes you cling to these distant ancestors?

Yes, I do honor those men (and women). Why? Because everything I have been able to accomplish is DUE TO THEM. This country would not have been founded, were it not for those that fought in the Revolutionary war.

It's called respect. And a deep appreciation for those that died so that I could live in, and raise my children, in a free country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how any black person could feel welcome living in the state, doing business with the state, or getting justice in the state w the flag looming over the Capitol, never to be lowered in respect.
..

What an idiotic statement given millions of blacks live there, and quite alright.

You are oblivious and clueless, PP. And I'm saying that as a white guy.

White guy, as I said before to many likes of you--if you want to change the world, start with yourself and get a freaking clue. The flag is on over the Capitol. It is on grounds as a tribute to the state's history.

[Anonymous]

^^not over the Capitol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

Thank you. I love this country and its people, but when it comes to history, most Americans are absolutely delusional. They believe they live in a democracy for Pete's sake! I learned not to expect much in terms on knowledge of world history or current events

[Anonymous]

As pp pointed out, now that we are amending our currency to include the contributions of women to this country we should also delete the IGWT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how any black person could feel welcome living in the state, doing business with the state, or getting justice in the state w the flag looming over the Capitol, never to be lowered in respect.
..

What an idiotic statement given millions of blacks live there, and quite alright.

You are oblivious and clueless, PP. And I'm saying that as a white guy.

White guy, as I said before to many likes of you--if you want to change the world, start with yourself and get a freaking clue. The flag is on over the Capitol. It is on grounds as a tribute to the state's history.

It is inappropriate on multiple levels as it is the battle flag, it's not even the CSA national flag. Does Japan fly its WWII battle flag over its government buildings? No. Does any other enlightened, modern government do that? No.

But even that doesn't scratch the surface. It is the flag of what was a hostile, foreign nation to the US. It is the flag of treason. It is a flag that calls for the destruction of the US. It is the flag of an aggressor that fired the first shots and drew the first blood of the Civil War - it was *NOT* the "War of Northern Aggression" as southern Revisionists living in fantasy land like to call it - because the battle of Fort Sumter proves otherwise, that the South, and specifically South Carolina was the aggressor, not the North. It is the flag of a dead state that only existed for a brief but bloody, violent and vicious 4 years that left hundreds of thousands dead. It is the flag of a nation that went to war to not just defend slavery, but to try and expand slavery into the western territories. It is a flag that was NOT FLOWN anywhere on South Carolina state grounds for nearly 100 years after the Civil War. The only reason it came back was because of racist neo-confederates who wanted to defend segregation, white supremacy and Jim Crow laws hoisted the flag at the South Carolina state house again for the first time in the 1960s. Prior to that, it didn't have a "history" with South Carolina for nearly 100 years. Since then, it's "history" has been tainted with nothing but racism. Today it is the flag of the KKK, and of white supremacists, it is a symbol of racist mass murderers.

THAT is its history, my friend. REAL history, not just some vague mumbo jumbo fantasy about "truhdishern" that rednecks like you love to mumble. That is history that you do not get to pick and choose. That is history that you do not get to omit. That is the history that you apparently need to be reminded of, every day that the flag continues to fly. If you think otherwise, you are the one who needs to get a clue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poster who was defending the confederate flag seemed emotionally disturbed. Basically people like that are paranoid schizophrenia. That PP has probably spent YEARS "studying" his "subject" and coming up with facile responses to arguments he's heard hundreds of times. When guys like that PP get too far lost in their delusions, really bad things can happen. Fortunately most are just harmless cranks but not always. The bottom line is that flag is a deliberate racist symbol. That's what it means and it's all that it means, period. It doesn't stand for a brave and noble lost cause. It's always stood for pure stupidity. It's always stood for a horrible war for a worthless "cause"-- slavery--because southern leaders didn't care about slaves and they didn't care about their own sons, they led them to horrible slaughter against the North.

People like PP defending that flag and all those in favor of it are just doubling and tripling down in delusional stupidity. These guys aren't simply racists--they're mentally disturbed people who latch onto a racist world view to provide focus to their pre-existing mental illness. It didn't even have to be racism either. If PP had happened to latch onto something else to obsessively focus on it could have been anything like John Lennon or Jodi Foster.

I'm a white Jewish girl who is also an antiques dealer. I believe history should be preserved; that we can learn so much from the past, that to destroy it or re-write it dooms us to repeat our mistakes. I feel re-writing and/or burying history, no matter how dark it might be, is a hallmark of insanity.

If you want a definition of insanity, political correctness is it.

a) your race, religion and occupation aren't germane, even if you're being truthful, which I doubt.

b) you sound like a sock puppet of the other PP. Something about your writing style.

c) since you claim your religion has some relevance, are you claiming you think it woukd be cool to fly a Nazi flag over your state capitol? How about hanging a swastika in the window of your antiques shop next to the menorah?

Try it and get.back to us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

Thank you. I love this country and its people, but when it comes to history, most Americans are absolutely delusional. They believe they live in a democracy for Pete's sake! I learned not to expect much in terms on knowledge of world history or current events

If you think it had nothing to do with slavery then you are the one who is delusional. Here for example are some key slavery-related facts and events about the escalation leading to the Civil War - and note that South Carolina features prominently at the center of it:

For example, the debates over westward expansion of slavery - with Senator John Calhoun of South Carolina arguing hard for expanding slavery westward, leading to the Compromise of 1850

Then, the Kansas-Nebraska act of 1854, which led to clashes and guerrilla warfare between abolitionists and pro-slavery forces in Kansas and adjoining areas.

In 1856, in a debate over slavery, Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner condemned slavery and was physically attacked and brutally beaten with a cane by South Carolina Senator Preston Brooks.

In 1858, a full on brawl erupted in Congress over the westward expansion of slavery, involving more than 50 representatives.

December 20, 1860, South Carolina was the first state to secede.

April 12, 1861, South Carolina becomes the first aggressor and starts the Civil War by attacking Fort Sumter.

Maybe you forgot about those little tidbits of history. I suggest you brush up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poster who was defending the confederate flag seemed emotionally disturbed. Basically people like that are paranoid schizophrenia. That PP has probably spent YEARS "studying" his "subject" and coming up with facile responses to arguments he's heard hundreds of times. When guys like that PP get too far lost in their delusions, really bad things can happen. Fortunately most are just harmless cranks but not always. The bottom line is that flag is a deliberate racist symbol. That's what it means and it's all that it means, period. It doesn't stand for a brave and noble lost cause. It's always stood for pure stupidity. It's always stood for a horrible war for a worthless "cause"-- slavery--because southern leaders didn't care about slaves and they didn't care about their own sons, they led them to horrible slaughter against the North.

People like PP defending that flag and all those in favor of it are just doubling and tripling down in delusional stupidity. These guys aren't simply racists--they're mentally disturbed people who latch onto a racist world view to provide focus to their pre-existing mental illness. It didn't even have to be racism either. If PP had happened to latch onto something else to obsessively focus on it could have been anything like John Lennon or Jodi Foster.

I'm a white Jewish girl who is also an antiques dealer. I believe history should be preserved; that we can learn so much from the past, that to destroy it or re-write it dooms us to repeat our mistakes. I feel re-writing and/or burying history, no matter how dark it might be, is a hallmark of insanity.

If you want a definition of insanity, political correctness is it.

Nope, it's apparent any all your posts that it's all about money. You make money off of this and it matters not if it is offensive. It's all about the Benjamin's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perfect example of taking a tragedy and spinning it for political purposes.

Beautiful example of transferring the blame from the sicko who did this to a flag and a whole State. Also giving more power and recognition to the person who did this heinous act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perfect example of taking a tragedy and spinning it for political purposes.

Beautiful example of transferring the blame from the sicko who did this to a flag and a whole State. Also giving more power and recognition to the person who did this heinous act.

He didn't learn to hate in a vacuum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poster who was defending the confederate flag seemed emotionally disturbed. Basically people like that are paranoid schizophrenia. That PP has probably spent YEARS "studying" his "subject" and coming up with facile responses to arguments he's heard hundreds of times. When guys like that PP get too far lost in their delusions, really bad things can happen. Fortunately most are just harmless cranks but not always. The bottom line is that flag is a deliberate racist symbol. That's what it means and it's all that it means, period. It doesn't stand for a brave and noble lost cause. It's always stood for pure stupidity. It's always stood for a horrible war for a worthless "cause"-- slavery--because southern leaders didn't care about slaves and they didn't care about their own sons, they led them to horrible slaughter against the North.

People like PP defending that flag and all those in favor of it are just doubling and tripling down in delusional stupidity. These guys aren't simply racists--they're mentally disturbed people who latch onto a racist world view to provide focus to their pre-existing mental illness. It didn't even have to be racism either. If PP had happened to latch onto something else to obsessively focus on it could have been anything like John Lennon or Jodi Foster.

I'm a white Jewish girl who is also an antiques dealer. I believe history should be preserved; that we can learn so much from the past, that to destroy it or re-write it dooms us to repeat our mistakes. I feel re-writing and/or burying history, no matter how dark it might be, is a hallmark of insanity.

If you want a definition of insanity, political correctness is it.

a) your race, religion and occupation aren't germane, even if you're being truthful, which I doubt.

b) you sound like a sock puppet of the other PP. Something about your writing style.

c) since you claim your religion has some relevance, are you claiming you think it woukd be cool to fly a Nazi flag over your state capitol? How about hanging a swastika in the window of your antiques shop next to the menorah?

Try it and get.back to us

1) I am being truthful. You doubting that tells me that you don't have a leg to stand on. Who I am is very relevant because you decided that only an insane person would not see the relevance of the confederate flag. I do - from a historical standpoint.

2) I have no idea who you think I am sock puppeting. There are definitely more than one of us stating the confederate flag is relevant from a historical standpoint.

3) Why would my state capitol fly a Nazi flag when Germany was responsible for the atrocities? I am onine - so no shop. But if you are asking me if Nazi memorabilia has any historical importance, I'll say absolutely! I deal in girl-stuff, i.e. dresses, wedding accessories, and I don't think there is a market for Nazi memorabilia with my customer base. I do have friends who deal in military memorabilia, and they carry Nazi artifacts. I have no issue with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poster who was defending the confederate flag seemed emotionally disturbed. Basically people like that are paranoid schizophrenia. That PP has probably spent YEARS "studying" his "subject" and coming up with facile responses to arguments he's heard hundreds of times. When guys like that PP get too far lost in their delusions, really bad things can happen. Fortunately most are just harmless cranks but not always. The bottom line is that flag is a deliberate racist symbol. That's what it means and it's all that it means, period. It doesn't stand for a brave and noble lost cause. It's always stood for pure stupidity. It's always stood for a horrible war for a worthless "cause"-- slavery--because southern leaders didn't care about slaves and they didn't care about their own sons, they led them to horrible slaughter against the North.

People like PP defending that flag and all those in favor of it are just doubling and tripling down in delusional stupidity. These guys aren't simply racists--they're mentally disturbed people who latch onto a racist world view to provide focus to their pre-existing mental illness. It didn't even have to be racism either. If PP had happened to latch onto something else to obsessively focus on it could have been anything like John Lennon or Jodi Foster.

I'm a white Jewish girl who is also an antiques dealer. I believe history should be preserved; that we can learn so much from the past, that to destroy it or re-write it dooms us to repeat our mistakes. I feel re-writing and/or burying history, no matter how dark it might be, is a hallmark of insanity.

If you want a definition of insanity, political correctness is it.

Nope, it's apparent any all your posts that it's all about money. You make money off of this and it matters not if it is offensive. It's all about the Benjamin's.

Again, I deal in dresses and bridal items, some costume jewelry, so confederate memorabilia isn't my market - my customers wouldn't really want it. So no, I'm not making money off it. But thanks for assuming