Can we get MCPS to allow fundraising for staff positions?

[Anonymous]

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No. Of course not. It will be to a different extent in different schools. Which is why I would give my left hand to decrease class sizes across the board for all schools (you have no idea how hard I've worked to try to make that happen). But it's better than *no aides at all* which is what we have now.

It's certainly better for your child. But it's worse for the public school system as a whole, and for society.

Why is it worse for the public system as a whole, or for society? Is it better for my kid to go to private school? Or for my kid to get a crappy educational foundation and then need more resources later on, that then come out of the public school system?
So short-sighted.
What I wish is that we could all band together and get smaller class sizes for all schools. But I have been so disappointed at the total lack of energy toward making that happen.

You are asking why it's bad for society when rich people can buy better versions of public goods than poor people.

[Anonymous]

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If it's obvious, there should be data. Do you have any data on this?

Oh, right! Because anything that's true has data collected about it! Especially across two different school systems (actually more -- migration to other areas like Arlington and Fairfax as well would be relevant).

OK, do you have any evidence of this happening? I'm sincerely curious. As far as I can tell, people are still paying plenty to live in the wealthy/white clusters, and at least on DCUM, it's still accepted wisdom that the schools in the wealthy/white clusters are the best in MCPS.

That used to be accepted wisdom. If you talk to the parents at those schools, it no longer is. And look at those threads. Things are changing.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Yes. I know that. I already said there's no data. Do you have any data? You simply referred to internet posters. Do you realize that that's anecdotal as well? So we agree -- we're both speculating.

I am not speculating about anything.

So you're not the PP that said it's "still accepted wisdom that the schools in the wealthy/white clusters are the best in MCPS"?

Furthermore, that's not really the relevant question anyway, is it? The relevant question is whether those schools are better than the schools in DCPS (Mann, Janney, etc.) or Arlington or Fairfax that are alternatives for those families. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face if you want those families to leave because you won't let them contribute to making their schools acceptable.

[Anonymous]

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No. Of course not. It will be to a different extent in different schools. Which is why I would give my left hand to decrease class sizes across the board for all schools (you have no idea how hard I've worked to try to make that happen). But it's better than *no aides at all* which is what we have now.

It's certainly better for your child. But it's worse for the public school system as a whole, and for society.

Why is it worse for the public system as a whole, or for society? Is it better for my kid to go to private school? Or for my kid to get a crappy educational foundation and then need more resources later on, that then come out of the public school system?
So short-sighted.
What I wish is that we could all band together and get smaller class sizes for all schools. But I have been so disappointed at the total lack of energy toward making that happen.

You are asking why it's bad for society when rich people can buy better versions of public goods than poor people.

Yes. I am. Taking your general statement -- how does it hurt the rest of society if rich people decide to pitch in and, say, repave their public road. Not asking for money from the state/county. They just pay for it and do it themselves because they're tired of the potholes. That's harming people elsewhere in the county who don't have enough money to repave their road?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. Of course not. It will be to a different extent in different schools. Which is why I would give my left hand to decrease class sizes across the board for all schools (you have no idea how hard I've worked to try to make that happen). But it's better than *no aides at all* which is what we have now.

It's certainly better for your child. But it's worse for the public school system as a whole, and for society.

Why is it worse for the public system as a whole, or for society? Is it better for my kid to go to private school? Or for my kid to get a crappy educational foundation and then need more resources later on, that then come out of the public school system?
So short-sighted.
What I wish is that we could all band together and get smaller class sizes for all schools. But I have been so disappointed at the total lack of energy toward making that happen.

You are asking why it's bad for society when rich people can buy better versions of public goods than poor people.

Yes, it's not as if you're making the world more equal by telling the rich people they're not allowed to buy that. They'll just find a way to buy it elsewhere. The poor people are in exactly the same position they were before, only now you've driven out the tax dollars of the rich people.

[Anonymous]

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Weller Road is Title 1. It already has extra teachers.

No fair that those poor kids get smaller class sizes! Poor kids get all the good stuff!

Nobody said that. Literally NOT ONE PERSON ON THIS THREAD. I'm arguing we should be able to use *our own money* *in addition to our taxes* to get aides in the classroom. With a smile on my face, I will happily subsidize extra teachers at Title 1 / Focus schools. I would chip in for more for those schools if I was allowed to hire an aide for my kid's class. But instead, since I can't, I'm going to scrimp and save and send her to some private school as soon as I have enough $ to do it.
I am NOT alone.

I believe that comment was in response to the PP who said that parents at other schools are "welcome to fundraise." As if everyone across MoCo could fundraise as those in the W district can.

Beyond that, feel free to send your child to private school - that is your choice.

yeah, I wasn't asking your permission. I believe I also "feel free" to lobby on this issue.

[Anonymous]

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No one's asking the school system to pay for smaller class sizes. ALL KIDS NEED SMALLER CLASS SIZES. Jesus. You really would not let one kid eat because another is starving when there's only enough to feed one. Better they both starve.

Who is starving?

I can't help you if you're that dense.

You are comparing a kindergarten class size of 26 to starvation.

Yes, it's what's called a metaphor. And when I referenced "crabs in a bucket", I was comparing humans to crabs. Are you okay?

It's a metaphor that I would not want to use. People die when they don't have food. People do not die when they are in kindergarten classes of 26 students.

Then don't use it. I actually think education is really important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. Of course not. It will be to a different extent in different schools. Which is why I would give my left hand to decrease class sizes across the board for all schools (you have no idea how hard I've worked to try to make that happen). But it's better than *no aides at all* which is what we have now.

It's certainly better for your child. But it's worse for the public school system as a whole, and for society.

I don't think that it has had such a dire result in Janney or Mann (in DCPS). It seems like people have accepted it, and perhaps it has attracted a highly-motivated group of parents to stay in DCPS.

It's important to persuade high-income people to stay in MCPS. I am not exaggerating when I say that a lot of people I know in Bethesda/Potomac want a smaller school system where they can have more impact. For example, Arlington and Falls Church each have their own school districts. How about something similar for Bethesda/Potomac?

[Anonymous]

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Yes, it's not as if you're making the world more equal by telling the rich people they're not allowed to buy that. They'll just find a way to buy it elsewhere. The poor people are in exactly the same position they were before, only now you've driven out the tax dollars of the rich people.

You're basically saying: The poor people lose regardless, so why not let rich people buy their children better "public" schools?

If the rich people want their children to go to private schools, then they should send their children to actual private schools, not to private "public" schools. DCPS had to make a devil's bargain. MCPS is not in the same position.

[Anonymous]

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I don't think that it has had such a dire result in Janney or Mann (in DCPS). It seems like people have accepted it, and perhaps it has attracted a highly-motivated group of parents to stay in DCPS.

It's important to persuade high-income people to stay in MCPS. I am not exaggerating when I say that a lot of people I know in Bethesda/Potomac want a smaller school system where they can have more impact. For example, Arlington and Falls Church each have their own school districts. How about something similar for Bethesda/Potomac?

First I'd like to see some evidence that high-income people are not staying in MCPS, and that this is due to class sizes.

[Anonymous]

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You can find it funny if you want, but at least in the DCPS classrooms in the JKLMM's, they don't have 27 kindergarteners and one teacher in a classroom. You're kidding yourself if you think we have it better. Now, is there a vast imbalance in the schools from NW to NE in DC? Yes. Of course there is. But there's a vast imbalance in the schools in Potomac versus Eastern Moco too. This rule isn't preventing that. All it's doing is making sure the classrooms in the "popular" schools are overcrowded. Way to go.

"Popular" schools? Most students in MCPS do not go to schools in Bethesda, Chevy Chase, or Potomac. They are not the popular schools; they are the schools in places where you can't live unless you're affluent.

Use whatever term you want. You know what I mean -- the schools where they fill the classes right up to the cap limit. Some schools that doesn't happen because they don't have the same population.

This does not happen only in Bethesda, Chevy Chase, and Potomac.

NO ONE SAID IT DOES. No one's arguing that only B, CC ,and Potomac should be allowed to do this.

People are, however, saying that kindergarten class sizes in the schools in Bethesda, Chevy Chase, and Potomac -- or, if you want, the affluent areas in general -- are uniquely large. They're not. There are schools in much less affluent areas that have the same kindergarten class sizes.

OMG. No. That is not what people are saying. People are saying "I live in Bethesda, and my K classes are too large, why am I not allowed to do anything about that when I am willing to do something about that?" I am sure there are schools in less affluent areas that also have large K classes (though not in the TItle 1 and Focus schools). I am ALL FOR letting anyone in any area fundraise for aides/teachers. Not as the ideal or best solution. The ideal or best solution is lowering class sizes for everyone, across the board, without having it be done by parent donations. But that ain't happening.

Oh yes, that solves it. Because the families of children at Weller Road Elementary and Broad Acres Elementary will easily fork over $2,000 each to buy additional teachers. Right?

Weller Road is Title 1. It already has extra teachers.

Do you sincerely believe that all of the families in the county can fundraise to buy additional teachers to the same extent that those in the most affluent schools can?

No. Of course not. It will be to a different extent in different schools. Which is why I would give my left hand to decrease class sizes across the board for all schools (you have no idea how hard I've worked to try to make that happen). But it's better than *no aides at all* which is what we have now.

Reasonable people can and do disagree with you on whether buying teachers for your child in public school is better than not buying such teachers.

And FYI, in some schools, the extent to which parents can fundraise is zero.

yes, I'm well aware that in some schools the extent is zero. And those are Title 1 and Focus schools, who already (rightly) get more teachers/aides. But, no, I do not think your disagreement is reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think that it has had such a dire result in Janney or Mann (in DCPS). It seems like people have accepted it, and perhaps it has attracted a highly-motivated group of parents to stay in DCPS.

It's important to persuade high-income people to stay in MCPS. I am not exaggerating when I say that a lot of people I know in Bethesda/Potomac want a smaller school system where they can have more impact. For example, Arlington and Falls Church each have their own school districts. How about something similar for Bethesda/Potomac?

First I'd like to see some evidence that high-income people are not staying in MCPS, and that this is due to class sizes.

Since no one's done that study, I guess that means it must not be happening. But of course, you want to accept the status quo. That's why MCPS is so great. That's what we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, it's not as if you're making the world more equal by telling the rich people they're not allowed to buy that. They'll just find a way to buy it elsewhere. The poor people are in exactly the same position they were before, only now you've driven out the tax dollars of the rich people.

You're basically saying: The poor people lose regardless, so why not let rich people buy their children better "public" schools?

If the rich people want their children to go to private schools, then they should send their children to actual private schools, not to private "public" schools. DCPS had to make a devil's bargain. MCPS is not in the same position.

Well, I think we are in the same position. Because we are struggling with the same issue -- not enough funding to provide a good educational environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. Of course not. It will be to a different extent in different schools. Which is why I would give my left hand to decrease class sizes across the board for all schools (you have no idea how hard I've worked to try to make that happen). But it's better than *no aides at all* which is what we have now.

It's certainly better for your child. But it's worse for the public school system as a whole, and for society.

I don't think that it has had such a dire result in Janney or Mann (in DCPS). It seems like people have accepted it, and perhaps it has attracted a highly-motivated group of parents to stay in DCPS.

It's important to persuade high-income people to stay in MCPS. I am not exaggerating when I say that a lot of people I know in Bethesda/Potomac want a smaller school system where they can have more impact. For example, Arlington and Falls Church each have their own school districts. How about something similar for Bethesda/Potomac?

I know. If it's so awful and unthinkable, how come no one's trying to undo it in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think that it has had such a dire result in Janney or Mann (in DCPS). It seems like people have accepted it, and perhaps it has attracted a highly-motivated group of parents to stay in DCPS.

It's important to persuade high-income people to stay in MCPS. I am not exaggerating when I say that a lot of people I know in Bethesda/Potomac want a smaller school system where they can have more impact. For example, Arlington and Falls Church each have their own school districts. How about something similar for Bethesda/Potomac?

First I'd like to see some evidence that high-income people are not staying in MCPS, and that this is due to class sizes.

Since no one's done that study, I guess that means it must not be happening. But of course, you want to accept the status quo. That's why MCPS is so great. That's what we do.

My sister is a realtor in Arlington, and she's seeing Bethesda people with kids at her open houses.

[Anonymous]

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Yes. I am. Taking your general statement -- how does it hurt the rest of society if rich people decide to pitch in and, say, repave their public road. Not asking for money from the state/county. They just pay for it and do it themselves because they're tired of the potholes. That's harming people elsewhere in the county who don't have enough money to repave their road?

How does it hurt the rest of society if people in rich neighborhoods decide to pitch in and, say, be responsible for their own neighborhood security with gates, walls, and a private security force?