Sidwell College Admissions This Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

1) Suggestion: Only look at the last two, pandemic-influenced years. I would think Naviance for public high schools would be more helpful because there are more data points.
2) No parent who sends their kid to Sidwell or a similar private school is okay with their DC going to a college outside the top 50 -- especially parents who start their kid in upper school.

I'm always perplexed by trolls or interested bystanders who enter these chats. You act so surprised by Sidwell and private school parents. I am always surprised that you are surprised.

Ha! Speak for yourself. Some of us have to be OK with it because that's where things are heading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

I would say that some information is better than none, which is effectively what parents at Sidwell get. And while of course the scattergrams don't indicate hooks, the rejection dots alone can give you a sense of the landscape when you see how many high grade/high test kids with dots up in the top right corner get rejected at a particular school that you might have thought was a target or even a sure thing. And in looking at Sidwell's scattergrams in the CCO office you would see that they cover 4 years and not 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

1) Suggestion: Only look at the last two, pandemic-influenced years. I would think Naviance for public high schools would be more helpful because there are more data points.
2) No parent who sends their kid to Sidwell or a similar private school is okay with their DC going to a college outside the top 50 -- especially parents who start their kid in upper school.

I'm always perplexed by trolls or interested bystanders who enter these chats. You act so surprised by Sidwell and private school parents. I am always surprised that you are surprised.

Counterpoint: No parent should send their kid to any high school with an expectation of any sort of "college results" - absolutely no one says that going to a "big 3" entitles a kid to a certain college.

Let's stop with the nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

I would say that some information is better than none, which is effectively what parents at Sidwell get. And while of course the scattergrams don't indicate hooks, the rejection dots alone can give you a sense of the landscape when you see how many high grade/high test kids with dots up in the top right corner get rejected at a particular school that you might have thought was a target or even a sure thing. And in looking at Sidwell's scattergrams in the CCO office you would see that they cover 4 years and not 10.

And the problem is SFS CCO doesn't really point out how potentially useful Naviance is. Instead, they're wary of sharing it and they downplay it. If you don't know what it is beforehand, you might overlook it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

I would say that some information is better than none, which is effectively what parents at Sidwell get. And while of course the scattergrams don't indicate hooks, the rejection dots alone can give you a sense of the landscape when you see how many high grade/high test kids with dots up in the top right corner get rejected at a particular school that you might have thought was a target or even a sure thing. And in looking at Sidwell's scattergrams in the CCO office you would see that they cover 4 years and not 10.

Parents and students have access to the scattergrams under the supervision of the CCO. A student can look at any school at any time, that is not "none" - similarly, there is a whole host of alumni who are current students at great colleges all over the country who are more than happy to talk to your kid about their college and what they hear from friends and classmates about other colleges. Let's not make the false assertion that SFS students and families have nothing at their disposal to help inform the creation of a college application list or a matriculation choice down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

Sidwell senior parent here, and I can so appreciate this. Some of the conversation that DC and DC's friends have on this topic is nothing short of ridiculous. They spin themselves into this web about T-10 or T-20 or T-whatever schools. The appeal of a school like Sidwell or any Big 3 is supposed to be that you are surrounded by an ambitious peer group. But when that peer group becomes an echo chamber for wrong and misleading information, and there is no reality to counter-balance it, that becomes a problem.

Another Sidwell parent here - I don't disagree with the sentiment put forward and how it applies to large portions of the kids at Sidwell and likely the predominant chatter. However, there ARE indeed families at Sidwell where merit aid is very important and precludes the ability to apply ED. My kid knows this and always has. They consider themselves lucky to have options, but also has no interest in many schools others are seeking because they are turned off by the prestige perceptions and pompousness of classmates that are applying to those schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

1) Suggestion: Only look at the last two, pandemic-influenced years. I would think Naviance for public high schools would be more helpful because there are more data points.
2) No parent who sends their kid to Sidwell or a similar private school is okay with their DC going to a college outside the top 50 -- especially parents who start their kid in upper school.

I'm always perplexed by trolls or interested bystanders who enter these chats. You act so surprised by Sidwell and private school parents. I am always surprised that you are surprised.

Counterpoint: No parent should send their kid to any high school with an expectation of any sort of "college results" - absolutely no one says that going to a "big 3" entitles a kid to a certain college.

Let's stop with the nonsense.

Let me repeat: No family spends upwards of $200K over four years of high school so their DC can go to a college ranked 90th or whatever. Sure, families can overestimate their chances. But when you see how unhelpful CCO is and you see Virginia kids getting waitlisted at VT you tend to get a bit frustrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

1) Suggestion: Only look at the last two, pandemic-influenced years. I would think Naviance for public high schools would be more helpful because there are more data points.
2) No parent who sends their kid to Sidwell or a similar private school is okay with their DC going to a college outside the top 50 -- especially parents who start their kid in upper school.

I'm always perplexed by trolls or interested bystanders who enter these chats. You act so surprised by Sidwell and private school parents. I am always surprised that you are surprised.

As a parent who joined at 9th (from public) I would argue that the opposite is true. We switched our kid because he/she was learning very little in DCPS and (for example) could barely write an essay. I know about 5 other kids who joined other Big3 schools in 9th and they moved for the same reason. College admissions are fantastic from Wilson--there is a massive "diverse urban school" bump. If I wanted the best college placement I would have have sent him there. We are very aware that my kid's peers who stayed at Wilson will probably attend better colleges than he/she will coming from a Big3.

[Anonymous]

No Sidwell experience here, but have GDS experience. We were happy with the CC service at GDS and think they do a great job (honestly). But much of what is being said here about Sidwell resonates and is similar to GDS. The policies around transparency (no Navience, very vague hints at what is or isn’t reasonable) always seemed designed to thwart the most unreasonable, unrealistic parents, and only served to create anxiety and resentment in everyone else. I understood why they took that approach, but it often came off as condescending. But it also served to shield the kids from the expectations of their parents, and if we are being honest, that’s not always such a bad thing.

Someone above mentioned that people should understand that going to one of these schools will not give them a leg up in college admissions. I really don’t think that’s true. It does give a leg up, just maybe not the leg up you want. If your goal is HYPSM, then yes you are correct—its a crapshoot. But if you look a the full breadth of college admissions, the outcomes to the second half of the top ten to twenty are quite good, and that is not all due to hooks. People want to believe that they could have gone to Whitman and still gotten into Cornell, Chicago, WashU, Vandy, Tufts etc. (to name a few), but you don’t know that, and you would have had to take eighteen APs in the process. I think people need to redefine what success looks like. Attending a top twenty school instead of a top five school is still an excellent outcome, provided that such school is right for your kid, and when the dust settles in May, these schools will be sending a lot their graduating classes to those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

1) Suggestion: Only look at the last two, pandemic-influenced years. I would think Naviance for public high schools would be more helpful because there are more data points.
2) No parent who sends their kid to Sidwell or a similar private school is okay with their DC going to a college outside the top 50 -- especially parents who start their kid in upper school.

I'm always perplexed by trolls or interested bystanders who enter these chats. You act so surprised by Sidwell and private school parents. I am always surprised that you are surprised.

Counterpoint: No parent should send their kid to any high school with an expectation of any sort of "college results" - absolutely no one says that going to a "big 3" entitles a kid to a certain college.

Let's stop with the nonsense.

I doubt PP is affiliated in any way with Sidwell, as a quick look at the matriculation list maintained by CCO makes clear that admissions outside the Top 50 is routine.

Let me repeat: No family spends upwards of $200K over four years of high school so their DC can go to a college ranked 90th or whatever. Sure, families can overestimate their chances. But when you see how unhelpful CCO is and you see Virginia kids getting waitlisted at VT you tend to get a bit frustrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

1) Suggestion: Only look at the last two, pandemic-influenced years. I would think Naviance for public high schools would be more helpful because there are more data points.
2) No parent who sends their kid to Sidwell or a similar private school is okay with their DC going to a college outside the top 50 -- especially parents who start their kid in upper school.

I'm always perplexed by trolls or interested bystanders who enter these chats. You act so surprised by Sidwell and private school parents. I am always surprised that you are surprised.

1) You can't limit the scattergram to the past two years (at least we can't)...the only thing we can see on a year-by-year basis is the number of applications and only if it exceeds some threshold volume;
2) That's EXACTLY the prior poster's point...(more) public school parents and kids understand that really smart, talented kids go to a huge range of schools and in 99 percent of cases, the outcomes will be the same as if those kids had gone to "top whatever" schools. Maybe it will be harder to clerk for a Supreme Court judge or work for a VC firm in Silicon Valley, but seems like a small trade-off for not ruining your kids' mental health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

I would say that some information is better than none, which is effectively what parents at Sidwell get. And while of course the scattergrams don't indicate hooks, the rejection dots alone can give you a sense of the landscape when you see how many high grade/high test kids with dots up in the top right corner get rejected at a particular school that you might have thought was a target or even a sure thing. And in looking at Sidwell's scattergrams in the CCO office you would see that they cover 4 years and not 10.

Parents and students have access to the scattergrams under the supervision of the CCO. A student can look at any school at any time, that is not "none" - similarly, there is a whole host of alumni who are current students at great colleges all over the country who are more than happy to talk to your kid about their college and what they hear from friends and classmates about other colleges. Let's not make the false assertion that SFS students and families have nothing at their disposal to help inform the creation of a college application list or a matriculation choice down the road.

That was not our experience this year, at all. The counselor rejected our/DC's requests to look at them until the process was very far along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

1) Suggestion: Only look at the last two, pandemic-influenced years. I would think Naviance for public high schools would be more helpful because there are more data points.
2) No parent who sends their kid to Sidwell or a similar private school is okay with their DC going to a college outside the top 50 -- especially parents who start their kid in upper school.

I'm always perplexed by trolls or interested bystanders who enter these chats. You act so surprised by Sidwell and private school parents. I am always surprised that you are surprised.

As a parent who joined at 9th (from public) I would argue that the opposite is true. We switched our kid because he/she was learning very little in DCPS and (for example) could barely write an essay. I know about 5 other kids who joined other Big3 schools in 9th and they moved for the same reason. College admissions are fantastic from Wilson--there is a massive "diverse urban school" bump. If I wanted the best college placement I would have have sent him there. We are very aware that my kid's peers who stayed at Wilson will probably attend better colleges than he/she will coming from a Big3.

This is a really good point and one that I keep reminding myself as a private school (not SFS) senior parent who also has a younger child with a few more years to go at the school. It's really tempting to look at this year's college process for senior DC and think - what the hell - let's just pull younger DC, send to Wilson and virtually guarantee a 4.0+ GPA and that hardscrabble, urban admissions hook. But then I remember - I do want younger DC to be literate.

[Anonymous]

I am a Sidwell senior parent.

Looking at 12 pages so far, and stepping back, I think I see the global problem between some parents and the CCO: you rely on others to do the work for you. You probably always have, from the 'I need a night nurse' stage to present day. So it comes as no surprise that so many posts on this thread decry the "failings" of the CCO to do basic things that **you can and should've figured out on your own.**

You're smart. You're a double Yale grad. You were tapped for a political role in the ____ White House and now you're a Covington partner / lecturer at Penn / trade advisor. So is your spouse, fwiw.

Your background strongly suggests that you have the intelligence to synthesize the CDS data, those limited limited Naviance screenshots, your kid's scores, a couple recent books from Politics/Prose on higher ed, & several NYT or WSJ articles on the current trends.

Why is this process so confounding for you?

What I suspect is happening when you blame CCO for everything is that you subconsciously feel entitled to Princeton or Yale. So there's no need for you to personally contemplate an alternative strategy. And if you wouldn't even consider, say, JHU as an ED, then you're not going to spend your own time researching JHU-like options using readily available resources, both objective and subjective.

I get it; VIPs don't like to aim lower. Your ways have clearly paid off to get you to the top of the DC food chain. But stop claiming that this process is impossible and opaque and can't be demystified by mere mortals like yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been following this (as a public school parent). I have so many thoughts but will limit them to a few that will be (hopefully) viewed as constructive:

1) I have full access to Naviance and it is not very helpful--if anything, it is quite misleading as the scattergrams combine 10 years of data (we all know how the admissions world has changed over 10 years) and it does not indicate hooks. As a result, it is incredibly easy for students (and parents) to think the odds are much greater to get into specific colleges than it actually is.

2) The basic patterns play out in schools all over this area as they do in "the Big 3" (side note, barf) with regards to college admissions--it is an incredibly unpredictable and stressful process for these kids. However, there is a HUGE difference between kids at schools like Sidwell and those at large public schools: expectations. For all of the short-comings of our large public--and there are a lot--I think my (high stats, NMSF) DC really benefits from being at a public school because they see other high stats students who can't apply ED because they need merit money or because public universities are the only viable option. This REALLY helps contextualize the whole process and give the much-needed perspective that there are outstanding students so many colleges, not just the "top 50".

I would say that some information is better than none, which is effectively what parents at Sidwell get. And while of course the scattergrams don't indicate hooks, the rejection dots alone can give you a sense of the landscape when you see how many high grade/high test kids with dots up in the top right corner get rejected at a particular school that you might have thought was a target or even a sure thing. And in looking at Sidwell's scattergrams in the CCO office you would see that they cover 4 years and not 10.

Parents and students have access to the scattergrams under the supervision of the CCO. A student can look at any school at any time, that is not "none" - similarly, there is a whole host of alumni who are current students at great colleges all over the country who are more than happy to talk to your kid about their college and what they hear from friends and classmates about other colleges. Let's not make the false assertion that SFS students and families have nothing at their disposal to help inform the creation of a college application list or a matriculation choice down the road.

That was not our experience this year, at all. The counselor rejected our/DC's requests to look at them until the process was very far along.

Then I would really complain about this, specifically. Our SFS counselor was great about it and allowed - even suggested - that we check Naviance together at multiple points. There should at least be consistency on this policy.