what is the difference between Madison HS, Oakton, and Reston high schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

I don't believe it is cheaper. It is much more complicated and requires membership from the school system. IB has lots of rules and is way less flexible. It also requires more teacher training (which is not cheap.) And, I am pretty sure there must be an IB coordinator at each school.
The program for a diploma is highly structured--and, again, not flexible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

I don't believe it is cheaper. It is much more complicated and requires membership from the school system. IB has lots of rules and is way less flexible. It also requires more teacher training (which is not cheap.) And, I am pretty sure there must be an IB coordinator at each school.
The program for a diploma is highly structured--and, again, not flexible.

You have chosen to… say stuff… without even looking at the FCPS budget documents that are online. 🙄

IB is cheaper.

There are only 8 IB coordinators out of 25,000 FCPS employees.

The IB program is soooo complicated that the IB coordinator can explain it all to you in less than an hour.

As for “not flexible” you take courses in the core subjects (math science English social studies world languages) just like you do in non IB programs.

But don’t let ignorance hold you back from having opinions…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

dp. I was an IB student. Many kids want the extra challenge of the IB diploma, but ultimately the diploma doesn't matter. Kids can get the benefit of an IB education without the diploma. The benefits come from the more rigorous class content. That's why the school board doesn't care to eliminate established IB programs; low diploma numbers are meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

dp. I was an IB student. Many kids want the extra challenge of the IB diploma, but ultimately the diploma doesn't matter. Kids can get the benefit of an IB education without the diploma. The benefits come from the more rigorous class content. That's why the school board doesn't care to eliminate established IB programs; low diploma numbers are meaningless.

Or, more likely, the School Board isn’t paying attention, is fooled by the IBO marketing fluff about creating “lifelong learners” and “global citizens,” or is unwilling to admit they made a mistake by saddling so many schools with IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

dp. I was an IB student. Many kids want the extra challenge of the IB diploma, but ultimately the diploma doesn't matter. Kids can get the benefit of an IB education without the diploma. The benefits come from the more rigorous class content. That's why the school board doesn't care to eliminate established IB programs; low diploma numbers are meaningless.

Serious question: why do you think it is "more rigorous?"
IB people seem to think that AP students don't write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

dp. I was an IB student. Many kids want the extra challenge of the IB diploma, but ultimately the diploma doesn't matter. Kids can get the benefit of an IB education without the diploma. The benefits come from the more rigorous class content. That's why the school board doesn't care to eliminate established IB programs; low diploma numbers are meaningless.

The most rigerous path through any IB high school should be the IB diploma, meaning the diploma is not meaningless. IB is meant to end in the diploma, it is suppose to be the same path and classes that kids in Europe and other regions of the world are taking. Meaning, the kids in an IB program are supposed to end with the same type of diploma as the kids in earing IB diplomas coming out of their HS abroad. That is part of the appeal of the program. If kids are taking IB classes ala carte, then they are 1) not taking the most rigorous path at their HS 2) the money that goes into paying for the IB curriculum, training to teach the curriculum, and the coordinator position is not being well used.

The school board keeps IB at the schools that it does, mainly schools with high FARMs rates, thinking that it will entice MC and UMC kids to attend those schools to get this specialty diploma. The only school that sees a large influx of kids for IB is SLHS from Herndon HS and that is because parents see SLHS as a better alternative then Herndon HS, not because they love IB. Maybe kids transfer into Robinson and Madison for IB but I would guess that is a small number of kids. The school board thinks that it looks great to have this special program at these schools, even when the majority of the kids at the schools do not take IB classes and very few actually complete the diploma.

AP classes are rigorous on their own. They might be different then IB but they are plenty rigorous. If IB was a stronger program then you can bet that McLean and Langley and TJ would be demanding it be implemented at their schools. The truth is, it isn't. There are strengths and weaknesses to both IB and AP but AP does a great job preparing kids for college, is readily accepted for college credit, is more flexible, and costs less then IB. But the School Board refuses to treat IB the way every other county in our area does, as a niche program that should be open to people who are interested and not foisted on entire schools with little to no interest in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The program is expensive and 80% of the kids are not using it for its intended purpose.

lmao the IB diploma program is not expensive. It consists of 8 school-based teacher positions (out of ~25,000 full-time staff) and cost $3.3 million in FY25 (out of a $4bn total FCPS budget so 0.08% of the budget).

DP. It's more expensive than AP, and provides limited benefits while adding unnecessary complexity to FCPS, inviting pupil placements, and complicating things like boundary adjustments. If FCPS really wants to be revising boundaries every five years, they should get rid of IB.

People just... say stuff.

IB is not more expensive than AP. In fact AP is more expensive than IB. There is no reason to think IB adds more complexity than AP or has more impact on boundaries than AP.

Then they have done a crappy job explaining the program to people. More kids pupil place out of IB schools then complete the diploma. Every other county in our area has made the IB an opt in program that you transfer for and not forced schools to be IB only. APS has kids apply to be in IB at W-L, Loudoun has IB as an application program. The rest of the student population as access to AP. FCPS is probably not going to do that because they know that it will be a small number of kids who want the IB program.

dp. I was an IB student. Many kids want the extra challenge of the IB diploma, but ultimately the diploma doesn't matter. Kids can get the benefit of an IB education without the diploma. The benefits come from the more rigorous class content. That's why the school board doesn't care to eliminate established IB programs; low diploma numbers are meaningless.

Serious question: why do you think it is "more rigorous?"
IB people seem to think that AP students don't write.

IB is an alternate program that is more writing focused, but it's not more rigorous than AP. I didn’t mean to imply that.

The benefit of both programs is in the course content. They're both more rigorous than the mainstream classroom.

[Anonymous]

Someone posted earlier that IB is not more expensive. Where do I find that information. I'm not very savvy with the FCPS budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone posted earlier that IB is not more expensive. Where do I find that information. I'm not very savvy with the FCPS budget.

There is a curriculum cost for both programs. I know IB Teachers require specialized training and that there is an IB coordinator at each school, I don't know if there are equivalent expenses for AP. I think the key is to take the total cost and divide it by the number of kids who complete IB/AP classes.

There is another issue that IB HL classes are what are accepted by colleges, not the SL classes, while all AP classes with a passing score are accepted at colleges. So there is a cost to the family because IB students ed up with fewer transferable credits to college. And there are colleges that you have to show them the IB syllabus and do a bunch of leg work in order to get credit for the IB HL class.

[Anonymous]

are there any schools in MD or VA who do the AICE Cambridge program?

[Anonymous]

There is a curriculum cost for both programs. I know IB Teachers require specialized training and that there is an IB coordinator at each school, I don't know if there are equivalent expenses for AP.

For the nth time... there are 8 IB coordinators out of 25,000 FCPS positions (insignificant) and there are 5 full time positions associated with AP (also insignificant).

I think the key is to take the total cost and divide it by the number of kids who complete IB/AP classes.

If you think $4 million divided by the number of AP students is going to be a meaningfully different number than $3 million divided by the number of IB students then you're not thinking very clearly.

[Anonymous]

The school board keeps IB at the schools that it does, mainly schools with high FARMs rates, thinking that it will entice MC and UMC kids to attend those schools to get this specialty diploma.

What they actually think is not that IB will draw good students, but that IB will provide an advanced academic option for the minority students.

The only school that sees a large influx of kids for IB is SLHS from Herndon HS and that is because parents see SLHS as a better alternative then Herndon HS, not because they love IB.

Herndon offers AP. The AP is not enough to keep kids at Herndon, which should tell you it isn't as great as you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The school board keeps IB at the schools that it does, mainly schools with high FARMs rates, thinking that it will entice MC and UMC kids to attend those schools to get this specialty diploma.

What they actually think is not that IB will draw good students, but that IB will provide an advanced academic option for the minority students.

The only school that sees a large influx of kids for IB is SLHS from Herndon HS and that is because parents see SLHS as a better alternative then Herndon HS, not because they love IB.

Herndon offers AP. The AP is not enough to keep kids at Herndon, which should tell you it isn't as great as you think it is.

No. You have to look at the other schools. There are a lot more kids Pupil placing out of IB schools than AP Schools.

Here is another reason Herndon kids may be pupil placing into South Lakes:

The AAP kids go to Hughes from Herndon Middle School. Hughes shares a campus with South Lakes. The kids are accustomed to going there.
It has the Middle Years IB Program and I am confident that the focus is to get the kids into IB in high school.

Until FCPS eliminates the IB program, this is likely to consider. The students are being told, I am sure, that IB is superior.

[Anonymous]

Just ran the rough numbers:

Delta of kids transferring out of IB schools: -1025
Now I didn't do a deep dive and some may be transferring from IB to IB, but the number is pretty telling.

I also realize there are other reasons. However, the delta speaks for itself.

The only schools with a positive delta are Edison-at 57 and South Lakes at 42.

Of course, there are other reasons kids transfer, but this sure gives an excuse to leave a lower performing school. And, ironically, those schools might be just fine if the kids stayed.

Losing over 1000 kids from IB schools is kind of telling.