Favorite College that changes lives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is the poster child for what’s wrong with the CTCL list. It accepts virtually everyone who applies, a full one-third of its students are gone after freshman year, and only 1/3 of an entering class graduates in four years. Why on earth would that school be selected out of hundreds if not thousands of no name state colleges as being a college that “changes lives?” It’s just nuts, and it calls into question the entire list.

Every one of these schools needs to be judged on its own merits, and the list as a whole or as an aggregate needs to be thrown out the window.

Read the first chapter

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our oldest just started at Beloit this year. He really likes it. Small classes, engaged professors, more relaxed vibe. And I really can't complain that it costs the same as our average state school.

I thought Beloit looked really great, kind of a less obnoxious Reed or Bard, but I could not sell my kid on Wisconsin.

My sibling and I both went there; we're west coasters. It was a great experience for both of us. One thing that was important to both of us was study abroad opportunities -- we both spent one full year abroad with no issues.

For better or for worse, it doesn't have the most Wisconsin-y vibes... the closest meaningful airport is O'Hare and a pretty big chunk of people go there from Chicago and Chicagoland.

You can study abroad with “no issues” while attending virtually any college or university in this country. Beloit is by no means special when it comes to that.

Depends on when the poster graduated. I attended a school a bit ago where many, many kids went on study abroad, including athletes and STEM majors. The whole curriculum was set up to facilitate this. Some overseas centers were offered that were one of kind for any US college/university.

Lots of schools do this now but much less so then and at that scale.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our oldest just started at Beloit this year. He really likes it. Small classes, engaged professors, more relaxed vibe. And I really can't complain that it costs the same as our average state school.

I thought Beloit looked really great, kind of a less obnoxious Reed or Bard, but I could not sell my kid on Wisconsin.

My sibling and I both went there; we're west coasters. It was a great experience for both of us. One thing that was important to both of us was study abroad opportunities -- we both spent one full year abroad with no issues.

For better or for worse, it doesn't have the most Wisconsin-y vibes... the closest meaningful airport is O'Hare and a pretty big chunk of people go there from Chicago and Chicagoland.

You can study abroad with “no issues” while attending virtually any college or university in this country. Beloit is by no means special when it comes to that.

Depends on when the poster graduated. I attended a school a bit ago where many, many kids went on study abroad, including athletes and STEM majors. The whole curriculum was set up to facilitate this. Some overseas centers were offered that were one of kind for any US college/university.

Lots of schools do this now but much less so then and at that scale.

And to follow on 15:08’s comment, the CoA was also built in and all students on FA were able to participate, which was not automatic then. One of my siblings @ a T20 was not able to go through their school as FA was not allowed for study abroad @ that time.

[Anonymous]

Have a child that attended Eckerd, and whose second choice was Juniata. DC picked Eckerd because the student body was more geographically diverse and they liked the FL weather. Both Juniata and Eckerd gave comparable merit aid. Although DC picked Eckerd,we were both impressed by the significant personal attention that Juniata gave its applicants. In retrospect, I wish perhaps DC had picked Juniata. Eckerd had more entitled B student rich kids and there was a significant drug culture. I also think that when looking at small LAC it is important to figure out the social organizing piece. Schools need something---either a traditional greek system or "houses" like they have at Rice, or co-ops like at Oberlin--otherwise freshmen are cast adrift and have even more difficulty finding their people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have a child that attended Eckerd, and whose second choice was Juniata. DC picked Eckerd because the student body was more geographically diverse and they liked the FL weather. Both Juniata and Eckerd gave comparable merit aid. Although DC picked Eckerd,we were both impressed by the significant personal attention that Juniata gave its applicants. In retrospect, I wish perhaps DC had picked Juniata. Eckerd had more entitled B student rich kids and there was a significant drug culture. I also think that when looking at small LAC it is important to figure out the social organizing piece. Schools need something---either a traditional greek system or "houses" like they have at Rice, or co-ops like at Oberlin--otherwise freshmen are cast adrift and have even more difficulty finding their people.

I'd like to understand your last point a little better. Are you saying that Eckerd lacked some sort of social organizing structure, and that as a result your kid struggled to find their people? There's a lot my kid really likes about Eckerd, but finding her people is a top concern.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our oldest just started at Beloit this year. He really likes it. Small classes, engaged professors, more relaxed vibe. And I really can't complain that it costs the same as our average state school.

I thought Beloit looked really great, kind of a less obnoxious Reed or Bard, but I could not sell my kid on Wisconsin.

My sibling and I both went there; we're west coasters. It was a great experience for both of us. One thing that was important to both of us was study abroad opportunities -- we both spent one full year abroad with no issues.

For better or for worse, it doesn't have the most Wisconsin-y vibes... the closest meaningful airport is O'Hare and a pretty big chunk of people go there from Chicago and Chicagoland.

You can study abroad with “no issues” while attending virtually any college or university in this country. Beloit is by no means special when it comes to that.

Depends on when the poster graduated. I attended a school a bit ago where many, many kids went on study abroad, including athletes and STEM majors. The whole curriculum was set up to facilitate this. Some overseas centers were offered that were one of kind for any US college/university.

Lots of schools do this now but much less so then and at that scale.

I will concede that you have made a good point, but all that means is that the Beloit booster’s data is so old that it’s meaningless. And I guess I should add that I have no doubt that I studied abroad long before the Beloit poster, as did my Big Ten spouse, and neither one of us had any trouble.

The bottom line is study abroad is not a uniquely CTCL thing by any means.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our oldest just started at Beloit this year. He really likes it. Small classes, engaged professors, more relaxed vibe. And I really can't complain that it costs the same as our average state school.

I thought Beloit looked really great, kind of a less obnoxious Reed or Bard, but I could not sell my kid on Wisconsin.

My sibling and I both went there; we're west coasters. It was a great experience for both of us. One thing that was important to both of us was study abroad opportunities -- we both spent one full year abroad with no issues.

For better or for worse, it doesn't have the most Wisconsin-y vibes... the closest meaningful airport is O'Hare and a pretty big chunk of people go there from Chicago and Chicagoland.

You can study abroad with “no issues” while attending virtually any college or university in this country. Beloit is by no means special when it comes to that.

Depends on when the poster graduated. I attended a school a bit ago where many, many kids went on study abroad, including athletes and STEM majors. The whole curriculum was set up to facilitate this. Some overseas centers were offered that were one of kind for any US college/university.

Lots of schools do this now but much less so then and at that scale.

I will concede that you have made a good point, but all that means is that the Beloit booster’s data is so old that it’s meaningless. And I guess I should add that I have no doubt that I studied abroad long before the Beloit poster, as did my Big Ten spouse, and neither one of us had any trouble.

The bottom line is study abroad is not a uniquely CTCL thing by any means.

How are you so certain of that?

And no one in this thread, no one, has has said study abroad is uniquely CTCL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Have a child that attended Eckerd, and whose second choice was Juniata. DC picked Eckerd because the student body was more geographically diverse and they liked the FL weather. Both Juniata and Eckerd gave comparable merit aid. Although DC picked Eckerd,we were both impressed by the significant personal attention that Juniata gave its applicants. In retrospect, I wish perhaps DC had picked Juniata. Eckerd had more entitled B student rich kids and there was a significant drug culture. I also think that when looking at small LAC it is important to figure out the social organizing piece. Schools need something---either a traditional greek system or "houses" like they have at Rice, or co-ops like at Oberlin--otherwise freshmen are cast adrift and have even more difficulty finding their people.


I'd like to understand your last point a little better. Are you saying that Eckerd lacked some sort of social organizing structure, and that as a result your kid struggled to find their people? There's a lot my kid really likes about Eckerd, but finding her people is a top concern.

Eckerd did not have any social organizing structure. They do not have a Greek system or any eating house/eating club system. They do have some really strong extracurricular activities that do seem to serve that purpose if a student is interested in them (mine was not)---for example, they have a very sophisticated water rescue organization which serves as adjunct search & rescue for the Tampa Bay Area---it is competitive to join it and the kids in it seem very bonded. The arts community on campus also seemed tight knit. Our DC is not really a "joiner" so I think a lot of it was tied to DC's specific personality and not so much the school. Unfortunately, I also think that at Eckerd the kids who do not get engaged in more positive activities seem to be the ones who have lots of interest in the less positive drug culture and there is a lot of that. I would also add that the food is terrible. And because the campus is somewhat isolated, there is not a lot of off-campus options in the immediate vicinity. I don't mean to sound down on Eckerd---I think lots of kids do great there and I think our DC would have had some of the same responses no matter what school they went to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Evergreen State College is the poster child for what’s wrong with the CTCL list. It accepts virtually everyone who applies, a full one-third of its students are gone after freshman year, and only 1/3 of an entering class graduates in four years. Why on earth would that school be selected out of hundreds if not thousands of no name state colleges as being a college that “changes lives?” It’s just nuts, and it calls into question the entire list.

Every one of these schools needs to be judged on its own merits, and the list as a whole or as an aggregate needs to be thrown out the window.

Evergreen was a much stronger school when the book first came out. If you looked at the beginning of the thread, you might see that we kind of covered this topic: that some of the schools on the list are more or less attractive than they were. Someone also added a new list that includes schools that should probably considered by those of us considering ctcl

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My nephew attends College of Wooster and loves it. They have a cool thesis programs for
seniors.

This is one of ours. I honestly wasn't sure dc would get accepted, they're more selective than some others and I know they're popular. I have a friend who went there about fifteen years ago and loved it and has done quite well in a very tough and very popular field. Wooster's even moved to the top of my list, but they're farther away than I'd like and there are some closer options that also do capstone projects and offer many things that seem similar.

Wooster does seem like it's in good financial shape, and the merit was good.

My dd attended Wooster for 3 semesters and then transferred. Granted, she was there during the height of Covid so she did not have a traditional experience. But the reality for her was very different based upon what she expected from several visits.

Dorms: Research this. You can’t choose (understandable) as a freshman but some dorms are fairly new with A/C and some are literally falling apart. The dorm sophomore year was so bad that dh was worried about leaving her there. Read articles about the bats, etc. in the dorms.

Finances: Check our recent issues of the school newspaper (dd occasionally still reads it and mentioned it). They are making some changes to reduce expenses. I’m not saying they are close to closing but some of the changes may affect the school going forward.

The school has a new president since dd was there. The former president is now at Whitman…

I thought they had one of the healthier endowments. I could be wrong.

I know a lot of these kinds of schools are eliminating or consolidating some majors. That's one of my concerns. Don't want to sign up for one kind of experience and have it change. It looks like Allegheny did that recently, and I'm not sure what to think. In general, that's one that confuses me: there are some things I really really like (and I think Meadville sounds okay, I know it has its detractors), and some things I'm uncertain about (social stuff).

It's also a little bit of a relief to hear something negative about Wooster. When dcurbanmom gets too glowingly positive it makes me nervous. Not because I think the posts are fake, but because I' don't always share the same opinions about what is valued.

There are probably a lot of LAC admissions reps posting. They tend to be the most militant and most unaccepting of differing experiences, thoughts, and opinions.

College of Wooster gets a lot of positive reviews largely because it awards a lot of merit scholarships. This is a true positive.

Uh, maybe because Wooster is almost $75K a year so it HAS to discount the COA for some applicants? https://wooster.edu/admissions/afford/tuition-and-aid/

It's their (and other similar colleges) strategy--they give significant merit aid to highly qualified students to make it as affordable/more affordable than in-state public schools, they give some merit aid to good students to make it more affordable than other similarly priced SLACs and they enroll some full-pay--or v close to full-pay-- students with spottier applications than higher ranked SLACs. Financial aid is usually generous for qualified students who come from limited means. It's not a bad model, really as you get a fairly diverse student body in terms of SES and academic strength. The rich full-pay students usually don't drop out because they have the resources to keep going even if they aren't the strongest students and their career outcomes are likely to be fine because of family connections/support.
They are basically paying full fare to have stronger students around them. Everyone else is strong enough to do fine and has a better ROI because they are not paying the very high cost. "Donut hole" families often find these schools are the most affordable ones due to merit aid if their in-state options are not attractive. You don't get the 'bimodal' distribution of poor and rich kids that you get at the more higher ranked private schools.

Yeah, I kinda like this strategy. It's a tide that lifts all boats.

[Anonymous]

There is a poster on DCUM who absolutely loves to rag on the CTCL whenever it’s mentioned. He or she then goes on to reply to nearly everyone else, totally derailing the threads. The CTCL is a marketing tool, the schools are all on the brink of financial collapse, they’re nothing special, and they also accuse posters with anything positive to say about the school of being boosters or admissions officers. It’s tiring and entirely predictable, and lo, they have made it to this thread. As always

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a poster on DCUM who absolutely loves to rag on the CTCL whenever it’s mentioned. He or she then goes on to reply to nearly everyone else, totally derailing the threads. The CTCL is a marketing tool, the schools are all on the brink of financial collapse, they’re nothing special, and they also accuse posters with anything positive to say about the school of being boosters or admissions officers. It’s tiring and entirely predictable, and lo, they have made it to this thread. As always

There’s more than one of us who recognizes the CTCL charade

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our oldest just started at Beloit this year. He really likes it. Small classes, engaged professors, more relaxed vibe. And I really can't complain that it costs the same as our average state school.

I thought Beloit looked really great, kind of a less obnoxious Reed or Bard, but I could not sell my kid on Wisconsin.

My sibling and I both went there; we're west coasters. It was a great experience for both of us. One thing that was important to both of us was study abroad opportunities -- we both spent one full year abroad with no issues.

For better or for worse, it doesn't have the most Wisconsin-y vibes... the closest meaningful airport is O'Hare and a pretty big chunk of people go there from Chicago and Chicagoland.

You can study abroad with “no issues” while attending virtually any college or university in this country. Beloit is by no means special when it comes to that.

Depends on when the poster graduated. I attended a school a bit ago where many, many kids went on study abroad, including athletes and STEM majors. The whole curriculum was set up to facilitate this. Some overseas centers were offered that were one of kind for any US college/university.

Lots of schools do this now but much less so then and at that scale.

I will concede that you have made a good point, but all that means is that the Beloit booster’s data is so old that it’s meaningless. And I guess I should add that I have no doubt that I studied abroad long before the Beloit poster, as did my Big Ten spouse, and neither one of us had any trouble.

The bottom line is study abroad is not a uniquely CTCL thing by any means.

You’re talking yourself into circles, and also, as the Beloit ‘booster’ you cite, what the heck is your problem? A poster said something positive about the school. I concurred and shared a line about my experience. Now I’m a ‘booster,’ who needs to defend my comment about study abroad?

Whatever. There’s data on this topic. Somewhere between 3 and 6% of students study abroad; at Beloit it’s in the 30% range. Other colleges have more, others less, it’s possible many places but not all, IN MY EXPERIENCE it was a straightforward and easy process and I valued that. Do with that what you will.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our oldest just started at Beloit this year. He really likes it. Small classes, engaged professors, more relaxed vibe. And I really can't complain that it costs the same as our average state school.

I thought Beloit looked really great, kind of a less obnoxious Reed or Bard, but I could not sell my kid on Wisconsin.

My sibling and I both went there; we're west coasters. It was a great experience for both of us. One thing that was important to both of us was study abroad opportunities -- we both spent one full year abroad with no issues.

For better or for worse, it doesn't have the most Wisconsin-y vibes... the closest meaningful airport is O'Hare and a pretty big chunk of people go there from Chicago and Chicagoland.

You can study abroad with “no issues” while attending virtually any college or university in this country. Beloit is by no means special when it comes to that.

Depends on when the poster graduated. I attended a school a bit ago where many, many kids went on study abroad, including athletes and STEM majors. The whole curriculum was set up to facilitate this. Some overseas centers were offered that were one of kind for any US college/university.

Lots of schools do this now but much less so then and at that scale.

I will concede that you have made a good point, but all that means is that the Beloit booster’s data is so old that it’s meaningless. And I guess I should add that I have no doubt that I studied abroad long before the Beloit poster, as did my Big Ten spouse, and neither one of us had any trouble.

The bottom line is study abroad is not a uniquely CTCL thing by any means.

How are you so certain of that?

And no one in this thread, no one, has has said study abroad is uniquely CTCL.

I doubt she went to college in the 1980s. And, yes, she implied that study abroad was a distinguishing characteristic. She literally said that’s why she went to Beloit and that she couldn’t have done it going to a Big Ten school. And when I called her out on that - and I’m 100 percent right - she derisively called me “Jan” and I was labeled the bad guy. So typical of the CTCL crowd.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our oldest just started at Beloit this year. He really likes it. Small classes, engaged professors, more relaxed vibe. And I really can't complain that it costs the same as our average state school.

I thought Beloit looked really great, kind of a less obnoxious Reed or Bard, but I could not sell my kid on Wisconsin.

My sibling and I both went there; we're west coasters. It was a great experience for both of us. One thing that was important to both of us was study abroad opportunities -- we both spent one full year abroad with no issues.

For better or for worse, it doesn't have the most Wisconsin-y vibes... the closest meaningful airport is O'Hare and a pretty big chunk of people go there from Chicago and Chicagoland.

You can study abroad with “no issues” while attending virtually any college or university in this country. Beloit is by no means special when it comes to that.

Depends on when the poster graduated. I attended a school a bit ago where many, many kids went on study abroad, including athletes and STEM majors. The whole curriculum was set up to facilitate this. Some overseas centers were offered that were one of kind for any US college/university.

Lots of schools do this now but much less so then and at that scale.

I will concede that you have made a good point, but all that means is that the Beloit booster’s data is so old that it’s meaningless. And I guess I should add that I have no doubt that I studied abroad long before the Beloit poster, as did my Big Ten spouse, and neither one of us had any trouble.

The bottom line is study abroad is not a uniquely CTCL thing by any means.

You’re talking yourself into circles, and also, as the Beloit ‘booster’ you cite, what the heck is your problem? A poster said something positive about the school. I concurred and shared a line about my experience. Now I’m a ‘booster,’ who needs to defend my comment about study abroad?

Whatever. There’s data on this topic. Somewhere between 3 and 6% of students study abroad; at Beloit it’s in the 30% range. Other colleges have more, others less, it’s possible many places but not all, IN MY EXPERIENCE it was a straightforward and easy process and I valued that. Do with that what you will.

Your “data” proves nothing. Just because a higher percentage of students at certain schools study abroad doesn’t mean the other schools make it harder. Also, many schools in undesirable locations - such as Beloit - let it be known that study abroad is possible as a way of (not so) subtly suggesting “you don’t have to be stuck here all four years, you can break it up.”