Harvard faculty vote to limit A grades to no more than 20% of the class

[Anonymous]

Hired gun college consultants and striver parents have created a rate race to get in to college. Then once they are in college, those same kids flame out because it wasn't the kid anyway. Many wind up with mental issues and imposter syndrome. Not sure what it really accomplished but they wind up with that HYP degree that they can name drop at the suburban bus stop in 20 years.

[Anonymous]

My kids did well in college and are very accomplished by Gen Z standards but put them in my 1980s college classes and they would have struggled mightily. Too much reading for them to handle, actual problems to solve, instead of multiple choice tests with obvious answers.

Sure kids specialize earlier now, memorize facts and figures, but often lack critical thinking skills and resilience. Like it or not standards have fallen. When everyone gets an A it is not because everyone is outstanding it is because the bar is too low to allow meaningful differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hired gun college consultants and striver parents have created a rate race to get in to college. Then once they are in college, those same kids flame out because it wasn't the kid anyway. Many wind up with mental issues and imposter syndrome. Not sure what it really accomplished but they wind up with that HYP degree that they can name drop at the suburban bus stop in 20 years.

Not really.

Standards in GPA/rigor and ECs has increased because emphasis on test scores have decreased.
If you think the cost of Kaplan test prep is prohibitively expensive, wait till you get the bill on an impactful EC or recruitable sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids did well in college and are very accomplished by Gen Z standards but put them in my 1980s college classes and they would have struggled mightily. Too much reading for them to handle, actual problems to solve, instead of multiple choice tests with obvious answers.

Sure kids specialize earlier now, memorize facts and figures, but often lack critical thinking skills and resilience. Like it or not standards have fallen. When everyone gets an A it is not because everyone is outstanding it is because the bar is too low to allow meaningful differentiation.

+100

[Anonymous]

Everyone gets As because there are buffers in place to raise scores if lower grades are earned for difficult exams. I know this first hand from my daughter’s difficult stem major at an Ivy. If the extra assignments, points and bonus questions are removed, the curve will emerge naturally. These practices begin in HS btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets As because there are buffers in place to raise scores if lower grades are earned for difficult exams. I know this first hand from my daughter’s difficult stem major at an Ivy. If the extra assignments, points and bonus questions are removed, the curve will emerge naturally. These practices begin in HS btw.

We are at public and my kids don't get extra credits and extra assignments. A couple of retakes here and there but inconsequential.

I think kids today's are expected to do so much for admission. I got into MIT, and though I like to believe I have more common sense than my 17 yo, she is way more academically accomplished than her father (harvard in 90s) was.

I am sure there are students who slack and are rotten apples, but I believe this generation of college students have exceptional stress and distractions/temptations that my generation never had to deal with. My generation created tools and enable our children to use them in early years, sign them up for a competive activities from an early age, and now we blame them without taking responsibility for the things we do. (this includes climate change/the debt/etc). I hope this generation forgives

[Anonymous]

What is competive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets As because there are buffers in place to raise scores if lower grades are earned for difficult exams. I know this first hand from my daughter’s difficult stem major at an Ivy. If the extra assignments, points and bonus questions are removed, the curve will emerge naturally. These practices begin in HS btw.

We are at public and my kids don't get extra credits and extra assignments. A couple of retakes here and there but inconsequential.

I think kids today's are expected to do so much for admission. I got into MIT, and though I like to believe I have more common sense than my 17 yo, she is way more academically accomplished than her father (harvard in 90s) was.

I am sure there are students who slack and are rotten apples, but I believe this generation of college students have exceptional stress and distractions/temptations that my generation never had to deal with. My generation created tools and enable our children to use them in early years, sign them up for a competive activities from an early age, and now we blame them without taking responsibility for the things we do. (this includes climate change/the debt/etc). I hope this generation forgives

Hit post by accident.

I hope this generation forgives us. There are changes that need to be made, but I hope not one that is inappropriately reactionary and incorporates the opinion of the new generation as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets As because there are buffers in place to raise scores if lower grades are earned for difficult exams. I know this first hand from my daughter’s difficult stem major at an Ivy. If the extra assignments, points and bonus questions are removed, the curve will emerge naturally. These practices begin in HS btw.

We are at public and my kids don't get extra credits and extra assignments. A couple of retakes here and there but inconsequential.

I think kids today's are expected to do so much for admission. I got into MIT, and though I like to believe I have more common sense than my 17 yo, she is way more academically accomplished than her father (harvard in 90s) was.

I am sure there are students who slack and are rotten apples, but I believe this generation of college students have exceptional stress and distractions/temptations that my generation never had to deal with. My generation created tools and enable our children to use them in early years, sign them up for a competive activities from an early age, and now we blame them without taking responsibility for the things we do. (this includes climate change/the debt/etc). I hope this generation forgives

Parents from MIT and Harvard and the kid goes to public !. What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students at Harvard are no smarter than they were in the 90's, and back then the average GPA was below 3.5.

Standards have gotten softer. There should be corrective measures to fix this issue. However, I do fear that lowering GPAs will hurt Harvard students seeking medical and law school admissions.

To be fair, they are absolutely smarter than they were in the 1990s. The kids are just smarter these days. More accomplished at a young age. I doubt half the class of 1992 would be able to get in these days.

+1. One of my graduate school higher level stats problem sets was looking at selectivity and qualifications of admitted students over time. Anyone who thinks it was harder and more selective in the 1990s is willfully blind or shockingly ignorant.

Colleges have gotten crazy selective. However, the students admitted are not actually more intelligent. Anyone who believes the current generation of students is more capable than previous generations has their head in the sand and is avoiding unpleasant realities. Whether it is because of screens or something else, the kids are not alright and need help.

Look at AMC or f=ma exam from the 90s vs today, the competition is on a whole 'nother level.

People specialize more fiercely today, and starting at younger and younger ages. This is evident in competitions for math, science, sports, music, chess, etc. The result is some really amazing competitors in these domains, but I don't think that means people are becoming overall more intelligent. If anything, I fear we may be losing the generalists who can think creatively and make interesting connections between domains. Some of these kids are never have time to think about random things freely, read broadly, or discover their own intellectual passions because they are busy spending almost all their free time at ballet, soccer, skating lessons, or whatever their parents signed them up for since age 3.

Talk about "having [your] head in the sand". Now let's see you bring your evidence for this new claim.

Exactly what is it that you doubt in the previous paragraph? The fact that upper middle class kids are encouraged to be more specialized and start specializing at earlier ages? The fact that upper middle class kids are more scheduled than those of previous generations? Or the fact that specialization is at odds with being a generalist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets As because there are buffers in place to raise scores if lower grades are earned for difficult exams. I know this first hand from my daughter’s difficult stem major at an Ivy. If the extra assignments, points and bonus questions are removed, the curve will emerge naturally. These practices begin in HS btw.

We are at public and my kids don't get extra credits and extra assignments. A couple of retakes here and there but inconsequential.

I think kids today's are expected to do so much for admission. I got into MIT, and though I like to believe I have more common sense than my 17 yo, she is way more academically accomplished than her father (harvard in 90s) was.

I am sure there are students who slack and are rotten apples, but I believe this generation of college students have exceptional stress and distractions/temptations that my generation never had to deal with. My generation created tools and enable our children to use them in early years, sign them up for a competive activities from an early age, and now we blame them without taking responsibility for the things we do. (this includes climate change/the debt/etc). I hope this generation forgives

Parents from MIT and Harvard and the kid goes to public !. What am I missing?

An understanding of regression to the mean

[Anonymous]

I like how my kid’s university does it. Different courses can have different grading scales, but the prof has to publish it in the syllabus at the beginning of the term. Anyone who meets criteria - whether it’s 100% or 0% of students - gets an A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Has anybody mentioned that there are some examples of this elsewhere? The Government department at Georgetown, for example, caps As at 20%.

What if 30% of students demonstrate absolute mastery of the material and assignments? Do they just give people Bs when they deserve As?

Yes. The top 20% receive As, next 20% A-s. After that there's no cap on Bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hired gun college consultants and striver parents have created a rate race to get in to college. Then once they are in college, those same kids flame out because it wasn't the kid anyway. Many wind up with mental issues and imposter syndrome. Not sure what it really accomplished but they wind up with that HYP degree that they can name drop at the suburban bus stop in 20 years.

NP I have noticed this too. 2 great kids in our community in recent years, these are kids I have known since they were little. Bright kids, nice families, could have been amazing fits at great schools like Tufts, NYU, Smith, Vanderbilt, U Michigan, so many so many good options could have been amazing rites of passage for the kids. Instead parents had them tutored within an inch of their lives, put in these insane private squash/fencing coaching, had an army of consultants who started non profits for them. Both got into Ivies, they are now working for their parents or still finding their ways. College sounded hard for these kids when they should have really excelled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets As because there are buffers in place to raise scores if lower grades are earned for difficult exams. I know this first hand from my daughter’s difficult stem major at an Ivy. If the extra assignments, points and bonus questions are removed, the curve will emerge naturally. These practices begin in HS btw.

We are at public and my kids don't get extra credits and extra assignments. A couple of retakes here and there but inconsequential.

I think kids today's are expected to do so much for admission. I got into MIT, and though I like to believe I have more common sense than my 17 yo, she is way more academically accomplished than her father (harvard in 90s) was.

I am sure there are students who slack and are rotten apples, but I believe this generation of college students have exceptional stress and distractions/temptations that my generation never had to deal with. My generation created tools and enable our children to use them in early years, sign them up for a competive activities from an early age, and now we blame them without taking responsibility for the things we do. (this includes climate change/the debt/etc). I hope this generation forgives

Parents from MIT and Harvard and the kid goes to public !. What am I missing?

Because both of you got in based on “personalities”.