Does everyone on here with kids applying to top 50 schools really have the $80K per year to spend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apart from a handful of outliers, the kids in those towns just aren't that smart.

I always assume that the DMV is full of transplants, like me. Who knows that are schools here are .. good, but not topping any list. Who know that the DMV is not really the intellectual capital of the world. Or money capital. Or cultural capital. NY beats us, SF beats us, LA beats us. Never mind all the international centers. We're a mid-table city in most regards, like Chicago. We have a lot more bureaucrats, but nobody thinks that's where the best and brightest generally land.

So it always strikes me when I hear things like this .. which must come from a person who has never lived outside the DMV. Sorry to break this news, but we're not that special.

DC trades in affluent well-adjusted knowledgeable teens. That’s what DC students are known for. And their families can pay full tuition bills! Very attractive to colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

This is so interesting. What do you think is going on?

Same. I actually think my senior DD would love the midwestern university in the town I grew up in. She has toured and does like it but is influenced by the culture here and thinks that because it has a high acceptance rate it isn’t as good as schools with a lower acceptance rate. She could just pick this school and enjoy her senior year and also enjoy her college experience.

She is correct in that her academic cohort at a lower ranked / acceptance rate college is definitely for the most part, going to be inferior, regardless of the standard of teaching / research at the college.

You are completely wrong about this. Most students attend the big school in their hometown or state no matter how smart they are. It is ridiculous to assume that the kids who chose their state college with a high acceptance rate are therefore all less intelligent than the handful of kids who got pulled from the lottery pool of applicants to a college with a tiny number of seats.

Having hired a lot of kids straight out of college, I can attest that this is true. Many students accepted to the Ivy League are average smart kids who are grinders and have good organizational skills. There’s this myth that they’re all brilliant, and it’s just not true. In fact, I’d say the resume that gets you into an Ivy these days is likely to screen out the brilliant kid who has a burning intellectual interest in one area, but really doesn’t care about making a 100% in an area they aren’t interested in. Ivy’s say they want “pointy” kids, but they really don’t. The only group it seems true of is MIT PhDs. Other than that, I know more truly brilliant people who went to lower ranked schools.

Pointy v. well rounded are not consistently defined - and also definitions of each vary per school, and different schools value different levels of each. To say one school prefers one or the other is to not know what really happens behind closed doors (admissions).

The proof is in the pudding.

Say wut?

Don’t look at what they say, look at who they accept.

That is exactly what I am saying - I know who is accepted.

NP here. Do you really know STEM-oriented kids with Bs in high school English who’ve been accepted to Ivies? Because that’s what the PP is talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apart from a handful of outliers, the kids in those towns just aren't that smart.

I always assume that the DMV is full of transplants, like me. Who knows that are schools here are .. good, but not topping any list. Who know that the DMV is not really the intellectual capital of the world. Or money capital. Or cultural capital. NY beats us, SF beats us, LA beats us. Never mind all the international centers. We're a mid-table city in most regards, like Chicago. We have a lot more bureaucrats, but nobody thinks that's where the best and brightest generally land.

So it always strikes me when I hear things like this .. which must come from a person who has never lived outside the DMV. Sorry to break this news, but we're not that special.

DC trades in affluent well-adjusted knowledgeable teens. That’s what DC students are known for. And their families can pay full tuition bills! Very attractive to colleges.

*i should have said DMV teens, my bad

[Anonymous]

“Apart from a handful of outliers, the kids in those towns just aren't that smart.“

After graduating with honors from a swanky New England college I started a grad program at the U of Iowa. I figured I would squash those hayseeds with my Eastern intellect. About 15 minutes into my first class I realized I was the least-prepared person in the room.

[Anonymous]

You had 18 years to save. Plus cash flow some now. What have you been doing all this time? You knew this expense was coming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re the Midwest PP. It sounds wonderful to grow up in the Midwest. Your friends are doing something right. This keeping up w the Jones’s is not good.

Agree.

No shame in the Midwest going to in-state flagships.

Plenty of $$ left for Fancy family vacations /summer houses etc….Family time together…

I sent a college kid raised in the DMV attending a pretty diverse college to a Midwest flagship for more than 2 months for a special summer program this year. They came home with a pretty negative impression— basically, it that was very, very white and very homogenous (and they desperately wanted good Indian, sushi and Raman)— and my kid is white. I grew up in the rural south. Which was “diverse” in that half the students at Mt HS were black. But, it was the 80s, so everyone “kept to their kind”.

My point is the grass is always greener and you have a very idealized view of life in the Midwest. I grew up in a town a lot like Friday Night Lights. Which Connie Britton and Coach Taylor make look pretty inviting. But is not somewhere I would raise my kids. Living in this area has drawbacks. Faster pace, high COL, traffic, competition. But there is also raising kid in a more global society, near museums and concert venues and the Kennedy Center, (good Indian food ). And our kids push harder because their peers push harder and because they see a bigger picture of what is possible. Their dreams may be bigger than marrying/becoming the small town pediatrician.

I think that easing kids CAN be a great thing. Especially if your kid doesn’t conform to the white upper middle class homecoming Court, sports ne cheerleading, clean cut stereotype. And it’s our job as parents to guide our kids towards careers that suit them and their talents and personalities, not just expecting them to be an engineer or lawyer or Wall Street hedge fund manager. And we decide that the car magnet and cocktail party college name drop do not matter. Finding a college that is a good academic, financial and social fit is what’s important. And if that means deciding that you will make peace with the a college ranked 120 and speak about your kids college with as much pride as the Ivy parents, that’s what you do. Anyone who snipes at you isn’t worth knowing anyway.

You kid learns by watching you. You live here and choose to raise them in a less competitive way, and place less emphasis on a prestige college. It is possible.

Just my 2 cents.

Why do people persist in thinking that (a) all small towns are alike, and (b) the small towns they left behind 30 years ago have not changed in the interim? We left DC for many of the reasons pp suggested, and live in a small (about 20,000 population) town in the South — not even a college town — that has Indian, multiple sushi, Lebanese, ramen, Vietnamese restaurants (just to name a few). Did it 30 years ago? Of course not. In fact, the high cost of living on the coasts has led many creative restauranteurs starting businesses in small towns across America.

Just as you can impart your values to your kids in a big city, you can instill bigger dreams in a kid raised in a small town. Our kids know about the successful careers we had in DC, and they have traveled & they’ve experienced a world that is much larger than the small town where they spent the final years of their childhood. Our youngest wanted to go to a big city for college, and did so, but now they’ve been away, they have told me how much living in the city makes them appreciate the “vibe” (their word) of the small town we live in. Will they move back? Probably not, but they won’t spend their lives with parochial views about what people who don’t live in urban areas are like.

It drives me nuts when DC people pretend to be open minded, but then act like poverty and lack of ambition is somehow infectious. Our town is less racially diverse than DC, but it is much more diverse economically. In DC, my kid went to school with rich kids of many different ethnicities, which is hardly “diversity.” Living here has made my kid much more mature, empathetic and grateful. Could I have instiilled those values in DC? Maybe. But there is nothing like experiencing something yourself.

Racial diversity is very important to many people, especially non-white people. Just because YOU don't value it doesn't mean others do not. Ask a Hispanic kid (poor or wealthy) if he rather be somewhere where there are Hispanics or a bunch of white people of different socio economic degrees and see what he says. Or a black kid. I can tell you it won't be all the varying white people.

Apparently those Hispanic parents had no qualms about moving to a country that was overwhelmingly white. And many, many Hispanics live in rural areas of the US now.

omg.. you did not just say that. Did you know that the southwest once belonged to Mexico, and there are generations of Hispanics living in the US. Some of their families have been in the US much longer than many white people's families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You had 18 years to save. Plus cash flow some now. What have you been doing all this time? You knew this expense was coming.

+1

This is what I do not comprehend. Does anyone with a brain really think that education is free in the U.S.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

This is so interesting. What do you think is going on?

Same. I actually think my senior DD would love the midwestern university in the town I grew up in. She has toured and does like it but is influenced by the culture here and thinks that because it has a high acceptance rate it isn’t as good as schools with a lower acceptance rate. She could just pick this school and enjoy her senior year and also enjoy her college experience.

She is correct in that her academic cohort at a lower ranked / acceptance rate college is definitely for the most part, going to be inferior, regardless of the standard of teaching / research at the college.

You are completely wrong about this. Most students attend the big school in their hometown or state no matter how smart they are. It is ridiculous to assume that the kids who chose their state college with a high acceptance rate are therefore all less intelligent than the handful of kids who got pulled from the lottery pool of applicants to a college with a tiny number of seats.

Having hired a lot of kids straight out of college, I can attest that this is true. Many students accepted to the Ivy League are average smart kids who are grinders and have good organizational skills. There’s this myth that they’re all brilliant, and it’s just not true. In fact, I’d say the resume that gets you into an Ivy these days is likely to screen out the brilliant kid who has a burning intellectual interest in one area, but really doesn’t care about making a 100% in an area they aren’t interested in. Ivy’s say they want “pointy” kids, but they really don’t. The only group it seems true of is MIT PhDs. Other than that, I know more truly brilliant people who went to lower ranked schools.

Pointy v. well rounded are not consistently defined - and also definitions of each vary per school, and different schools value different levels of each. To say one school prefers one or the other is to not know what really happens behind closed doors (admissions).

The proof is in the pudding.

Say wut?

Don’t look at what they say, look at who they accept.

That is exactly what I am saying - I know who is accepted.

NP here. Do you really know STEM-oriented kids with Bs in high school English who’ve been accepted to Ivies? Because that’s what the PP is talking about.

Not every kid is the same, surely OP must know that. There are so many contingencies about colleges admissions these days that no one person can possibly list all of them. I think so many posters are just looking for definitive information which does not exist. The admission person would literally have to have that applicants file in front of them to answer any kinds of odds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apart from a handful of outliers, the kids in those towns just aren't that smart.

I always assume that the DMV is full of transplants, like me. Who knows that are schools here are .. good, but not topping any list. Who know that the DMV is not really the intellectual capital of the world. Or money capital. Or cultural capital. NY beats us, SF beats us, LA beats us. Never mind all the international centers. We're a mid-table city in most regards, like Chicago. We have a lot more bureaucrats, but nobody thinks that's where the best and brightest generally land.

So it always strikes me when I hear things like this .. which must come from a person who has never lived outside the DMV. Sorry to break this news, but we're not that special.

Well your radar is off today. I live in Los Angeles and was raised in London and NYC. My time in the DMV has been fleeting and I'm glad to see the back of it. Mainly due to the residents like you, who make such inane assumptions.

so a lot of experience in those towns where the kids just aren't that smart, huh.

Sure, whatever floats your boat lady.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

This is so interesting. What do you think is going on?

Same. I actually think my senior DD would love the midwestern university in the town I grew up in. She has toured and does like it but is influenced by the culture here and thinks that because it has a high acceptance rate it isn’t as good as schools with a lower acceptance rate. She could just pick this school and enjoy her senior year and also enjoy her college experience.

She is correct in that her academic cohort at a lower ranked / acceptance rate college is definitely for the most part, going to be inferior, regardless of the standard of teaching / research at the college.

You are completely wrong about this. Most students attend the big school in their hometown or state no matter how smart they are. It is ridiculous to assume that the kids who chose their state college with a high acceptance rate are therefore all less intelligent than the handful of kids who got pulled from the lottery pool of applicants to a college with a tiny number of seats.

Having hired a lot of kids straight out of college, I can attest that this is true. Many students accepted to the Ivy League are average smart kids who are grinders and have good organizational skills. There’s this myth that they’re all brilliant, and it’s just not true. In fact, I’d say the resume that gets you into an Ivy these days is likely to screen out the brilliant kid who has a burning intellectual interest in one area, but really doesn’t care about making a 100% in an area they aren’t interested in. Ivy’s say they want “pointy” kids, but they really don’t. The only group it seems true of is MIT PhDs. Other than that, I know more truly brilliant people who went to lower ranked schools.

Pointy v. well rounded are not consistently defined - and also definitions of each vary per school, and different schools value different levels of each. To say one school prefers one or the other is to not know what really happens behind closed doors (admissions).

The proof is in the pudding.

Say wut?

Don’t look at what they say, look at who they accept.

That is exactly what I am saying - I know who is accepted.

NP here. Do you really know STEM-oriented kids with Bs in high school English who’ve been accepted to Ivies? Because that’s what the PP is talking about.

Not every kid is the same, surely OP must know that. There are so many contingencies about colleges admissions these days that no one person can possibly list all of them. I think so many posters are just looking for definitive information which does not exist. The admission person would literally have to have that applicants file in front of them to answer any kinds of odds.

If that’s true, surely it confirms the point that there are a lot of super smart kids who are not going to Ivies these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Apart from a handful of outliers, the kids in those towns just aren't that smart.

I always assume that the DMV is full of transplants, like me. Who knows that are schools here are .. good, but not topping any list. Who know that the DMV is not really the intellectual capital of the world. Or money capital. Or cultural capital. NY beats us, SF beats us, LA beats us. Never mind all the international centers. We're a mid-table city in most regards, like Chicago. We have a lot more bureaucrats, but nobody thinks that's where the best and brightest generally land.

So it always strikes me when I hear things like this .. which must come from a person who has never lived outside the DMV. Sorry to break this news, but we're not that special.

DC trades in affluent well-adjusted knowledgeable teens. That’s what DC students are known for. And their families can pay full tuition bills! Very attractive to colleges.

Yep, just like UMC suburban chicago kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Apart from a handful of outliers, the kids in those towns just aren't that smart.“

After graduating with honors from a swanky New England college I started a grad program at the U of Iowa. I figured I would squash those hayseeds with my Eastern intellect. About 15 minutes into my first class I realized I was the least-prepared person in the room.

What program? I know a number of people that went to Iowa for their creative writing masters, but many were from Top 10 undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You had 18 years to save. Plus cash flow some now. What have you been doing all this time? You knew this expense was coming.

+1

This is what I do not comprehend. Does anyone with a brain really think that education is free in the U.S.?

I think for a lot of people in this discussion, they have the money, but they're sure about the value of spending 350-400k for a Bachelors. If you have many million, sure. But otherwise, is there a 50k option (state, OOS, merit at top 100 school, UK, etc) that saves 200k worth of gun powder for a down payment or grad school degree.

This is a well educated group who opened 529s 18 years ago. But at some point, the highest priced option isn't worth it. For a lot of people, when college started running 80-90 a year, the tipping point was reached.

[Anonymous]

Yes, some of us are really paying it. We started saving when the kids were young. By the time the kids were 14 we had enough in each 529 to fully fund $70-80K for four years.

However, if you haven't saved enough and cannot easily cash flow, no it is NOT worth it to go into major debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You had 18 years to save. Plus cash flow some now. What have you been doing all this time? You knew this expense was coming.

+1

This is what I do not comprehend. Does anyone with a brain really think that education is free in the U.S.?

I think for a lot of people in this discussion, they have the money, but they're sure about the value of spending 350-400k for a Bachelors. If you have many million, sure. But otherwise, is there a 50k option (state, OOS, merit at top 100 school, UK, etc) that saves 200k worth of gun powder for a down payment or grad school degree.

This is a well educated group who opened 529s 18 years ago. But at some point, the highest priced option isn't worth it. For a lot of people, when college started running 80-90 a year, the tipping point was reached.

This. I don’t think gas is free but I also don’t drive around in a Hummer. People who think the goal is to spend the most money possible without regard to value have lost the thread.