So, what is wrong with Hardy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now I figured out exactly why white northeast liberals are worse racists than white conservative southerners. White northeast liberals surgically segregate undesirable races out if their lives while southern conservatives integrate with the natural friction but at least they integrate .

Having lived in both places I can say that was not my experience AT ALL.

Anyway what are the other criticsms of Hardy besides it's ib rate, it's size and it's uniform policy?

You missed the most important one. Test scores, which though not perfect,are the best measure of education quality available.

I am very happy Hardy has a stable staff and seems poised to make progress. We sent our oldest to private during the principal churn years, but there is a chance we could send the younger one to Hardy.

Yep, test scores are the biggest deterrent. Ward 3 kids simply perform at a much higher level, as a whole, than kids from outside of Ward 3, as a whole. Hence the tit-for-tat about snobbery and racism; but when you get down to it the scores speak for themselves. You can argue about the generational, social causes for lower test scores, but that's beside the point when parents desire the best possible education for their kid(s), in the present. Parents tend to want high-achieving kids to be surrounded by (mostly) other high achieving kids. Once this is acknowledged, what else is there to discuss other than uniforms and P.E.?

Anyone who works in education in DC will tell you that this isn't really true. Teachers who 'inherit' high performing students don't have to work nearly as hard as those who do not. Income level is still the largest determining factor for academic performance meaning high SES children consistently score higher than low SES children. There's no special magic happening at any WOTP schools. Remove many of those teachers to a low performing school and they wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to the same results. So, you're not necessarily getting the best possible education. What you're getting is a school with other children who are high performing, many also high SES, and typically more resources, because parents can afford to provide them when the District wont.

Thanks for your insight, PP.

You're right. Teachers matter, but not that much. Facilities matter, but not that much. Extra-curriculars matter, but not that much.

What matters most is how many well-prepared, hard-working, well-supported children, i.e., high-SES children, are at the school. Those children will educate each other and challenge each other to reach his or her full potential.

So, how many IB children are at Hardy this year? How many in the 6th grade?

Have you called the Principal to ask? She not keeping a secret, it's just that she does not monitor DCUM.

As has been reported on DCUM -- this thread, I think -- the principal has stated that she will not release he information out of respect for OOB.

This is not correct. She will give them if you ask - in fact, at one point, they were posted on the Hardy website in conjunction with information about the open houses. She's not keeping a secret, there is no grand conspiracy, there is no terrible news about few IB students attending - all you have to do is ask and she will tell you.

So, what are the numbers then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now I figured out exactly why white northeast liberals are worse racists than white conservative southerners. White northeast liberals surgically segregate undesirable races out if their lives while southern conservatives integrate with the natural friction but at least they integrate .

Having lived in both places I can say that was not my experience AT ALL.

Anyway what are the other criticsms of Hardy besides it's ib rate, it's size and it's uniform policy?

You missed the most important one. Test scores, which though not perfect,are the best measure of education quality available.

I am very happy Hardy has a stable staff and seems poised to make progress. We sent our oldest to private during the principal churn years, but there is a chance we could send the younger one to Hardy.

Yep, test scores are the biggest deterrent. Ward 3 kids simply perform at a much higher level, as a whole, than kids from outside of Ward 3, as a whole. Hence the tit-for-tat about snobbery and racism; but when you get down to it the scores speak for themselves. You can argue about the generational, social causes for lower test scores, but that's beside the point when parents desire the best possible education for their kid(s), in the present. Parents tend to want high-achieving kids to be surrounded by (mostly) other high achieving kids. Once this is acknowledged, what else is there to discuss other than uniforms and P.E.?

Anyone who works in education in DC will tell you that this isn't really true. Teachers who 'inherit' high performing students don't have to work nearly as hard as those who do not. Income level is still the largest determining factor for academic performance meaning high SES children consistently score higher than low SES children. There's no special magic happening at any WOTP schools. Remove many of those teachers to a low performing school and they wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to the same results. So, you're not necessarily getting the best possible education. What you're getting is a school with other children who are high performing, many also high SES, and typically more resources, because parents can afford to provide them when the District wont.

Thanks for your insight, PP.

You're right. Teachers matter, but not that much. Facilities matter, but not that much. Extra-curriculars matter, but not that much.

What matters most is how many well-prepared, hard-working, well-supported children, i.e., high-SES children, are at the school. Those children will educate each other and challenge each other to reach his or her full potential.

So, how many IB children are at Hardy this year? How many in the 6th grade?

Have you called the Principal to ask? She not keeping a secret, it's just that she does not monitor DCUM.

As has been reported on DCUM -- this thread, I think -- the principal has stated that she will not release he information out of respect for OOB.

This is not correct. She will give them if you ask - in fact, at one point, they were posted on the Hardy website in conjunction with information about the open houses. She's not keeping a secret, there is no grand conspiracy, there is no terrible news about few IB students attending - all you have to do is ask and she will tell you.

So, what are the numbers then?

They were posted here about 60 pages ago. And again: if you want them, go ask the Principal. She will tell you. Quit whining about it on this site when the solution is easily at your fingertips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now I figured out exactly why white northeast liberals are worse racists than white conservative southerners. White northeast liberals surgically segregate undesirable races out if their lives while southern conservatives integrate with the natural friction but at least they integrate .

Having lived in both places I can say that was not my experience AT ALL.

Anyway what are the other criticsms of Hardy besides it's ib rate, it's size and it's uniform policy?

You missed the most important one. Test scores, which though not perfect,are the best measure of education quality available.

I am very happy Hardy has a stable staff and seems poised to make progress. We sent our oldest to private during the principal churn years, but there is a chance we could send the younger one to Hardy.

Yep, test scores are the biggest deterrent. Ward 3 kids simply perform at a much higher level, as a whole, than kids from outside of Ward 3, as a whole. Hence the tit-for-tat about snobbery and racism; but when you get down to it the scores speak for themselves. You can argue about the generational, social causes for lower test scores, but that's beside the point when parents desire the best possible education for their kid(s), in the present. Parents tend to want high-achieving kids to be surrounded by (mostly) other high achieving kids. Once this is acknowledged, what else is there to discuss other than uniforms and P.E.?

Anyone who works in education in DC will tell you that this isn't really true. Teachers who 'inherit' high performing students don't have to work nearly as hard as those who do not. Income level is still the largest determining factor for academic performance meaning high SES children consistently score higher than low SES children. There's no special magic happening at any WOTP schools. Remove many of those teachers to a low performing school and they wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to the same results. So, you're not necessarily getting the best possible education. What you're getting is a school with other children who are high performing, many also high SES, and typically more resources, because parents can afford to provide them when the District wont.

Thanks for your insight, PP.

You're right. Teachers matter, but not that much. Facilities matter, but not that much. Extra-curriculars matter, but not that much.

What matters most is how many well-prepared, hard-working, well-supported children, i.e., high-SES children, are at the school. Those children will educate each other and challenge each other to reach his or her full potential.

So, how many IB children are at Hardy this year? How many in the 6th grade?

Have you called the Principal to ask? She not keeping a secret, it's just that she does not monitor DCUM.

As has been reported on DCUM -- this thread, I think -- the principal has stated that she will not release he information out of respect for OOB.

This is not correct. She will give them if you ask - in fact, at one point, they were posted on the Hardy website in conjunction with information about the open houses. She's not keeping a secret, there is no grand conspiracy, there is no terrible news about few IB students attending - all you have to do is ask and she will tell you.

OK. I'll email her this week and post her response here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They were posted here about 60 pages ago. And again: if you want them, go ask the Principal. She will tell you. Quit whining about it on this site when the solution is easily at your fingertips.

No, they weren't. Not in a meaningful way. The number of feeder school kids was posted. The problem with that number is there is no basis for comparison. In past years -- and at other schools -- the number that was released is just kids residing within the boundaries. That number has not been released. The question that people care about is whether the IB number is increasing. To answer that question, you need either this year's IB-only number, or previous years' feeder school numbers. Those numbers have not been released.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They were posted here about 60 pages ago. And again: if you want them, go ask the Principal. She will tell you. Quit whining about it on this site when the solution is easily at your fingertips.

No, they weren't. Not in a meaningful way. The number of feeder school kids was posted. The problem with that number is there is no basis for comparison. In past years -- and at other schools -- the number that was released is just kids residing within the boundaries. That number has not been released. The question that people care about is whether the IB number is increasing. To answer that question, you need either this year's IB-only number, or previous years' feeder school numbers. Those numbers have not been released.

So call the Principal and ask. Stop whining about it already and do something to get the answer you are looking for.

[Anonymous]

PP who made this request in email, did you get a response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP who made this request in email, did you get a response?

they just posted this morning.

how about --anyone who dares to ask this SAME question again, stops themselves until they have CALLED OR WRITTEN to the principal to ask. I doubt she is "hiding" a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, test scores are the biggest deterrent. Ward 3 kids simply perform at a much higher level, as a whole, than kids from outside of Ward 3, as a whole. Hence the tit-for-tat about snobbery and racism; but when you get down to it the scores speak for themselves. You can argue about the generational, social causes for lower test scores, but that's beside the point when parents desire the best possible education for their kid(s), in the present. Parents tend to want high-achieving kids to be surrounded by (mostly) other high achieving kids. Once this is acknowledged, what else is there to discuss other than uniforms and P.E.?

Anyone who works in education in DC will tell you that this isn't really true. Teachers who 'inherit' high performing students don't have to work nearly as hard as those who do not. Income level is still the largest determining factor for academic performance meaning high SES children consistently score higher than low SES children. There's no special magic happening at any WOTP schools. Remove many of those teachers to a low performing school and they wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to the same results. So, you're not necessarily getting the best possible education. What you're getting is a school with other children who are high performing, many also high SES, and typically more resources, because parents can afford to provide them when the District wont.

Thanks for your insight, PP.

You're right. Teachers matter, but not that much. Facilities matter, but not that much. Extra-curriculars matter, but not that much.

What matters most is how many well-prepared, hard-working, well-supported children, i.e., high-SES children, are at the school. Those children will educate each other and challenge each other to reach his or her full potential.

So, how many IB children are at Hardy this year? How many in the 6th grade?

Actually not what I wrote or implied. People look at test scores and assume that means that the school with the test scores has the best when it comes to quality education. That's not the case. There are a lot of things that go into test scores and one of the biggest factors is parental involvement, couple that with level of education and income of the parents and you've got factors that the school doesn't control, but play a huge role. If you have a class full of my kids, who are the children of two well-educated, gainfully employed, very involved parents, then you've got a different situation than someone working at a school where the opposite is true. The point is, don't avoid Hardy (or other schools) simply because of test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, test scores are the biggest deterrent. Ward 3 kids simply perform at a much higher level, as a whole, than kids from outside of Ward 3, as a whole. Hence the tit-for-tat about snobbery and racism; but when you get down to it the scores speak for themselves. You can argue about the generational, social causes for lower test scores, but that's beside the point when parents desire the best possible education for their kid(s), in the present. Parents tend to want high-achieving kids to be surrounded by (mostly) other high achieving kids. Once this is acknowledged, what else is there to discuss other than uniforms and P.E.?

Anyone who works in education in DC will tell you that this isn't really true. Teachers who 'inherit' high performing students don't have to work nearly as hard as those who do not. Income level is still the largest determining factor for academic performance meaning high SES children consistently score higher than low SES children. There's no special magic happening at any WOTP schools. Remove many of those teachers to a low performing school and they wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to the same results. So, you're not necessarily getting the best possible education. What you're getting is a school with other children who are high performing, many also high SES, and typically more resources, because parents can afford to provide them when the District wont.

Thanks for your insight, PP.

You're right. Teachers matter, but not that much. Facilities matter, but not that much. Extra-curriculars matter, but not that much.

What matters most is how many well-prepared, hard-working, well-supported children, i.e., high-SES children, are at the school. Those children will educate each other and challenge each other to reach his or her full potential.

So, how many IB children are at Hardy this year? How many in the 6th grade?

Actually not what I wrote or implied. People look at test scores and assume that means that the school with the test scores has the best when it comes to quality education. That's not the case. There are a lot of things that go into test scores and one of the biggest factors is parental involvement, couple that with level of education and income of the parents and you've got factors that the school doesn't control, but play a huge role. If you have a class full of my kids, who are the children of two well-educated, gainfully employed, very involved parents, then you've got a different situation than someone working at a school where the opposite is true. The point is, don't avoid Hardy (or other schools) simply because of test scores.

I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, test scores are the biggest deterrent. Ward 3 kids simply perform at a much higher level, as a whole, than kids from outside of Ward 3, as a whole. Hence the tit-for-tat about snobbery and racism; but when you get down to it the scores speak for themselves. You can argue about the generational, social causes for lower test scores, but that's beside the point when parents desire the best possible education for their kid(s), in the present. Parents tend to want high-achieving kids to be surrounded by (mostly) other high achieving kids. Once this is acknowledged, what else is there to discuss other than uniforms and P.E.?

Anyone who works in education in DC will tell you that this isn't really true. Teachers who 'inherit' high performing students don't have to work nearly as hard as those who do not. Income level is still the largest determining factor for academic performance meaning high SES children consistently score higher than low SES children. There's no special magic happening at any WOTP schools. Remove many of those teachers to a low performing school and they wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to the same results. So, you're not necessarily getting the best possible education. What you're getting is a school with other children who are high performing, many also high SES, and typically more resources, because parents can afford to provide them when the District wont.

Thanks for your insight, PP.

You're right. Teachers matter, but not that much. Facilities matter, but not that much. Extra-curriculars matter, but not that much.

What matters most is how many well-prepared, hard-working, well-supported children, i.e., high-SES children, are at the school. Those children will educate each other and challenge each other to reach his or her full potential.

So, how many IB children are at Hardy this year? How many in the 6th grade?

Actually not what I wrote or implied. People look at test scores and assume that means that the school with the test scores has the best when it comes to quality education. That's not the case. There are a lot of things that go into test scores and one of the biggest factors is parental involvement, couple that with level of education and income of the parents and you've got factors that the school doesn't control, but play a huge role. If you have a class full of my kids, who are the children of two well-educated, gainfully employed, very involved parents, then you've got a different situation than someone working at a school where the opposite is true. The point is, don't avoid Hardy (or other schools) simply because of test scores.

I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate.

If those are your criteria, then you should pass on Hardy. (I am really impressed by the math and science teachers at Hardy, as well as the work of the stufents at the science fair, which are key criteria for me.). But why are you exhorting other parents to pass on Hardy based on these criteria? What do you have to gain?

[Anonymous]

I don't read the prior poster as "exhorting" parents to do anything. There is one particularly vociferous poster on this board who repeatedly threatens others "not to criticize" Hardy for one thing or the other, as if she has any sort of authority whatsoever to do something about it. I think the poster is responding to that crank.

Quite simply, there are a few very specific criticisms of Hardy that are perfectly legitimate criticisms and I think the poster wants to tell the pro-Hardy crank to bugger off.

[Anonymous]

"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

Some of you don't have a lot of confidence in your own children if you think that the fact of them going to school with a bunch of poor kids is going to somehow ruin their lives or wreck their academic careers. My kid went to Hardy, and it had the opposite effect - it made him a better student and better able to navigate the diversity of rich and poor and black and white the exist in DCPS and in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

Some of you don't have a lot of confidence in your own children if you think that the fact of them going to school with a bunch of poor kids is going to somehow ruin their lives or wreck their academic careers. My kid went to Hardy, and it had the opposite effect - it made him a better student and better able to navigate the diversity of rich and poor and black and white the exist in DCPS and in the real world.

That's fine, but its a pretty low bar to say that a school won't ruin your kid's life or wreck her academic career. Shouldn't we demand better than that. IMO diversity is fine but as a priority for us, it takes a back seat to rigorous academics and rich course and extracurricular offerings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I understood your point, PP. I was taking it to its logical conclusion: Don't pass on Hardy because of its lousy DCCAS scores. Pass on Hardy because of its 55% FARMs rate and 13% IB rate. "


Suppose the IB rate for 2014-2015 comes in at 15%, and the FARMS rate is down to 51%? Would that (combined with academic improvements) convince you to try it?

Some of you don't have a lot of confidence in your own children if you think that the fact of them going to school with a bunch of poor kids is going to somehow ruin their lives or wreck their academic careers. My kid went to Hardy, and it had the opposite effect - it made him a better student and better able to navigate the diversity of rich and poor and black and white the exist in DCPS and in the real world.

That's fine, but its a pretty low bar to say that a school won't ruin your kid's life or wreck her academic career. Shouldn't we demand better than that. IMO diversity is fine but as a priority for us, it takes a back seat to rigorous academics and rich course and extracurricular offerings.

our

A valid point. But if your only question is "how many IB go to Hardy" (which does seem like it is the only question for many DCUM-ers, you are asking the wrong question. Because of course you can have rigorous academics and rich course and extracurricular offerings (as Hardy does now) without having a high % of IB families, and even with a large number of poor or underperforming kids.