DC bike group says fewer now riding bikes to work than in 2012 (?!?!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone tell the anti-car zealots at DDOT. They seem to think that if they make traffic terrible enough (ahem, "road diet"), that everyone will switch to bikes. The data make clear that's not happening.

DDOT officials get dressed down here by Black Washingtonians telling them they don't want their bike lanes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/11/15/bike-lanes-road-safety-south-dakota-avenue/

There's a grand total of three miles of bike lanes in Ward 8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

It's interesting that you are completely and totally obsessed with proving that things that never happened actually happened. Please desist with your nonsense. It is tiresome.

Number of bike commuters in Washington DC:

2012 -- 13,493
2013 -- 14,986
2014 -- 13,330
2015 -- 14,718
2016 -- 16,647
2017 -- 18,624
2018 -- 16,175
2019 -- 15,528
2020 -- 16,012
2021 -- 7,504
2022 -- 11,309
2023 -- 13,276

I’ve been a bike commuter for many of these years and was never surveyed. How can it be that you know the numbers of bike commuters down to single digits without even contacting me?

The truth is that these numbers, used in this fashion, are highly misleading. You are prone to accusing others of lying, but either you are statistically illiterate or being deceptive. Which one is it?

Yeah and what's the deal with these presidential polls where they don't interview every single voter in America? So misleading.

Reporting extrapolations from a poll without reporting the associated margin of error is the height of statistical idiocy.

Uh, huh. I'm sorry all the numbers everywhere show hardly anyone bikes to work. Regardless of what survey you look at, we're talking about three percent or less of commuters bike.

[Anonymous]

DDOT says female commuters biking to work is at an all time low. Less than two percent. It would be hilarious if they sorted bike commuters by race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Check out these stats from the League of American Bicyclists. They say 13,276 Washingtonians commuted to work on bike in 2023, which is less than the 13,493 who did in 2012. What's up with that? The number of bike lanes, protected and otherwise, has exploded and the numbers are down? It looks like biking to work peaked in 2017 and began declining even before the pandemic. Any good explanations of what's happening here?

https://data.bikeleague.org/data/cities-rates-of-active-commuting/

Any theories on why bike commuting is at an all time high in NYC? And in DC it's less than it was 10 years ago? What are we doing wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting the number of bike commuters was plummeting even before the pandemic.

It's interesting that you are completely and totally obsessed with proving that things that never happened actually happened. Please desist with your nonsense. It is tiresome.

Number of bike commuters in Washington DC:

2012 -- 13,493
2013 -- 14,986
2014 -- 13,330
2015 -- 14,718
2016 -- 16,647
2017 -- 18,624
2018 -- 16,175
2019 -- 15,528
2020 -- 16,012
2021 -- 7,504
2022 -- 11,309
2023 -- 13,276

I’ve been a bike commuter for many of these years and was never surveyed. How can it be that you know the numbers of bike commuters down to single digits without even contacting me?

The truth is that these numbers, used in this fashion, are highly misleading. You are prone to accusing others of lying, but either you are statistically illiterate or being deceptive. Which one is it?

Yeah and what's the deal with these presidential polls where they don't interview every single voter in America? So misleading.

Reporting extrapolations from a poll without reporting the associated margin of error is the height of statistical idiocy.

Uh, huh. I'm sorry all the numbers everywhere show hardly anyone bikes to work. Regardless of what survey you look at, we're talking about three percent or less of commuters bike.

Show me a margin of error for your estimates and then I’ll engage with you. As of now, all indications are that you are statistically illiterate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone tell the anti-car zealots at DDOT. They seem to think that if they make traffic terrible enough (ahem, "road diet"), that everyone will switch to bikes. The data make clear that's not happening.

DDOT officials get dressed down here by Black Washingtonians telling them they don't want their bike lanes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/11/15/bike-lanes-road-safety-south-dakota-avenue/

There's a grand total of three miles of bike lanes in Ward 8.

I know it may be difficult to tell from Ashburn, but South Dakota Ave. is in Ward 5 and nowhere near Ward 8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out these stats from the League of American Bicyclists. They say 13,276 Washingtonians commuted to work on bike in 2023, which is less than the 13,493 who did in 2012. What's up with that? The number of bike lanes, protected and otherwise, has exploded and the numbers are down? It looks like biking to work peaked in 2017 and began declining even before the pandemic. Any good explanations of what's happening here?

https://data.bikeleague.org/data/cities-rates-of-active-commuting/

Any theories on why bike commuting is at an all time high in NYC? And in DC it's less than it was 10 years ago? What are we doing wrong?

What DC is doing wrong - and this is the contrast with NYC - is not building out a proper bike lane network. Would anyone drive if roads were isolated sections of asphalt? Why do we expect people to adopt biking en masse when you are forced to merge with maniacs in death trucks every few hundred yards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out these stats from the League of American Bicyclists. They say 13,276 Washingtonians commuted to work on bike in 2023, which is less than the 13,493 who did in 2012. What's up with that? The number of bike lanes, protected and otherwise, has exploded and the numbers are down? It looks like biking to work peaked in 2017 and began declining even before the pandemic. Any good explanations of what's happening here?

https://data.bikeleague.org/data/cities-rates-of-active-commuting/

Any theories on why bike commuting is at an all time high in NYC? And in DC it's less than it was 10 years ago? What are we doing wrong?

because return to work is lower in DC. once again this is a meaningless number without a denominator.

cabi usage is a better indicator

and of course had the bikes = kitten-murder crowd not obstructed bike lanes in NW there would be a lot more commuting including by kids to JR and MacArthur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone tell the anti-car zealots at DDOT. They seem to think that if they make traffic terrible enough (ahem, "road diet"), that everyone will switch to bikes. The data make clear that's not happening.

DDOT officials get dressed down here by Black Washingtonians telling them they don't want their bike lanes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/11/15/bike-lanes-road-safety-south-dakota-avenue/

That article is very worth reading. But I also think it's more complicated than what you describe (though yes there is 100% the element of newer, richer, white residents advocating for bike lanes over the objections of longtime black residents, and the point the article makes about many of those residents having fought against things like destroying those neighborhoods to expand I95 is important context that the bike lanes advocates don't always understand).

But some other key takeaways:

-- The bike lanes on South Dakota appear to be less about serving actual demand for bike lanes and more about the fact that bike lanes are the cheapest traffic calming measure DDOT has at their disposal. The real issue in South Dakota appears to be speeding and pedestrian safety, but more expensive traffic calming measures (that have other benefits like making the neighborhood look and feel nicer to be in) aren't in the table. Things like widening sidewalks, installing permanent curb bumpouts at intersections to protect pedestrians, or installing raised medians. Those are expensive, a painted bike lane is cheap.

-- The residents opposing the bike lanes are NOT fans if the speeding and dangerous driving on SD avenue. They hate it. They just don't think bike lanes will solve it-- they think they will increase congestion which will lead to more dangerous driving, and push it into neighboring, residential streets. DDOT has proposed measures to address those concerns but like bike lanes, they are cheap and may not work-- bollards and other temporary installments that may have some impact on speeding and dangerous driving but won't stop it. The article also discussed speed cameras but notes that drivers know where they are and just slow down temporarily and then return to speeding, and that the city struggles to collect fines from out if state drivers.

-- A nearby bike lane proposal in Taylor Street is NOT facing this opposition and actually has the broad support of residents and businesses. That bike lane offers commuting potential for kids to a number if schools and will hook up with the MBT, which businesses think could be a boon for them. Taylor is also not a major through street and has less of a speeding issue than SD Ave. Which makes a bike lane there more appealing-- cyclists don't actually want to ride in painted bike lanes next to speeding traffic! It's dangerous.

So my takeaway is that a major problem with bike lanes in DC is that they are being used as a cheap traffic calming alternative in places where better traffic calming infrastructure is needed, but where there may be minimal demand for bike lanes specifically. If the city instead sought buy in for medians and wider sidewalks and safer pedestrian crossings, they'd face less opposition from residents (out of state drivers would still hate it, but if the goal is to make streets safer, that should not be the primary concern). Bike lanes make sense in places where people already WANT them and where it's already fairly safe to bike. Imposing them on major thoroughfares where there isn't demand in the hope it will slow down drivers and make the road more hospitable to pedestrians and bikes alike us putting the cart before the horse. No wonder you see a lot of arguments over bike lanes if this is their approach.

But if course DC needs money to create safe roads the right way. Different issue. But it dues not appear that painted bike lanes all over the city are the cheap solution they want them to be.

Great post, and this pretty well sums up where I am on this issue as well. The only thing really missing here (and elsewhere in this thread) is a push for traffic enforcement, which seems to have dropped completely off the city's radar the past decade or so. Doing any sort of infrastructure changes in the complete absence of any meaningful enforcement (traffic cameras don't count) is futile and just perpetuates the dangerous behavior of a small minority of drivers.

Why do residents of one stretch of road get to dictate how the entire road operates and also that their needs are paramount (ie that their parking is more important than any safety improvements)?

I don't think you should let one small group dictate how a road is used, but I do think that if a road currently has parking that is used by residents who live on the road, it is just bad policy making to take the parking away for a bike lane without even exploring other options. You are advocating for substituting one small group for another instead of working together to come up with something that works for everyone. That doesn't mean "no bike lanes" but it does mean you don't install bike lanes over local objections without weighing pros and cons and considering otehr options.

why should 20 people’s use of public space dictate what the entire corridor can be? sorry but no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out these stats from the League of American Bicyclists. They say 13,276 Washingtonians commuted to work on bike in 2023, which is less than the 13,493 who did in 2012. What's up with that? The number of bike lanes, protected and otherwise, has exploded and the numbers are down? It looks like biking to work peaked in 2017 and began declining even before the pandemic. Any good explanations of what's happening here?

https://data.bikeleague.org/data/cities-rates-of-active-commuting/

Any theories on why bike commuting is at an all time high in NYC? And in DC it's less than it was 10 years ago? What are we doing wrong?

What DC is doing wrong - and this is the contrast with NYC - is not building out a proper bike lane network. Would anyone drive if roads were isolated sections of asphalt? Why do we expect people to adopt biking en masse when you are forced to merge with maniacs in death trucks every few hundred yards.

and DC can’t do this because of the crazy nimbys. in any sane world there would for example be bike lanes around Lincoln Park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out these stats from the League of American Bicyclists. They say 13,276 Washingtonians commuted to work on bike in 2023, which is less than the 13,493 who did in 2012. What's up with that? The number of bike lanes, protected and otherwise, has exploded and the numbers are down? It looks like biking to work peaked in 2017 and began declining even before the pandemic. Any good explanations of what's happening here?

https://data.bikeleague.org/data/cities-rates-of-active-commuting/

Any theories on why bike commuting is at an all time high in NYC? And in DC it's less than it was 10 years ago? What are we doing wrong?

What DC is doing wrong - and this is the contrast with NYC - is not building out a proper bike lane network. Would anyone drive if roads were isolated sections of asphalt? Why do we expect people to adopt biking en masse when you are forced to merge with maniacs in death trucks every few hundred yards.

and DC can’t do this because of the crazy nimbys. in any sane world there would for example be bike lanes around Lincoln Park.

In a sane world we wouldn't be intentionally trying to increase congestion and we wouldn't have eliminated human traffic enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out these stats from the League of American Bicyclists. They say 13,276 Washingtonians commuted to work on bike in 2023, which is less than the 13,493 who did in 2012. What's up with that? The number of bike lanes, protected and otherwise, has exploded and the numbers are down? It looks like biking to work peaked in 2017 and began declining even before the pandemic. Any good explanations of what's happening here?

https://data.bikeleague.org/data/cities-rates-of-active-commuting/

Any theories on why bike commuting is at an all time high in NYC? And in DC it's less than it was 10 years ago? What are we doing wrong?

What DC is doing wrong - and this is the contrast with NYC - is not building out a proper bike lane network. Would anyone drive if roads were isolated sections of asphalt? Why do we expect people to adopt biking en masse when you are forced to merge with maniacs in death trucks every few hundred yards.

and DC can’t do this because of the crazy nimbys. in any sane world there would for example be bike lanes around Lincoln Park.

In a sane world we wouldn't be intentionally trying to increase congestion and we wouldn't have eliminated human traffic enforcement.

Absolutely.

[Anonymous]

Because people work from home so they don't need to bike there duh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because people work from home so they don't need to bike there duh

Excepting biking to work fell by 30 percent even before the pandemic, and the share of people driving to work now exceeds pre-pandemic levels.

Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out these stats from the League of American Bicyclists. They say 13,276 Washingtonians commuted to work on bike in 2023, which is less than the 13,493 who did in 2012. What's up with that? The number of bike lanes, protected and otherwise, has exploded and the numbers are down? It looks like biking to work peaked in 2017 and began declining even before the pandemic. Any good explanations of what's happening here?

https://data.bikeleague.org/data/cities-rates-of-active-commuting/

Any theories on why bike commuting is at an all time high in NYC? And in DC it's less than it was 10 years ago? What are we doing wrong?

because return to work is lower in DC. once again this is a meaningless number without a denominator.

cabi usage is a better indicator

and of course had the bikes = kitten-murder crowd not obstructed bike lanes in NW there would be a lot more commuting including by kids to JR and MacArthur.

Cabi numbers are meaningless. How do you know they aren't just stealing market share from other places that rent bikes? (I'd be pissed if I owned a bike rental shop and he city was subsidizing my competitor).