ADHD trait? Sensory trait, or just willful and in need of continuous correction

[Anonymous]

[First, I hope I have a "right" to post here, per that recent thread. I don't have a special needs child but I am playing host to two children who I strongly suspect do have SN.]

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I am hosting two relatives who are 6 and 7 y.o. for the next few weeks. They are siblings and they both (to my mind) exhibit LOTS of traits of ADHD, plus sensory integration-type syndrome. But, I MYOB on that issue because they are not my own kids, their mom could be on top of it and keeping it to herself because it's private, etc etc etc. Fine. Let's just allow me, though, to stress that both kids present very differently from most children I know.

Which brings me to my question -- could it be a trait, or symptom, of a neurological disorder to make (usually loud) noises a lot AND not be able to stop or keep oneself from doing it? At age 6 and 7? It is intermittent, it is NOT a tic. It seems very much like a self-soothing / self-stimulation thing to me as a lay person. Like, Billy is clearly getting tired, and coincidentally he is screaming "POW!!" and making clucking and fart noises every 45 seconds or so in the back seat.

On the one hand, I want to be sensitive and not adopt an increasingly harsh, unforgiving and punishing tone with them -- if they truly cannot help it. OTOH, what they do is occasionally dangerous to others (like shrieking unexpectedly and distracting the driver of their car) and is often, very very often, inappropriate for the context (making a loud fart/raspberry noise in church).

Should I just stand down, since we're only together for another 2 weeks? or should I correct these kids who aren't mine (and whose parents let a lot of it go?)

[Anonymous]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, OP. It is the rare person, even with a diagnosable mental illness/neurological disorder who has absolutely no self control and is acting purely out of a seizure or "irresistable impulse." In fact, you seem to be asking us to define the difference between an irresistable impulse and an impulse that is simply not resisted -- and if we could do that, we could make thousands of dollars as expert witnesses and write incredible books.

That having been said, all children struggle with impulse control at this age, particularly when they are tired, and particularly when they have a parent who is not doing a very good job of parenting/restraining them.

And it's not really your job to jump in and parent and punish them for two weeks. That's going to confuse, agitate, and really cause an uproar.

So, I don't know if I've answered your questions. I can't diagnose these kids, and even if I could, it's not your job to treat them for the short time they are with you. If you can't stand their behavior, whether they are special needs or not -- don't invite them to visit. It's that simple.

[Anonymous]

Agree that it isn't your place to parent someone else's kids. FWIW, medication gives my son tics which mimic some of the behaviors you mention. They are worse as the medications wears odd.

[Anonymous]

It could be alot of different things, including boredom. If the mother is available for you to contact, I suggest you call her and ask her about the behavior and how she approaches it. If not, well, if it's not disruptive or dangerous, I'd ignore it. I would be surprised if she is pursuing anything with her kids, if she were, I would have expected her to let you know given that you were be caring for them for a few weeks. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I don't know about punishing a child because of annoying noises. I agree, it seems obvious that you should talk to the mother if its bothering you. And if you can't reach her, let it go. There's no need to try to diagnose these kids, its really not your business.

[Anonymous]

You seem to think these kids are either very bad or very sick. May I suggest a third possibility? These are normal children, of course not perfectly behaved, and you are not able to tolerate the mindless and annoying behavior(s) of young children. Farting noises, clucking noises, and the screaming of "POW!" are hardly indicative of ADHD and sensory integration disorder. Why not post this on General Parenting and see how many six and seven year old kids are engaging in such "special needs" and "willfull" behavior?

[Anonymous]

If the mom has asked you to care for them for this period, then I think it is appropriate that they follow your "house" rules. I might also suggest you tell them what "to" do rather than "not to" do. e.g. only whispering allowed in the car, hug a pillow etc Structured routines, clear expectations, rewarding good behavior etc will also help.

I don't think you will get a consensus for what is appropriate in public. There was a discussion here about what behavior is expected at a grocery store. Some posters felt strongly that it was unreasonable to expect young children to be behave in public and others (including SN parents) felt behavior that disturbs others should not be tolerated (i.e. remove the child from the situation if they can't behave).

[Anonymous]

Why would you adopt an "increasingly harsh, unforgiving and punishing tone," because a kid who is getting tired yells "POW?" You clearly don't have kids, or maybe your kids are just so different and you are so rigid that you can't handle this?

Your post is loaded with all sorts of drama and judgment -- "I strongly suspect" these kids have SN, "both kids present [note the clinical reference to pathology] differently", "the parents let a lot of it go." Jeez, it makes me want to sit in the backseat of your car and make farting noises.

You've lost perspective, whatever the deal is with these kids. No, kids should not make farting noises in church. They should be told to be quiet and leave, and lots of kids this young, whether or not they have a diagnosis, have trouble sitting through a church service ( a service that I assume is unfamiliar to them and not specifically a children's service). but farting noises in the back seat, not a capital offense.

They're kids. They aren't specimens, they aren't patients of yours and even if they have something going on -- which does not come across at all in your post -- they aren't a puzzle to be solved. They're kids.

[Anonymous]

OP, the behaviors you describe could be symptoms of something or could just be normal kid stuff or could be a reaction to being left with someone who they apparently don't know very well. Unless you are planning to contact the mother and ask how she handles this, I don't see any benefit in trying to determine which it is.

Instead, focus on the behaviors and sort them out in your head: the dangerous (sudden screams in the car), the highly inappropriate (farting noises during prayer), and the annoying (general loudness). You can't solve everything, so focus heavily on the dangerous, and mention but don't be harsh about the highly inappropriate. Ignore the annoying - it just poisons your relationship with the kids if you are on them about everything!

[Anonymous]

I like this last poster's suggestions. Call the mother. As long as they are with you, you can ask for quiet in the car.

Do point out the behavior you expect and not criticise what they have been doing: take the positive tack. You can say: In church, it's time to listen and pray with everyone else, etc. Because they may be in new situations with you, you can help them clue into what's expected. But don't be disappointed if they follow.

You may be right that they are SN kids, but unless the parents let you know, there isn't more that you can do. Bless you for being willing to host them since they sound like a handful.

[Anonymous]

I think it's fair to have whatever your expectations at your home/car that you feel are reasonable....w/o impeding too much on their need to make noises/stimulation, etc. Kids are smart......just look at kids who act out in classrooms, etc.....they know who's class they can get away w/ things vs who requires more good behavior.....It's the same thing here....they can discriminate between the two, and of course, they're going to do what's familiar and "try" things w/ someone new/different....if they can get away w/ it......and if it really conts....offer a time/place where that is ok for them to do....in the car (after you've stopped, at home in their room/outside in backyard, etc.).....then reminders in the car/church, should take care of a lot of that.....but u can't react in public places, or give in to them.....consistency is key.......most of the time, it does serve some kind of sensory need (you're smart to pick up on this)......but that's not an excuse to NOT behave.......I just don't let my 12.5 yr. old beat up on teh 6 yr. old b/c he has "autism"......that's not ok for either one of them.....good behavior and high expecations, always!!!
And as far as "willful" most kids are not "willful" it's patterns of behavior.....you would not expect us to stop drinking coffee or beer cold turkey if you've done it for over 10 years.....or lose weight overnight....u step down and being planning better menu options for food and cut down on caffeine/alcohol slowly...or u get bad headaches, w/drawl symptoms....which lead to slip ups/binges. So, think of it in those terms...don't ask them to do anything that you are not willing to do......but keep in mind they're kids/know them and what they can do vs. their breaking points......and you'll figure it out. Positive reinforcement, and offering incentives....small ones and big ones as they are capable of learning down the road.......it's a process, set goals and they'll feel successful as they achieve them, and they don't realize their learning in the process!!!!

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you for the feedback. I guess I didn't present my essential question too well. Basically, I need to know whether I should correct these kids or not -- what do you think?

(If I were to ask their mom, she's say, Huh? because she does not intervene herself unless there's a big drama. Like the kids just knocked over a display of glass jars in a grocery store. Otherwise ... no).

And yes, I do have my own children who are the same age and older. I'm not particularly uptight, I'm probably mid-range between hovering and oblivious. I admitted in my OP that I'm not a neuropsychologist and I'm not trying to diagnose here;

but I do wonder if it's wrong or cruel to keep admonishing these kids for, let me make this very clear, NEAR CONSTANT noisemaking. Not talking, not laughing.

I have them for two more weeks, in my house, as their caretaker along with my own children. I cannot hole up in my living room and not go out in the world. I am trying to minimize that, though.

[Anonymous]

choose your battles......if you only have these kids for a couple of weeks every summer, I wouldn't worry about correcting them, unless it causes problems w/ you/your family kids.....ie. your kids get upset b/c these guys "get away" w/ something your kids would not be allowed to do.......choose your battles if it's not a big thing.....but there is no reason why these kids cannot adapt to your style.....we do it all the time, you know at "grandma's" you can't jump or put your feet on the furniture! lol.......good luck.

[Anonymous]

My child does that too, and does not seem to be able to control it. But it's very different from my ADHD child's behaviors. So we are watching carefully and setting expectations but not yet testing.

[Anonymous]

I can picture a few scenarios.

1) these children are not happy to be away from their parents and with you and are purposely being very disruptive in the hopes that they will be able to go home.

2) they have some issues which may or may not be being dealt with

In either case, since I assume their parents are not in attendance, I think it is well within your rights to call the parents and say "I have noticed x, y, z, this concerns me for a few reasons (safety when driving, etc.). Is this something you observe at home, and if so, how do you handle it?"

I have a son with AS. I make sure that whenever he is away from me (only for school and 1/2 camps thus far) that I explain what his issues are, and how they should handle them.