WTU rallies for new contract

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And to comment on IMPACT please note that Jason Kamras, one of the people in central office who helped create and defend impact, has not used the system in his current role as superintendent in Richmond and no longer endorses the method of evaluation as being effective. I think that says something about how useful IMPACT is.

It's because he is in a political role now

When impact was instituted, there was a lot of dead weight in the teacher ranks. Think the marion barry jobs program

Most private sectors employers have some kind of evaluation process

It's interesting reading these comments, unions are designed to protect the rank and file average folks where pay is based on seniority instead of talent. If you are a top performer there is 0 reason to support the union.

PP and I should clarify I’m not against evaluating teachers. I actually think the master educator program was a good idea because it helps with bias by administration. I just think evaluating all teachers across the district by the same rubric is unfair- and I say this as someone from a well resourced, ‘highly regarded’ school. It’s easier to get effective or highly effective at my school than many others just by virtue of the student population we teach.

I think once you’re past year 2-3 as a teacher, it’s easy as hell to get HE on your evaluations and CSC. There’s enough components of the rubric that you can set up ahead of time that have nothing to do with classroom behavior. I now coach teachers and one of my focuses on teaching them how to “gamify” evaluations. Tas is a joke bc you have so many variations of how it’s administered. SSP and IVA are inexcusably bad.

Hi! Please share where you teach because I would love to work there. Posts like this show just how inequitable the system is. My principal does not give HE. This is a known fact at my school and people leave because of it. My colleague was barely effective at my school, moved to a neighboring school (same population and content area) and got HE with ease.

What school are you at? Seems like there’s no risk to share since you already can’t get HE

NP but I know something similar to this happens at Banneker- impact scores are manipulated to ensure very very few people get HE.

I hear that - I guess I just don’t really understand how a principal manipulate it without teachers figuring out how to gamify it the other way. I worked at a school for over 5 years with a principal that HATED me, like to the point where other’s on the staff wanted me to file grievances. I still got over 3.5 on every eval and 4.0 on every CSC (except for one year when they deleted something from my reflection and gave me a 3.8, but I did win that grievance).

I think impact is dumb, but it’s also just a game. It’s not going anywhere so we might as well find a way to beat it

From what I’ve heard it’s more like the principal manipulates it through observation scores.

Exactly this. For example, to get a 4 (highest score) on one of the observation components, 100% of students need to be fully engaged in the lesson.
Now of course this is easier if your class/group is smaller or if you teach PE for example. But a principal could say, “3 kids were off task, I saw them looking out the window etc”. and as a teacher, how exactly do you fight what they say they saw? You can’t!

Little things like this make it impossible to “game” anything if your admin is petty or out to get you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are absolutely evil to be threatening to strike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All teacher's unions have enormous power now with teachers quitting, retiring, etc. I suspect a deal will get done fairly quickly. One side has all the leverage and it's not even close.

Then why no contract after over 3 years? If they have ‘enormous’ power.

Please, I encourage you to stop spreading misinformation. It only hurts us and ultimately the kids pay the price as they have been. And yes, covid was a part of that and the learning loss. I volunteered to go back in Jan 2021 but even still I understand the hurt parents feel for their babies’ loss.

But we can only move forward and we (teachers) need a better evaluation system, title 1 schools especially need more resources, we need to figure out how we can stop chronic absences and tardies, and yes teachers do need a raise. I know we are paid ‘well’ but I want to continue living in DC, I support better wages for literally almost everyone.

Seriously, dial down the absurd melodrama. It’s so cringeworthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are absolutely evil to be threatening to strike.

Could you provide some examples of other ways you would like them to advocate for a new contract?

Pretty much any way except that? But sure, you can keep on asserting that teacher’s unions can do whatever they want to advance their interests, and that the interests of children are irrelevant to the union. And if you say that, I will assert that the union is evil because they are using their power to hurt children. Even the threat of hurting children is unconscionable. The sad part is, most DC parents would actually support teachers getting a good contract - but when you make clear you don’t GAF about hurting kids, you lose your natural allies.

Would you mind building on your first sentence? What are some other ways?

I don’t really care. If WTU believes its only tactic is to threaten school closure on the heels of the disastrous covid closure, then WTU is a broken, amoral organization and should be dealt with accordingly.

No, no, no. If you demand they not use the means they have at their disposal, then let’s hear your Plan B. No more deflection.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are absolutely evil to be threatening to strike.

Could you provide some examples of other ways you would like them to advocate for a new contract?

Pretty much any way except that? But sure, you can keep on asserting that teacher’s unions can do whatever they want to advance their interests, and that the interests of children are irrelevant to the union. And if you say that, I will assert that the union is evil because they are using their power to hurt children. Even the threat of hurting children is unconscionable. The sad part is, most DC parents would actually support teachers getting a good contract - but when you make clear you don’t GAF about hurting kids, you lose your natural allies.

Ok, can you elaborate? If your employer is unwilling to negotiate in good faith and just wants to give you a little money instead of better working conditions what would you do? The option is wait until Bowser is no longer mayor?
I’m seriously asking.

Your premise that Bowser is refusing to negotiate in good faith is totally unsupported and incorrect afaik. In my job I don’t have the right to strike so I don’t think teachers should either.

We don’t just want MONEY! So you’re saying you want us all to quit instead? Because isn’t that what you’d do if your employer was corrupt? Great plan.

Yes, I think you should quit or be fired if you strike. That may result in some short-term disruptions but unlike an unpunished strike or covid closures, it would produce long-term gains.

HAHAHAHA. You know no one is coming to replace them, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP.

So far we had one poster who says there are many things we could do besides strike, but then when pressed on other options, claimed that “they don’t really care”

We’ve had others who think we should do work to rule type strategies, which doesn’t really work bc the management we are in negotiations with is not the admin that directly evaluate and manage us.

So, I’m still feeling at an impasse

OP if you’re truly at an impasse I can’t help you. I am saying a strike is an unconscionable harm to kids. You are saying that doesn’t matter to you, and PARENTS should come up with another tactic. You frankly sound like a disengenuous troll or an idiot. It’s not my job to tell you how to negotiate your contract. It’s my job to protect my kid, and as long as you and your union are happy to threaten my kid, I will do everything in my power to oppose you.

And you have no power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are absolutely evil to be threatening to strike.

Could you provide some examples of other ways you would like them to advocate for a new contract?

Pretty much any way except that? But sure, you can keep on asserting that teacher’s unions can do whatever they want to advance their interests, and that the interests of children are irrelevant to the union. And if you say that, I will assert that the union is evil because they are using their power to hurt children. Even the threat of hurting children is unconscionable. The sad part is, most DC parents would actually support teachers getting a good contract - but when you make clear you don’t GAF about hurting kids, you lose your natural allies.

Ok, can you elaborate? If your employer is unwilling to negotiate in good faith and just wants to give you a little money instead of better working conditions what would you do? The option is wait until Bowser is no longer mayor?
I’m seriously asking.

Your premise that Bowser is refusing to negotiate in good faith is totally unsupported and incorrect afaik. In my job I don’t have the right to strike so I don’t think teachers should either.

We don’t just want MONEY! So you’re saying you want us all to quit instead? Because isn’t that what you’d do if your employer was corrupt? Great plan.

Real talk here. You're a teacher, presumably on this board to rally support. I don't think this argument is going the way you want it to. It is making the parents worried and mad. That can't possibly be how you want them to feel.

And you’re making me ‘mad’ with your lackluster and unrealistic suggestions. Why do only your feelings matter? I am a parent too. I’d rather not strike, obviously that is the last thing I want to do.

But how can you tell a teacher to willfully stop doing things beyond their duty when that will also hurt students? Anything we do can hurt them, I feel as though we cannot win.

You are all cowards, then, more willing to hurt children than you are to actually face admin. You think you're SAFER completely abandoning children and striking than continuing to teach and putting pressure on your administration through other methods because you're more worried about your individual IMPACT scores than solidarity. If this is really what you believe, then you deserve to lose.

BOOM

Oh, no. How embarrassing for you. Are you 12?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would never allow my children to attend school in a district if I hated and disparaged the teachers every chance I get. What a strange group of posters here.

Seriously. If teachers are so horrible, hateful, selfish, lazy, etc, etc as these parents paint them to be, sending their kids into their care five days a week is parental neglect and child abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are absolutely evil to be threatening to strike.

Could you provide some examples of other ways you would like them to advocate for a new contract?

Pretty much any way except that? But sure, you can keep on asserting that teacher’s unions can do whatever they want to advance their interests, and that the interests of children are irrelevant to the union. And if you say that, I will assert that the union is evil because they are using their power to hurt children. Even the threat of hurting children is unconscionable. The sad part is, most DC parents would actually support teachers getting a good contract - but when you make clear you don’t GAF about hurting kids, you lose your natural allies.

Would you mind building on your first sentence? What are some other ways?

NP but teachers could work to the contract:
Only at school during contracted hours (no after school extra help, club meetings, etc.)
Only cover classes under the contractual way (I don’t remember what it is but there’s something where you don’t have to give up your planning every day for class coverage)
Don’t write any college recommendation or scholarship recommendation letters because it’s not in the contract (HS mostly, and this one most teachers won’t actually do but it’s effective)

Guess what? Teachers aren’t going to strike. You know it, and so do we. Also, your ideas are great. If I did any of them my Impact rating would be abysmally low. That’s right, part of our evaluation is based on what we do outside of our contracted requirements. How fair is that?

Seems pretty sensible to me. I am a public servant, and we all understand that our contract is the bare minimum. If we work to that standard, we meet expectations. If we do more, that is how we achieve exceeds expectations or outstanding.

Working to the contract DOES NOT MEET EXPECTATIONS. I thought that was clear.

+1

No, I asked if you are fired. I know that was clear.

Can a parent please share their perspective because I’m legit curious which you’d prefer:

Option A: your emails are not replied too, your kid comes home every day complaining that they learned nothing, kid states that their class had 50+ kids bc a teacher was out and there was no coverage, there’s no time to ever have a “quick” five minute chat at dismissal.

OR

Option B; for 2-3 days, your kid has to stay home

Pretty sure working to rule would still require you to actually teach, so I don't see how the kid would "learn nothing." The thing about a teacher being out and no coverage already happens. I'd be fine if the teacher did not reply to my emails or talk to me during dismissal as part of an organized union effort.

And at least with the above, I don't have to take off work or scramble for childcare last minute. Is it ideal? No. But it would successfully demonstrate to both Bowser and parents how much teachers go above and beyond and therefore deserve to get what they are asking for (or at least some of it).

A strike screws me over AND my kid doesn't learn anything AND makes me think things like "maybe we should just bail for a charter" or "well if my career is screwed anyway because we can't rely on schools to stay open, maybe I'll just quit and homeschool." Strikes are universally unpopular among parents except in situations where the school district is failing to provide even minimally acceptable conditions for teachers and students (i.e. I have seen strikes work in places where the schools are in such disrepair that it is not safe or healthy for kids to attend). DCPS has its problems, but it's not at that level, and the average DCPS parent is better off with their kids in school under non-ideal circumstances than having the teachers strike.

This should really not be surprising to teachers or the union. Parents depend on school. We don't need it to be perfect and most of us are willing to work with you to make it better when we can. But pulling the rug out from under us just makes us want to leave the district, it doesn't incentivize me to make it better.

You shrieked angry retorts for a year plus about OMG IT’S NOT ABOUT CHILDCARE IT’S ABOUT EDUCATION, so unless you’re a liar, these words should never appear in any of your arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All teacher's unions have enormous power now with teachers quitting, retiring, etc. I suspect a deal will get done fairly quickly. One side has all the leverage and it's not even close.

Then why no contract after over 3 years? If they have ‘enormous’ power.

Please, I encourage you to stop spreading misinformation. It only hurts us and ultimately the kids pay the price as they have been. And yes, covid was a part of that and the learning loss. I volunteered to go back in Jan 2021 but even still I understand the hurt parents feel for their babies’ loss.

But we can only move forward and we (teachers) need a better evaluation system, title 1 schools especially need more resources, we need to figure out how we can stop chronic absences and tardies, and yes teachers do need a raise. I know we are paid ‘well’ but I want to continue living in DC, I support better wages for literally almost everyone.

This is the insidious framing that teachers often employ, and it's often nonsense. They suggest that anything that hurts teachers will inevitably hurt students. In reality, the teachers union is looking out for the interests of teachers (as it should - this is not a criticism, that is the function of the union). If it also helps the kids, great. But that's serendipitous, not the purpose of the union's position. But you can't have a conversation with a teacher without being told "what's good for teachers is good for students." That's a myth.

Oh? So keeping great teachers doesn’t help students?
Attracting people to DCPS doesn’t help?

Because if you did not know the WTU includes SLPs, OTs, social workers, etc.

What is good for teachers is indeed related to students besides maybe pay. And the purpose of the union is connected to students because WE (teachers) connect it to them.

For example class size doesn’t impact students?
Caseload size?
If the teacher is absent having a sub in place?
Planning time so students can engage in well thought out lessons?
Actually being paid for after school time so students can enjoy more clubs?

you lost this argument when you kept schools closed for 1.5 yrs. We told you then that the consequences would be a massive loss of parent support for the union in the future. well, here we are.

It's the single worst thing that could have happened. Families who had the resources to pivot and educate kids at home or got them into privates for that time learned, hey, turns out I don't NEED schools and teachers as much as I though I did. And families who struggled for a year and a half just to function without in person school lost trust with teachers and schools.

I think the union and individual teachers see the small minority of very vocal parents who will back the union no matter what and fully supported closures and think they have the backing of families. They don't. For us it's a tenuous dance where I like our individual teachers but am still recovering from what 18 months of school closures meant for a our family, and if we start the year with a teacher strike, I really am done -- charter or moving, but no more DCPS.

Good. Schools are overcrowded anyway. Enjoy Florida.

[Anonymous]

Someone needed to reply to every post. I guess that was cathartic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are absolutely evil to be threatening to strike.

Could you provide some examples of other ways you would like them to advocate for a new contract?

Pretty much any way except that? But sure, you can keep on asserting that teacher’s unions can do whatever they want to advance their interests, and that the interests of children are irrelevant to the union. And if you say that, I will assert that the union is evil because they are using their power to hurt children. Even the threat of hurting children is unconscionable. The sad part is, most DC parents would actually support teachers getting a good contract - but when you make clear you don’t GAF about hurting kids, you lose your natural allies.

Would you mind building on your first sentence? What are some other ways?

I don’t really care. If WTU believes its only tactic is to threaten school closure on the heels of the disastrous covid closure, then WTU is a broken, amoral organization and should be dealt with accordingly.

No, no, no. If you demand they not use the means they have at their disposal, then let’s hear your Plan B. No more deflection.

I believe some alternatives were posted upthread.

[Anonymous]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/08/dc-teachers-union-contract/?fbclid=IwAR1sHPKvCEtWUGA0DVbeXAjog-vMWplxhcFPAYbQNlbwLiaCMx7cw4Q-YXE

Perry stein wrote this earlier this week.

Dcps says the sticking point is compensation, while the WTU says the sticking point is planning time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/08/dc-teachers-union-contract/?fbclid=IwAR1sHPKvCEtWUGA0DVbeXAjog-vMWplxhcFPAYbQNlbwLiaCMx7cw4Q-YXE

Perry stein wrote this earlier this week.

Dcps says the sticking point is compensation, while the WTU says the sticking point is planning time

At deal this year I was lucky to get one planning period a week because we were covering so many classes.

[Anonymous]

According to Perry Stein’s column, the prior contract gave teachers 225 minutes per week of planning time. Union wants more time. Chancellor says sticking point is compensation. Sounds to me like the union is trying to get more pay for teachers out of classroom time.