GDS and Sidwell comparison?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Well, the kids I know who are in these classes are also excelling in English/Language/History ...so I am talking about the ones who are academically they are the top of the class.

“The kids I know...”

These kids are in high school. If you really know as much as you claim to know about them, you’re a frightening busybody. And even then, there’s still no way you know enough about the entire class to proclaim a small group as “the cream of the school.”

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to me....

Yeah, I don’t like mothers who arrogantly claim to know everything about a group of 120 kids and ignorantly proclaim some of them as “the best.” I try to be a bit more humble than that and embrace the SPICES. Some chip...

Step back - I'm not saying they are the best of the school - there are clearly many dimensions colleges are looking for and Sidwell does the same in it's admissions. What I'm saying these are the academic high-fliers at the school whose goal will more likely to be to get into one of the Uber competitive schools. There are other Sidwell kids who have this goal too but the % of these top math/top science track kids with this goal is likely higher than the % who have this goal among other kids at Sidwell. I suspect other students at Sidwell (not all) may have a more broad approach to admissions - and while they could also be Ivy material - they are happy to choose an SLAC instead.

Therefore if these top math/science track kids are predominantly applying Restricted Early to one of the HYPSM schools, there's a much higher chance that these kids are shut out in the ED cycle than other kids at Sidwell. That's it. No judging them to be better....but given their choice in courses and getting high grades across all disciplines, they are the top academic kids in the school. But that won't guarantee them Dec admission to HYPSM or other uber competitive programs.

But you keep referring to them as the top academic kids in the school. You have no way to know about that, and I think you're both wrong and exceedingly arrogant to say that.

Are you dense? The top math/science kids know who the top math/science kids are because they've been in small classes with them since 9th grade. Let's say the highest math level is honors algebra 2 in 9th grade. At my kid's school this is a cohort of 10 kids. They will go on to take honors pre-calc together in 10th grade. It's not like there is a stealth 9th grader who is taking honors algebra 2 in his own private section in 9th grade an no-one knows about him.

No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise.

FYI - you are talking to two different posters. I'm "step back" and did not post "are you dense". That was a different person. I don't agree with their tone, but I do think you must not have a child in these classes - it's a small group and they know how well each other is doing. It just isn't the case that these kids don't also excel in humanities. In fact, they excel despite spending tons more time on math work than their classmates could fathom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Do you think this is primarily a consequence of the school not providing colleges with information on how hard comparatively those classes are (thus, explaining the unweighted grades), or colleges not caring? Asking for a friend.

It's probably because the ones getting in are the legacy applicants and they are not necessarily the ones in the most advanced classes. So the top student (in top math track, etc) who applies to Penn ED from Sidwell is not getting in when 12 other kids have applied and 6 of them are legacy. Penn is going
to take the very good but not superstar legacy kid every.single.time. That's how the world works at these schools.

That’s what counselors are for, they should be able to recognize when a student fits what a university is looking for and help the kid get into the best spot.

yeah, but parents don't want to hear the reality---the reality being that their kid may be the TOP academic kid but won't be getting into the Ivys because of who else is applying.

What you're suggesting is Sidwell telling a kid: "Hey, I know James has a 4.0 and has taken Math 1-4 but there are 15 legacies applying ED to Princeton and 4 are URM. The chance of him getting into Princeton are slim-to-none. Duke is also full this year (with legacies and URM). We suggest he ED to Georgia Tech instead.
Do you really think parents want to hear this or it's the school's responsibility to tell them this?

In the recent past, Sidwell ranked every kid applying to every college and sent that ranking to the schools along with their transcripts. So the colleges would know if Sidwell thought that student was what Sidwell considered their “best” applicant to that school. Sidwell also counseled students on where to apply based in part on these internal rankings, however they did not explicitly tell the kids where they ranked. We know this because it came out of the litigation.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/07/08/suit-sidwell-friends-parents-shows-what-parents-will-never-accept

Whether they still do that now, I don’t know but you should ask!

Absolutely no ranking, no weighted GPA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
As someone with a high-stats/topmathtrack/unhooked kid who will be facing this soon, this is precisely what I want. One would assume that it is in the school's and the counselors' interest to place as many students as highly as possible; what might be affected by the various hooks and ladders people bring to the process is which schools a kid like mine would have the best shot at. "Penn is going to be hard to ED this year, maybe place your bet on X or Y" and so on is all one can ask for. I mean, what benefit would they derive from not passing that info along? My assumption is that the parents are likely to be the stubborn ones in these scenarios, insisting on EDing a particular school despite the odds being clearly laid out by a counselor?

Because no college guidance counselor is going to know what school is going to be tough in any given year. Add to it, for the types of schools discussed on DCUM, ALL of the schools are tough EVERY year. So you take your best shot and let the dust falls where it does,.

Yeah - but if there are 5 legacies applying early for school X, and those legacies include athletes and/or other very strong academic kids....the counselors should know that your kid is less likely to get in early there than at school y where there other applicants don't include legacies, URM, athletes applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In the recent past, Sidwell ranked every kid applying to every college and sent that ranking to the schools along with their transcripts. So the colleges would know if Sidwell thought that student was what Sidwell considered their “best” applicant to that school. Sidwell also counseled students on where to apply based in part on these internal rankings, however they did not explicitly tell the kids where they ranked. We know this because it came out of the litigation.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/07/08/suit-sidwell-friends-parents-shows-what-parents-will-never-accept

Whether they still do that now, I don’t know but you should ask!

Absolutely no ranking, no weighted GPA

I am not sure why you want to dispute evidence presented to court. But this is in fact what Sidwell used to do. Considering that the entire college counseling office were replaced, I would presume that they don’t do it anymore. But Sidwell would in fact handicap kids applications based on an internal ranking.

One of the family’s contentions is that the Sidwell Friends college counseling office gave Adetu a different ranking on the Secondary School Report for the various colleges, with her being rated “excellent” for Spelman and “very good” or “good” at the others. They interpreted that as proof that the school was pushing her to attend the HBCU rather than an Ivy League school.

There are different ways to complete an SSR, but Sidwell’s policy was to rank students on each college’s form compared with other applicants from the school, a legitimate procedure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Well, the kids I know who are in these classes are also excelling in English/Language/History ...so I am talking about the ones who are academically they are the top of the class.

“The kids I know...”

These kids are in high school. If you really know as much as you claim to know about them, you’re a frightening busybody. And even then, there’s still no way you know enough about the entire class to proclaim a small group as “the cream of the school.”

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to me....

Yeah, I don’t like mothers who arrogantly claim to know everything about a group of 120 kids and ignorantly proclaim some of them as “the best.” I try to be a bit more humble than that and embrace the SPICES. Some chip...

Step back - I'm not saying they are the best of the school - there are clearly many dimensions colleges are looking for and Sidwell does the same in it's admissions. What I'm saying these are the academic high-fliers at the school whose goal will more likely to be to get into one of the Uber competitive schools. There are other Sidwell kids who have this goal too but the % of these top math/top science track kids with this goal is likely higher than the % who have this goal among other kids at Sidwell. I suspect other students at Sidwell (not all) may have a more broad approach to admissions - and while they could also be Ivy material - they are happy to choose an SLAC instead.

Therefore if these top math/science track kids are predominantly applying Restricted Early to one of the HYPSM schools, there's a much higher chance that these kids are shut out in the ED cycle than other kids at Sidwell. That's it. No judging them to be better....but given their choice in courses and getting high grades across all disciplines, they are the top academic kids in the school. But that won't guarantee them Dec admission to HYPSM or other uber competitive programs.

But you keep referring to them as the top academic kids in the school. You have no way to know about that, and I think you're both wrong and exceedingly arrogant to say that.

Are you dense? The top math/science kids know who the top math/science kids are because they've been in small classes with them since 9th grade. Let's say the highest math level is honors algebra 2 in 9th grade. At my kid's school this is a cohort of 10 kids. They will go on to take honors pre-calc together in 10th grade. It's not like there is a stealth 9th grader who is taking honors algebra 2 in his own private section in 9th grade an no-one knows about him.

No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise.

"No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise. " Clearly you have no clue about Sidwell if you make these comments. I am not the same person who disagrees with you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In the recent past, Sidwell ranked every kid applying to every college and sent that ranking to the schools along with their transcripts. So the colleges would know if Sidwell thought that student was what Sidwell considered their “best” applicant to that school. Sidwell also counseled students on where to apply based in part on these internal rankings, however they did not explicitly tell the kids where they ranked. We know this because it came out of the litigation.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/07/08/suit-sidwell-friends-parents-shows-what-parents-will-never-accept

Whether they still do that now, I don’t know but you should ask!

Absolutely no ranking, no weighted GPA

I am not sure why you want to dispute evidence presented to court. But this is in fact what Sidwell used to do. Considering that the entire college counseling office were replaced, I would presume that they don’t do it anymore. But Sidwell would in fact handicap kids applications based on an internal ranking.

One of the family’s contentions is that the Sidwell Friends college counseling office gave Adetu a different ranking on the Secondary School Report for the various colleges, with her being rated “excellent” for Spelman and “very good” or “good” at the others. They interpreted that as proof that the school was pushing her to attend the HBCU rather than an Ivy League school.

There are different ways to complete an SSR, but Sidwell’s policy was to rank students on each college’s form compared with other applicants from the school, a legitimate procedure.

Maybe the school lie to parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In the recent past, Sidwell ranked every kid applying to every college and sent that ranking to the schools along with their transcripts. So the colleges would know if Sidwell thought that student was what Sidwell considered their “best” applicant to that school. Sidwell also counseled students on where to apply based in part on these internal rankings, however they did not explicitly tell the kids where they ranked. We know this because it came out of the litigation.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/07/08/suit-sidwell-friends-parents-shows-what-parents-will-never-accept

Whether they still do that now, I don’t know but you should ask!

Absolutely no ranking, no weighted GPA

I am not sure why you want to dispute evidence presented to court. But this is in fact what Sidwell used to do. Considering that the entire college counseling office were replaced, I would presume that they don’t do it anymore. But Sidwell would in fact handicap kids applications based on an internal ranking.

One of the family’s contentions is that the Sidwell Friends college counseling office gave Adetu a different ranking on the Secondary School Report for the various colleges, with her being rated “excellent” for Spelman and “very good” or “good” at the others. They interpreted that as proof that the school was pushing her to attend the HBCU rather than an Ivy League school.

There are different ways to complete an SSR, but Sidwell’s policy was to rank students on each college’s form compared with other applicants from the school, a legitimate procedure.

I am the parent and asked the school directly.
Maybe the school lie to parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Well, the kids I know who are in these classes are also excelling in English/Language/History ...so I am talking about the ones who are academically they are the top of the class.

“The kids I know...”

These kids are in high school. If you really know as much as you claim to know about them, you’re a frightening busybody. And even then, there’s still no way you know enough about the entire class to proclaim a small group as “the cream of the school.”

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to me....

Yeah, I don’t like mothers who arrogantly claim to know everything about a group of 120 kids and ignorantly proclaim some of them as “the best.” I try to be a bit more humble than that and embrace the SPICES. Some chip...

Step back - I'm not saying they are the best of the school - there are clearly many dimensions colleges are looking for and Sidwell does the same in it's admissions. What I'm saying these are the academic high-fliers at the school whose goal will more likely to be to get into one of the Uber competitive schools. There are other Sidwell kids who have this goal too but the % of these top math/top science track kids with this goal is likely higher than the % who have this goal among other kids at Sidwell. I suspect other students at Sidwell (not all) may have a more broad approach to admissions - and while they could also be Ivy material - they are happy to choose an SLAC instead.

Therefore if these top math/science track kids are predominantly applying Restricted Early to one of the HYPSM schools, there's a much higher chance that these kids are shut out in the ED cycle than other kids at Sidwell. That's it. No judging them to be better....but given their choice in courses and getting high grades across all disciplines, they are the top academic kids in the school. But that won't guarantee them Dec admission to HYPSM or other uber competitive programs.

But you keep referring to them as the top academic kids in the school. You have no way to know about that, and I think you're both wrong and exceedingly arrogant to say that.

Are you dense? The top math/science kids know who the top math/science kids are because they've been in small classes with them since 9th grade. Let's say the highest math level is honors algebra 2 in 9th grade. At my kid's school this is a cohort of 10 kids. They will go on to take honors pre-calc together in 10th grade. It's not like there is a stealth 9th grader who is taking honors algebra 2 in his own private section in 9th grade an no-one knows about him.

No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise.

FYI - you are talking to two different posters. I'm "step back" and did not post "are you dense". That was a different person. I don't agree with their tone, but I do think you must not have a child in these classes - it's a small group and they know how well each other is doing. It just isn't the case that these kids don't also excel in humanities. In fact, they excel despite spending tons more time on math work than their classmates could fathom.

I have a Sidwell senior. The part you are leaving out is that, as you acknowledge, it is a small group in those classes. The problem with your assertions is that you don't know anything about how well the other 100-110 kids in the class do in humanities classes, who also take the math/science classes a level below. Certainly you don't know about all of them. So you can't know that your small group comprise the top academic kids in the school, you're just applying a STEM bias to your thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Well, the kids I know who are in these classes are also excelling in English/Language/History ...so I am talking about the ones who are academically they are the top of the class.

“The kids I know...”

These kids are in high school. If you really know as much as you claim to know about them, you’re a frightening busybody. And even then, there’s still no way you know enough about the entire class to proclaim a small group as “the cream of the school.”

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to me....

Yeah, I don’t like mothers who arrogantly claim to know everything about a group of 120 kids and ignorantly proclaim some of them as “the best.” I try to be a bit more humble than that and embrace the SPICES. Some chip...

Step back - I'm not saying they are the best of the school - there are clearly many dimensions colleges are looking for and Sidwell does the same in it's admissions. What I'm saying these are the academic high-fliers at the school whose goal will more likely to be to get into one of the Uber competitive schools. There are other Sidwell kids who have this goal too but the % of these top math/top science track kids with this goal is likely higher than the % who have this goal among other kids at Sidwell. I suspect other students at Sidwell (not all) may have a more broad approach to admissions - and while they could also be Ivy material - they are happy to choose an SLAC instead.

Therefore if these top math/science track kids are predominantly applying Restricted Early to one of the HYPSM schools, there's a much higher chance that these kids are shut out in the ED cycle than other kids at Sidwell. That's it. No judging them to be better....but given their choice in courses and getting high grades across all disciplines, they are the top academic kids in the school. But that won't guarantee them Dec admission to HYPSM or other uber competitive programs.

But you keep referring to them as the top academic kids in the school. You have no way to know about that, and I think you're both wrong and exceedingly arrogant to say that.

Are you dense? The top math/science kids know who the top math/science kids are because they've been in small classes with them since 9th grade. Let's say the highest math level is honors algebra 2 in 9th grade. At my kid's school this is a cohort of 10 kids. They will go on to take honors pre-calc together in 10th grade. It's not like there is a stealth 9th grader who is taking honors algebra 2 in his own private section in 9th grade an no-one knows about him.

No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise.

FYI - you are talking to two different posters. I'm "step back" and did not post "are you dense". That was a different person. I don't agree with their tone, but I do think you must not have a child in these classes - it's a small group and they know how well each other is doing. It just isn't the case that these kids don't also excel in humanities. In fact, they excel despite spending tons more time on math work than their classmates could fathom.

I have a Sidwell senior. The part you are leaving out is that, as you acknowledge, it is a small group in those classes. The problem with your assertions is that you don't know anything about how well the other 100-110 kids in the class do in humanities classes, who also take the math/science classes a level below. Certainly you don't know about all of them. So you can't know that your small group comprise the top academic kids in the school, you're just applying a STEM bias to your thinking.

If you look at the list of NMSF, more than half of them are form that small group. Less than 15 kids tops half of NMSF list (total 16 this year). It is easy to compare Apple to Apple using PSAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In the recent past, Sidwell ranked every kid applying to every college and sent that ranking to the schools along with their transcripts. So the colleges would know if Sidwell thought that student was what Sidwell considered their “best” applicant to that school. Sidwell also counseled students on where to apply based in part on these internal rankings, however they did not explicitly tell the kids where they ranked. We know this because it came out of the litigation.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/07/08/suit-sidwell-friends-parents-shows-what-parents-will-never-accept

Whether they still do that now, I don’t know but you should ask!

Absolutely no ranking, no weighted GPA

I am not sure why you want to dispute evidence presented to court. But this is in fact what Sidwell used to do. Considering that the entire college counseling office were replaced, I would presume that they don’t do it anymore. But Sidwell would in fact handicap kids applications based on an internal ranking.

One of the family’s contentions is that the Sidwell Friends college counseling office gave Adetu a different ranking on the Secondary School Report for the various colleges, with her being rated “excellent” for Spelman and “very good” or “good” at the others. They interpreted that as proof that the school was pushing her to attend the HBCU rather than an Ivy League school.

There are different ways to complete an SSR, but Sidwell’s policy was to rank students on each college’s form compared with other applicants from the school, a legitimate procedure.

Maybe the school lie to parents?

I think that the way in which the word "rank" is being used may be inconsistent. The article uses the word "rank" but it could be interpreted to be using that word in the context of asserting that Sidwell "ranks" applicants as "excellent" "very good" "good" etc., and not in the context of providing a strict numerical ranking.

And then, perhaps when PP asked the school, the question was "do you rank students when presenting them to colleges" and the answer from Sidwell was "no" because the school does not rank the students numerically. If PP in fact asked Sidwell "do you qualitatively rate students against their peers as 'excellent' etc, as the Secondary School Report requests?" and they said they did not, that would be interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Well, the kids I know who are in these classes are also excelling in English/Language/History ...so I am talking about the ones who are academically they are the top of the class.

“The kids I know...”

These kids are in high school. If you really know as much as you claim to know about them, you’re a frightening busybody. And even then, there’s still no way you know enough about the entire class to proclaim a small group as “the cream of the school.”

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to me....

Yeah, I don’t like mothers who arrogantly claim to know everything about a group of 120 kids and ignorantly proclaim some of them as “the best.” I try to be a bit more humble than that and embrace the SPICES. Some chip...

Step back - I'm not saying they are the best of the school - there are clearly many dimensions colleges are looking for and Sidwell does the same in it's admissions. What I'm saying these are the academic high-fliers at the school whose goal will more likely to be to get into one of the Uber competitive schools. There are other Sidwell kids who have this goal too but the % of these top math/top science track kids with this goal is likely higher than the % who have this goal among other kids at Sidwell. I suspect other students at Sidwell (not all) may have a more broad approach to admissions - and while they could also be Ivy material - they are happy to choose an SLAC instead.

Therefore if these top math/science track kids are predominantly applying Restricted Early to one of the HYPSM schools, there's a much higher chance that these kids are shut out in the ED cycle than other kids at Sidwell. That's it. No judging them to be better....but given their choice in courses and getting high grades across all disciplines, they are the top academic kids in the school. But that won't guarantee them Dec admission to HYPSM or other uber competitive programs.

But you keep referring to them as the top academic kids in the school. You have no way to know about that, and I think you're both wrong and exceedingly arrogant to say that.

Are you dense? The top math/science kids know who the top math/science kids are because they've been in small classes with them since 9th grade. Let's say the highest math level is honors algebra 2 in 9th grade. At my kid's school this is a cohort of 10 kids. They will go on to take honors pre-calc together in 10th grade. It's not like there is a stealth 9th grader who is taking honors algebra 2 in his own private section in 9th grade an no-one knows about him.

No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise.

FYI - you are talking to two different posters. I'm "step back" and did not post "are you dense". That was a different person. I don't agree with their tone, but I do think you must not have a child in these classes - it's a small group and they know how well each other is doing. It just isn't the case that these kids don't also excel in humanities. In fact, they excel despite spending tons more time on math work than their classmates could fathom.

I have a Sidwell senior. The part you are leaving out is that, as you acknowledge, it is a small group in those classes. The problem with your assertions is that you don't know anything about how well the other 100-110 kids in the class do in humanities classes, who also take the math/science classes a level below. Certainly you don't know about all of them. So you can't know that your small group comprise the top academic kids in the school, you're just applying a STEM bias to your thinking.

If you look at the list of NMSF, more than half of them are form that small group. Less than 15 kids tops half of NMSF list (total 16 this year). It is easy to compare Apple to Apple using PSAT.

DP and I just want to say for the record that stalking kids is creepy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In the recent past, Sidwell ranked every kid applying to every college and sent that ranking to the schools along with their transcripts. So the colleges would know if Sidwell thought that student was what Sidwell considered their “best” applicant to that school. Sidwell also counseled students on where to apply based in part on these internal rankings, however they did not explicitly tell the kids where they ranked. We know this because it came out of the litigation.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/07/08/suit-sidwell-friends-parents-shows-what-parents-will-never-accept

Whether they still do that now, I don’t know but you should ask!

Absolutely no ranking, no weighted GPA

I am not sure why you want to dispute evidence presented to court. But this is in fact what Sidwell used to do. Considering that the entire college counseling office were replaced, I would presume that they don’t do it anymore. But Sidwell would in fact handicap kids applications based on an internal ranking.

One of the family’s contentions is that the Sidwell Friends college counseling office gave Adetu a different ranking on the Secondary School Report for the various colleges, with her being rated “excellent” for Spelman and “very good” or “good” at the others. They interpreted that as proof that the school was pushing her to attend the HBCU rather than an Ivy League school.

There are different ways to complete an SSR, but Sidwell’s policy was to rank students on each college’s form compared with other applicants from the school, a legitimate procedure.

I watched a coworkers two top kids go this. They were told by the school to apply to only three colleges. And the college calls and asks who the best student is, ie for a ranking. They may also discuss donations, parents, who knows!
Upper schools definitely try to steer students to a diverse and less overlapping set of colleges, because they need to horsetrade. Or they know an athlete or targeted student is going to take the spot- in a particular school and departments

You do not want to be applying to the same schools and majors as the shoo-ins, even for the shoo-ins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Well, the kids I know who are in these classes are also excelling in English/Language/History ...so I am talking about the ones who are academically they are the top of the class.

“The kids I know...”

These kids are in high school. If you really know as much as you claim to know about them, you’re a frightening busybody. And even then, there’s still no way you know enough about the entire class to proclaim a small group as “the cream of the school.”

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to me....

Yeah, I don’t like mothers who arrogantly claim to know everything about a group of 120 kids and ignorantly proclaim some of them as “the best.” I try to be a bit more humble than that and embrace the SPICES. Some chip...

Step back - I'm not saying they are the best of the school - there are clearly many dimensions colleges are looking for and Sidwell does the same in it's admissions. What I'm saying these are the academic high-fliers at the school whose goal will more likely to be to get into one of the Uber competitive schools. There are other Sidwell kids who have this goal too but the % of these top math/top science track kids with this goal is likely higher than the % who have this goal among other kids at Sidwell. I suspect other students at Sidwell (not all) may have a more broad approach to admissions - and while they could also be Ivy material - they are happy to choose an SLAC instead.

Therefore if these top math/science track kids are predominantly applying Restricted Early to one of the HYPSM schools, there's a much higher chance that these kids are shut out in the ED cycle than other kids at Sidwell. That's it. No judging them to be better....but given their choice in courses and getting high grades across all disciplines, they are the top academic kids in the school. But that won't guarantee them Dec admission to HYPSM or other uber competitive programs.

But you keep referring to them as the top academic kids in the school. You have no way to know about that, and I think you're both wrong and exceedingly arrogant to say that.

Are you dense? The top math/science kids know who the top math/science kids are because they've been in small classes with them since 9th grade. Let's say the highest math level is honors algebra 2 in 9th grade. At my kid's school this is a cohort of 10 kids. They will go on to take honors pre-calc together in 10th grade. It's not like there is a stealth 9th grader who is taking honors algebra 2 in his own private section in 9th grade an no-one knows about him.

No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise.

FYI - you are talking to two different posters. I'm "step back" and did not post "are you dense". That was a different person. I don't agree with their tone, but I do think you must not have a child in these classes - it's a small group and they know how well each other is doing. It just isn't the case that these kids don't also excel in humanities. In fact, they excel despite spending tons more time on math work than their classmates could fathom.

I have a Sidwell senior. The part you are leaving out is that, as you acknowledge, it is a small group in those classes. The problem with your assertions is that you don't know anything about how well the other 100-110 kids in the class do in humanities classes, who also take the math/science classes a level below. Certainly you don't know about all of them. So you can't know that your small group comprise the top academic kids in the school, you're just applying a STEM bias to your thinking.

If you look at the list of NMSF, more than half of them are form that small group. Less than 15 kids tops half of NMSF list (total 16 this year). It is easy to compare Apple to Apple using PSAT.

Sorry, now you are acknowledging that you're using PSAT scores as the basis for determining who the top academic kids in the school are? You are undermining your own conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sidwell college admissions a disaster this year in the early round...parents are up in arms. For some reason GDS and St Albans are doing better, not great but OK. It's a strange year but worth noting Sidwell College admissions have been in flux for several years.

Really? I know of at least 30 kids from the grade who got in to their ED's. How is that a disaster?

Most kids who took the most challenge math and science courses didn't get in to their ED/EA.

Why? I don’t get why this group would not do well at ED vs the other kids?

Because as the cream of the school, they are reaching for the stars and applying ED a single school with insanely low admit rates if you aren't legacy, URM, athlete. My guess is they will do fine in RD when they apply to several of such schools....one will bite.

They’re not “the cream of the school.” They’re kids who are very strong in science and math and who enjoy those subjects. There are other kids who are very strong students in other areas.

Well, the kids I know who are in these classes are also excelling in English/Language/History ...so I am talking about the ones who are academically they are the top of the class.

“The kids I know...”

These kids are in high school. If you really know as much as you claim to know about them, you’re a frightening busybody. And even then, there’s still no way you know enough about the entire class to proclaim a small group as “the cream of the school.”

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to me....

Yeah, I don’t like mothers who arrogantly claim to know everything about a group of 120 kids and ignorantly proclaim some of them as “the best.” I try to be a bit more humble than that and embrace the SPICES. Some chip...

Step back - I'm not saying they are the best of the school - there are clearly many dimensions colleges are looking for and Sidwell does the same in it's admissions. What I'm saying these are the academic high-fliers at the school whose goal will more likely to be to get into one of the Uber competitive schools. There are other Sidwell kids who have this goal too but the % of these top math/top science track kids with this goal is likely higher than the % who have this goal among other kids at Sidwell. I suspect other students at Sidwell (not all) may have a more broad approach to admissions - and while they could also be Ivy material - they are happy to choose an SLAC instead.

Therefore if these top math/science track kids are predominantly applying Restricted Early to one of the HYPSM schools, there's a much higher chance that these kids are shut out in the ED cycle than other kids at Sidwell. That's it. No judging them to be better....but given their choice in courses and getting high grades across all disciplines, they are the top academic kids in the school. But that won't guarantee them Dec admission to HYPSM or other uber competitive programs.

But you keep referring to them as the top academic kids in the school. You have no way to know about that, and I think you're both wrong and exceedingly arrogant to say that.

Are you dense? The top math/science kids know who the top math/science kids are because they've been in small classes with them since 9th grade. Let's say the highest math level is honors algebra 2 in 9th grade. At my kid's school this is a cohort of 10 kids. They will go on to take honors pre-calc together in 10th grade. It's not like there is a stealth 9th grader who is taking honors algebra 2 in his own private section in 9th grade an no-one knows about him.

No. But are you dense? The top math and science kids are not necessarily the top academic kids in the school. You are committing numerous logical fallacies to assert otherwise.

FYI - you are talking to two different posters. I'm "step back" and did not post "are you dense". That was a different person. I don't agree with their tone, but I do think you must not have a child in these classes - it's a small group and they know how well each other is doing. It just isn't the case that these kids don't also excel in humanities. In fact, they excel despite spending tons more time on math work than their classmates could fathom.

I have a Sidwell senior. The part you are leaving out is that, as you acknowledge, it is a small group in those classes. The problem with your assertions is that you don't know anything about how well the other 100-110 kids in the class do in humanities classes, who also take the math/science classes a level below. Certainly you don't know about all of them. So you can't know that your small group comprise the top academic kids in the school, you're just applying a STEM bias to your thinking.

So - this makes no sense. If you take two kids where both get great grades in humanities and both get great grades in STEM....but one kid is taking higher level STEM than the other kid. The higher STEM course load kid is achieving at a higher academic level than the lower one. Note - this academic level achievement isn't all that matters in applications (and definitely not in life success), as there are many facets to an applications (and life). And your child (in lower STEM) may wind up in a better place in your view in the long run....but it's just not true that the humanities kid is academically outperforming the top STEM kid in such a scenario. But go ahead and tell yourself that "most of top STEM kids" are not also getting A's in humanities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In the recent past, Sidwell ranked every kid applying to every college and sent that ranking to the schools along with their transcripts. So the colleges would know if Sidwell thought that student was what Sidwell considered their “best” applicant to that school. Sidwell also counseled students on where to apply based in part on these internal rankings, however they did not explicitly tell the kids where they ranked. We know this because it came out of the litigation.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2019/07/08/suit-sidwell-friends-parents-shows-what-parents-will-never-accept

Whether they still do that now, I don’t know but you should ask!

Absolutely no ranking, no weighted GPA

I am not sure why you want to dispute evidence presented to court. But this is in fact what Sidwell used to do. Considering that the entire college counseling office were replaced, I would presume that they don’t do it anymore. But Sidwell would in fact handicap kids applications based on an internal ranking.

One of the family’s contentions is that the Sidwell Friends college counseling office gave Adetu a different ranking on the Secondary School Report for the various colleges, with her being rated “excellent” for Spelman and “very good” or “good” at the others. They interpreted that as proof that the school was pushing her to attend the HBCU rather than an Ivy League school.

There are different ways to complete an SSR, but Sidwell’s policy was to rank students on each college’s form compared with other applicants from the school, a legitimate procedure.

Maybe the school lie to parents?

I think that the way in which the word "rank" is being used may be inconsistent. The article uses the word "rank" but it could be interpreted to be using that word in the context of asserting that Sidwell "ranks" applicants as "excellent" "very good" "good" etc., and not in the context of providing a strict numerical ranking.

And then, perhaps when PP asked the school, the question was "do you rank students when presenting them to colleges" and the answer from Sidwell was "no" because the school does not rank the students numerically. If PP in fact asked Sidwell "do you qualitatively rate students against their peers as 'excellent' etc, as the Secondary School Report requests?" and they said they did not, that would be interesting.

We did ask that, but was firmly told "no". But we don't know the details of the law suit.