Bike lanes violate disability access laws, new lawsuit says

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With any luck, the lawsuit will be upheld and the city will be forced to remedy the situation by raising the bike lanes to the same level as the sidewalk (as on Virginia Ave SE and The Wharf). This will have the added benefit of preventing cars and other motorized vehicles from parking or driving in them.

How will that solve the problem?

It would solve the problem of cars parking and driving in bike lanes very much. It would also provide parked / stopped vehicles with direct access to the curb. Set the bike lane back a few feet from the curb and add a sidewalk across the lane and it's as good as gold. Some other ideas here: https://www.ourstreetsmpls.org/ada_compliant_protected_bike_lanes. I'm not here to be an apologist for DDOT, who mess many things up, but the notion that bike lanes are generally incompatible with the ADA is just silly.

Are disabled people suing because cars are parked in “protected bike lanes”? It’s honestly pretty disturbing that you can be so self centered as to think that the “solution” is to improve your experience using bike lanes. Do you bother to listen to yourself?

Furthermore, the Plaintiffs are clear and say repeatedly that they DO NOT believe that bike lanes are incompatible with the needs of the disabled.

Leave it to cyclists to make everything about them. That’s sort of the problem and why this lawsuit happened in the first place.

No, the lawsuit happened because the District failed to design the bike lanes in an appropriate manner. It is absolutely possible to put in bike lanes that are compatible with the needs of people with disabilities. The city just screwed it up here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With any luck, the lawsuit will be upheld and the city will be forced to remedy the situation by raising the bike lanes to the same level as the sidewalk (as on Virginia Ave SE and The Wharf). This will have the added benefit of preventing cars and other motorized vehicles from parking or driving in them.

How will that solve the problem?

It would solve the problem of cars parking and driving in bike lanes very much. It would also provide parked / stopped vehicles with direct access to the curb. Set the bike lane back a few feet from the curb and add a sidewalk across the lane and it's as good as gold. Some other ideas here: https://www.ourstreetsmpls.org/ada_compliant_protected_bike_lanes. I'm not here to be an apologist for DDOT, who mess many things up, but the notion that bike lanes are generally incompatible with the ADA is just silly.

Are disabled people suing because cars are parked in “protected bike lanes”? It’s honestly pretty disturbing that you can be so self centered as to think that the “solution” is to improve your experience using bike lanes. Do you bother to listen to yourself?

Furthermore, the Plaintiffs are clear and say repeatedly that they DO NOT believe that bike lanes are incompatible with the needs of the disabled.

Leave it to cyclists to make everything about them. That’s sort of the problem and why this lawsuit happened in the first place.

No, the lawsuit happened because the District failed to design the bike lanes in an appropriate manner. It is absolutely possible to put in bike lanes that are compatible with the needs of people with disabilities. The city just screwed it up here.

Breaking the law by not accommodating people with disabilities in the design of the bike lanes was not an accident. It was intentional. It was a choice. And that’s why the lawsuit happened. The guy that directs the bike lane program should probably lose his job.

“Simms says disability advocates have brought these concerns to the mayor’s office and the D.C. Department of Transportation before. “It’s been crickets so far,” he says.”
https://dcist.com/story/22/11/23/disability-groups-file-federal-lawsuit-against-d-c-over-protected-bike-lanes/

[Anonymous]

This is an astroturf lawsuit that has little merit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an astroturf lawsuit that has little merit

The DC Center for Independent Living is a Plaintiff. Good to know that the cycling community thinks they are an “astroturf” group.
https://dccil.org/

I encourage you to keep disrespecting people with disabilities. It really helps your cause.

In any case, it really doesn’t matter if the Plaintiffs are the worst people in the world. DC is in violation of Federal law and the conclusion of this will require them to make reasonable accommodation for people with disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With any luck, the lawsuit will be upheld and the city will be forced to remedy the situation by raising the bike lanes to the same level as the sidewalk (as on Virginia Ave SE and The Wharf). This will have the added benefit of preventing cars and other motorized vehicles from parking or driving in them.

How will that solve the problem?

It would solve the problem of cars parking and driving in bike lanes very much. It would also provide parked / stopped vehicles with direct access to the curb. Set the bike lane back a few feet from the curb and add a sidewalk across the lane and it's as good as gold. Some other ideas here: https://www.ourstreetsmpls.org/ada_compliant_protected_bike_lanes. I'm not here to be an apologist for DDOT, who mess many things up, but the notion that bike lanes are generally incompatible with the ADA is just silly.

Are disabled people suing because cars are parked in “protected bike lanes”? It’s honestly pretty disturbing that you can be so self centered as to think that the “solution” is to improve your experience using bike lanes. Do you bother to listen to yourself?

Furthermore, the Plaintiffs are clear and say repeatedly that they DO NOT believe that bike lanes are incompatible with the needs of the disabled.

Maybe I'm being a little Panglossian, but I'd like to think that disability advocates would be interested in making the lanes as safe as possible for users - which include those confined to wheelchairs - so as to minimize the probability of those who use them being injured or worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With any luck, the lawsuit will be upheld and the city will be forced to remedy the situation by raising the bike lanes to the same level as the sidewalk (as on Virginia Ave SE and The Wharf). This will have the added benefit of preventing cars and other motorized vehicles from parking or driving in them.

How will that solve the problem?

It would solve the problem of cars parking and driving in bike lanes very much. It would also provide parked / stopped vehicles with direct access to the curb. Set the bike lane back a few feet from the curb and add a sidewalk across the lane and it's as good as gold. Some other ideas here: https://www.ourstreetsmpls.org/ada_compliant_protected_bike_lanes. I'm not here to be an apologist for DDOT, who mess many things up, but the notion that bike lanes are generally incompatible with the ADA is just silly.

Are disabled people suing because cars are parked in “protected bike lanes”? It’s honestly pretty disturbing that you can be so self centered as to think that the “solution” is to improve your experience using bike lanes. Do you bother to listen to yourself?

Furthermore, the Plaintiffs are clear and say repeatedly that they DO NOT believe that bike lanes are incompatible with the needs of the disabled.

Maybe I'm being a little Panglossian, but I'd like to think that disability advocates would be interested in making the lanes as safe as possible for users - which include those confined to wheelchairs - so as to minimize the probability of those who use them being injured or worse.

No one is confined to a wheelchair. The fact that you use such an ableist term shows that you don't know anything about what people who use wheelchairs need.

People who are using wheelchairs are pedestrians. They don't belong in bike lanes. They are not safe there. They belong on the sidewalk. A solution that prevents motor vehicles from being in bike lanes might be needed to protect cyclists, but this is a suit that addresses the need to protect people with disabilities that impact mobility.

Yes, it's possible to design a raised bike lane that also protects people in wheelchairs, but raising the bike lane doesn't make wheelchair users safe. In fact, it makes them less safe, because as I posted above, sometimes a vehicle has to move into a poorly designed bike lane to allow someone with a disability to access the sidewalk, and raising the bike lane prevents that. It basically transfers the danger from the person who needs their wheelchair to the person whose hobby is biking.

And no, it's not "Panglossian" to say that we should care about your issue instead of ours.

[Anonymous]

^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

No one is saying that they don't want bike lanes. The law suits and the disability advocates on this thread are saying that they want DC to follow some of the existing models that allow for people with disabilities to safely move from a motor vehicle lane, to a sidewalk without having to sit or put their ramp down or walk or ride in a traffic lane, whether that's a bike lane or a driving lane.

Taking that valid concern and instead of saying "OMG we missed that design flaw, we'll advocate for it to be changed too!" saying what you just wrote is a sign you aren't listening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

And this is why there is a lawsuit, because bike people - which includes the person who runs DDOT’s bike lane program - consider everything in zero sum terms. All disability advocates are asking for is the city to follow the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

Now do the urban density of the four countries where bikers are more likely to be killed.

US people per sq mile - 742.
Japan has 881, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.21.
UK has 723, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.81.

Anything else I can do for you? Or could you perhaps learn how to google a question before you form your misguided opinions and decide to vomit them on msg boards?

Google is so effective for those who have no critical thinking skills or understanding of statistics. But good for know about msg and vomit!

The number of bicyclists killed this year in D.C. is approximately the same as the number of people killed by lightning which is roughly the same as the number of Washingtonians who were eaten this year by sharks.

Bike lanes (and the other infrastructure changes that typically accompany them) reduce traffic violence for all road users. Not just cyclists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

No one is saying that they don't want bike lanes. The law suits and the disability advocates on this thread are saying that they want DC to follow some of the existing models that allow for people with disabilities to safely move from a motor vehicle lane, to a sidewalk without having to sit or put their ramp down or walk or ride in a traffic lane, whether that's a bike lane or a driving lane.

Taking that valid concern and instead of saying "OMG we missed that design flaw, we'll advocate for it to be changed too!" saying what you just wrote is a sign you aren't listening.

DC's bike lanes follow national standards. If there is an ADA issue with them, then it needs to be reflected in USDOT guidelines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

And this is why there is a lawsuit, because bike people - which includes the person who runs DDOT’s bike lane program - consider everything in zero sum terms. All disability advocates are asking for is the city to follow the law.

another reminder that DDOT has ADA requirements in its bike lane design manual, which it follows.

and another question about whether you’d be willing to give up 4 parking spots per block for disabled drop off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

No one is saying that they don't want bike lanes. The law suits and the disability advocates on this thread are saying that they want DC to follow some of the existing models that allow for people with disabilities to safely move from a motor vehicle lane, to a sidewalk without having to sit or put their ramp down or walk or ride in a traffic lane, whether that's a bike lane or a driving lane.

Taking that valid concern and instead of saying "OMG we missed that design flaw, we'll advocate for it to be changed too!" saying what you just wrote is a sign you aren't listening.

NDD, and Lance, and Ed Hanlon, who are all involved in this are saying exactly that repeatedly and whenever they get the change ("they don't want bike lanes"). Lance and Ed have mentioned "biking is a choice" and if bike safety is a concern "then don't bike, simple". So yes, this is a sham.

Make all parking on the avenues for groups that need it, only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

No one is saying that they don't want bike lanes. The law suits and the disability advocates on this thread are saying that they want DC to follow some of the existing models that allow for people with disabilities to safely move from a motor vehicle lane, to a sidewalk without having to sit or put their ramp down or walk or ride in a traffic lane, whether that's a bike lane or a driving lane.

Taking that valid concern and instead of saying "OMG we missed that design flaw, we'll advocate for it to be changed too!" saying what you just wrote is a sign you aren't listening.

The bike lane that is the subject of the lawsuit does not provide reasonable accommodation for the disabled, or else there would not be a lawsuit. I don’t think you understand the difference between having standards and how those standards are implemented.

DC's bike lanes follow national standards. If there is an ADA issue with them, then it needs to be reflected in USDOT guidelines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^

If people using wheelchairs are pedestrians and you don't want bikes on sidewalks and you don't want bikes on streets, then what you are really saying is, there is no room in our public space for bikes.

We get it.

No one is saying that they don't want bike lanes. The law suits and the disability advocates on this thread are saying that they want DC to follow some of the existing models that allow for people with disabilities to safely move from a motor vehicle lane, to a sidewalk without having to sit or put their ramp down or walk or ride in a traffic lane, whether that's a bike lane or a driving lane.

Taking that valid concern and instead of saying "OMG we missed that design flaw, we'll advocate for it to be changed too!" saying what you just wrote is a sign you aren't listening.

NDD, and Lance, and Ed Hanlon, who are all involved in this are saying exactly that repeatedly and whenever they get the change ("they don't want bike lanes"). Lance and Ed have mentioned "biking is a choice" and if bike safety is a concern "then don't bike, simple". So yes, this is a sham.

Make all parking on the avenues for groups that need it, only.

And what does the DCCIL, who are actual Plaintiffs in the lawsuit, say?